George Asche, Speed Parts , Measurable Performance and the work begins.

[Semmerling]

Sorry for the delay, big storm up here. 

I will start by try to see if the vacuum port on the base of either carb is strong enough to do the job. That port is behind the large brass plug you see on the left hand lower section of the carb. That position my be enough for the windshield wipers. My advance is mechanical on the '34. In truth, to drop the windshield on the '34 one has to take off the exterior windshield wiper arm/blades and store them away. We shall see. If that doesn't work I will have to drill and tap a hew vacuum location farther on down the line to the head. 

[FarmerJon]

I could be wrong, but I belive you will find that the port on the base of the carbs is a "ported" vacuum source, ie. It only supplies vacuum when the throttle is open a moderate amount. Intended for a vacuum advance, it is not ideal for wipers. The carb might be able to be modified to supply manifold vacuum there, but I haven't looked at that option. 

 

The rectangular boss, cast in to the rear of the manifold would be a OK place to drill and tap a hole for the wipers. 

I am planning on setting up a PCV to encourage better crankcase hygiene 

, and worry that pulling that much vacuum under just one carb will make it run lean, and cause tuning trouble.

 

[Semmerling]

You are most likely right on both accounts, not enough vacuum and will disrupt air mix. 

Having said that....here are some of the very real problems with the Asche intake.

1934 DRs and the placement of the throttle actuator assembly. 

Unlike the majority of later models, the 1934 Dodge and Asche intake runs headlong into the following:

 

- Actuator of the 1934 does not cross over the top of the head to articulate the carb(s) and therefor the factory intake has a place that one mounts the actuator on the intake itself. On the Asche intake there is, as you pointed out, a mounting area. It is small and so conflicted by the "side wing mount" (shown in your photo above) that the original actuator cannot be mounted. That is, by design, most likely the same place that will be needed for the placement high vacuum line. The answer for all of this is that that very same provided area in the Asche intake is used only to mount a separate plate that addresses its location and having that area make room for a vacuum mount. Plates upon plates......

- The Asche solution as seen in various photos (few and fewer of completed and functional systems) do not provide for the dashboard mounted idle/throttle control. What we see from George and others does allow the car to be driven, but all of those I've seen thus far looses what this author uses allot....the hand throttle. Given everything else unique about the 1933/1934 we just deal with it as best as we can. 

- The Ache intake has no feature (boss/stud) that allows for the simple mounting of a throttle linkage return spring, a must for safety. This is less of a problem for later years where the actuator cross over the head, as the linkage can (and Asche does provide) a lever to accept a spring running back to some point on the head. but that is not the case if one assembles that linkage on the wings provided facing the hood. There there is no place for the spring mount.  Interestingly, George set my linkage up for the later years by accident, but I have opted to  I run that linkage there and may very well end up milling off the hood side "ears" to make room for proper solution for all of this on the '34. Why do I mention it in your question/observations on vacuum? Because the manner that I use to tap for vacuum and the throttle actuator will most likely have the means to attach a spring as well or, perhaps, on a milled remanent of those hood wings might as applicable.

 

Not sure yet, I am still taking the time that should have been taken prior to casting to work it all out. One either loves this kind of puzzle or one doesn't. 

Other possible considerations surrounding vacuum 

Run an electric vacuum pump (noisy)
Turn the vacuum mount windshield washer into an electric affair. 
My advance in mechanical. 

 

Best
 

Edited January 22, 2023 by Semmerling

[FarmerJon]

Looking at the picture of your stock linkage, I wonder if the cast boss on the AoK intake would work. It may be further from the carb, so you may need to make a longer linkage to reach the rear carb.

From there you would need to find a way to join it with the front carb. Maybe somthing like what connects dual SU carbs?

 

The hood side wings come off easy with a saw...

I am planning on welding one of the cut off tabs onto the center of the manifold as a boss to drill and tap to be my vacuum source.

If you are only needing vacuum for wipers, maybe you could add 1/2 aluminum carb spacers, and drill and tap one of those for a fitting.

 

 

With all you are doing to improve street performance, have you considered swapping in a later distributor with a vacuum advance? When I fixed the vacuum advance on my stock '48 distributor, it was noticeably more responsive and peppy. 

Unless the drive end changed over the years, you should be able to drop in a later distributor and plum a vacuum line from one of the carbs.

