Which came first, the.......

[bkahler]

.....bed wood or the metal box?

 

The next major task is the assembly of the bed.  I've got all the information from Pilothouse.org on what size the wood planks need to be and I have read Dave Erb's excellent article on how to build and install the bed.  Even with all that information I still have some questions.

 

Did the  rails originally sit on top of the wood or were they recessed?  Dave's article wasn't to clear on that subject.  If recessed then to what depth?  I kind of like the idea of them sitting on top of the wood but at the same time I'm hesitant to do so, at least for now.  I definitely want the strips proud of the wood surface but just how much is what I'm struggling with.

 

Was the original bed a gloss, semi-gloss, satin or flat black?  Right now I'm planning on painting the wood black but first I'm going to do some staining of a few scraps of the Cyprus lumber that I'm using to see if a stained and sealed finish might might look acceptable.  

 

In Dave's writeup he mentions that his angle strips were welded to the bed along the top edge.  Mine were definitely spot welded in place and I plan to replicate that either using my spot welder or using a MIG welder.  I'm curious how many other's had their strips welded along the top edge?

 

I'm also looking for suggestions on how to assemble the bed, i.e. on the truck or on saw horses or some thing in between the two.  

 

And the last question for the day.  Dave's article states the wood is 3/4" thick.  Is there any reason to not make it any thicker than 3/4", say 13/16" or 7/8" ?

 

I'm sure I'll have more questions about this subject and will add them as they come up.

 

Thanks!

 

Brad  

[ggdad1951]

Check out my thread on this below.  But to answer your questions:

 

Bed strips recessed but proud over all.

Bed was painted tthe same time as the sides (IMO) as an assembly.

Edge strips spot welded at the discretion of the palnt nad operator that day (IMO).  Mine were middelish.

If the wood is much thicker than 3/4" the headboard and tailgate crossmember won't fit right unless you notch things out.  You can cheat a little, but too much will be problematic.

 

https://p15-d24.com/topic/30202-building-your-own-wood-bed/?hl=%2Bbuilding+%2Bwood+%2Bbed

 

 

[bkahler]

4 hours ago, ggdad1951 said:

Check out my thread on this below.  But to answer your questions:

 

Bed strips recessed but proud over all.

 

So they were recessed to some extent.  I guess I'll play around with overall depth until I find a setting I like. 

 

 

4 hours ago, ggdad1951 said:

Bed was painted tthe same time as the sides (IMO) as an assembly.

 

I don't recall Bunn's book talking about bed floor color when the buyer had the bed painted the same color as the cab.  In other words if the buyer ordered the bed painted the same color as the cab did he get a black floor or a green/red/whatever color floor?

 

 

4 hours ago, ggdad1951 said:

Edge strips spot welded at the discretion of the palnt nad operator that day (IMO).  Mine were middelish.

 

So you had some spot welds AND welds along the top edge?  

 

I've only removed the angle strip on one side so far and overall I found about a 2" long section where it was welded along the top edge, the rest of it was all spot welds.  I plan on removing the strip on the other panel this week so it will be interesting to see if there is any welding along the top edge on that panel.

 

 

4 hours ago, ggdad1951 said:

If the wood is much thicker than 3/4" the headboard and tailgate crossmember won't fit right unless you notch things out.  You can cheat a little, but too much will be problematic.

 

https://p15-d24.com/topic/30202-building-your-own-wood-bed/?hl=%2Bbuilding+%2Bwood+%2Bbed

 

 

 

I had read your thread previously which is where I found reference to your wood thickness being .820".  My boards are about 1-1/16" thick at the moment with one side already surfaced (or at least an attempt at surfacing).  I don't mind planing them down, I just wasn't sure if there was a problem leaving them thicker.  My truck didn't have any wood in it when I bought it so other than pictures, I've never seen a bed up close to see all of the details.

 

I would like to assemble the bed (minus wood) on saw horses as you did so I can get an idea of just what all I will be dealing with when it comes time to install the wood.  

 

My preference would be to totally assemble the bed and then lift it on to the truck chassis.  I have gantry crane so the lifting and setting should be relatively easy to do.

 

 

 

[ggdad1951]

Part of it also depends if you have the ferd/cheppy strips from Mar-K or Horkey or if you have the correct strips from Midwest Military.  The ferd/chebby strips are "taller" and you'll want to play with that.  For MM strips I dadoed down 1/16" (measured off my old boards) with a saw cut down a little deeper on the inside of that to account for the little danlge of metal on the strip edge belwo the big flat spot.

 

I've never seen a color painted bed except black in my travels...I just know that it seems in tear downs the beds were assembeld and then final painted?

 

No, just spot welds, if you have fillet welds....sounds like a farm fix.

 

Boards being a LITTLE thicker you can deal with, but going to like 1'+ will start to show on how the bed sits on the frame relative to the cab and of course teh parts at teh front and back where you can't cheat.  Even on mine I had to do a small undercut up front since i was over 3/4" to fite between the side angles and the bottom return on the headboard.  Also the original boards were rough cut and not fancy wood either....just southern yellow pine from the mill and slapped in (since it was just gonna get marred up anyway).

 

With 2 to 3 helpers it's easy to lift the bad in place (even my 9' bed).

 

[Los_Control]

On my strips they are flat to sit on the wood, while the edge you would put a kerf cut in the wood for it to sit