Edited January 23, 2023 by FarmerJon

[Semmerling]

Very interesting and generous response, all very much appreciated. You are doing a super nice job and I look forward to seeing where it all ends up. I worked with SUs when, as a younger man, I set them up in pairs on Pahheads and Shovelheads. Many pairs SUs and Dellortos  from Coast-2-Coast to as far away as Hawaii. If you add the air cleaner....do you have enough room to the hood? 

As you can see in the pictures of my Asche, the linkage was done by George and is on the block side. I am going to keep it there as it is out of the way and is, like the intake, a very high quality job. When he realized that it should have been on the hood side for my model year he immediately offered to swap it to the hood side. I  thanked him and left it as it is the pics. Why? I gets all that linkage out of the way and makes for a much cleaner presentation on the hood side. The reason I took so much time to fashion and test out a dozen potential locations "on board" this intake for a fuel log/and pressure gauge and do all the tight bends was to make the whole presentation look as clean as possible. Also, as we all know, the stock fuel pump can put out enough pressure for 2 or 3 carbs because they are such low pressure affairs. The gauge is there to insure that it is low and provide an additional "JyNormous"  horsepower  increase in all Static Racing discussions for the whole intake. As my wife reminds me, I have more torque in the wheel lugs in the other Dodges, 

Having said all that, here is the thing, the original throttle actuator pushed UP on that single stock carb and the linkage that George put on pushed DOWN. That means I was confronted with two choices....use the original actuator and deal with a clean reverse bridge, either by "lever and arm" or "wheel and wire"  or reverse the whole assembly, I did the CAD work for that already. Regardless...there are a couple of important observations using the Asche,

1- The whole intake is much higher than the original position
2. The Original actuator was set on the intake nearer the center (single carb), we are actually moving it closer to the firewall on the Ashce and, you are right, a new rod from the firewall lever to the throttle actuator is going to be made. 
3. In the original location and set up the intake joined the exhaust manifold so there was no space between the two,
4. We do have the Asche plate and that is a good thing, 

Now with the Asche, the intake is quite high. Aside from having much more space, that is an important improvement over the stock single and many of the other "flat" dually intakes in regard to post charge mix velocity into the head.  Add to that real headers that gives us much more space and allows all six cylinders to travel straight out before slamming into a high pressure single horizontal channel that literally chokes out the first two cylinders. There is much more room to set up a very clean and reliable throttle linkage system.  I don't see any issues on mounting the original actuator on a plate-to-plate AND tapping the required vacuum. Like you, I would like to see the wings go if possible even though that would make it pretty much a '34 intake solution.

 

Winters are loooong up here in the North Country, I get to go real slow and take the time to make this really look good. hang on, its coming, I am just getting the tranny done and then its full concentration on everything flow. Up here....over time....rust and ruin can become something incredible....enjoy the following about 5 years of winter work and do post your work when done. Some of these are 6 feet tall, endless numbers hanging overhead and nobody even looks at the rides. 

 

 

Edited January 23, 2023 by Semmerling

[40desoto]

Question:  might a lil off topic but I figured I'd post here since we are discussing the Asche AOK intake.

 

I would like to install power disk brakes on my car, would drilling and taping into the AOK triple that I have on my 265 suffice for the brake booster?

[greg g]

Probably, but keep in ming that additional carbs and custom cam grinds can have the effect of lowering vacuum in the intake.  When I went from single to twin carbs my vacuum went from 21 inches to 18.5, a third carb might loose a similar amount t.  To address that loss, a dual chamber fuel pump might be the way there is sufficient vacuum for the booster.  The good thing is vacuum is usually high when brakes are being used. You can also rig a vacuum accumulator to assure goodbraking reserves.

[Semmerling]

Thanks, Greg. 

[40desoto]

18 hours ago, greg g said:

Probably, but keep in ming that additional carbs and custom cam grinds can have the effect of lowering vacuum in the intake.  When I went from single to twin carbs my vacuum went from 21 inches to 18.5, a third carb might loose a similar amount t.  To address that loss, a dual chamber fuel pump might be the way there is sufficient vacuum for the booster.  The good thing is vacuum is usually high when brakes are being used. You can also rig a vacuum accumulator to assure goodbraking reserves.

Thank You Greg!  I know that I need at least 17 inches for the booster.  I might give it a try's. Some folks have mentioned using the vacuum from a fuel pump.  My fuel pump is installed but using an electric pump.  Can my fuel pump be used exlusively for vacuum?  is it ok to run it dry for extended periods?

[greg g]

Theregular fuel pump is a no go.  There are pumps with an auxiliary diaphragm which were sold to augment vacuum wipers.you would need to find one of those and p.umb it in to your booster.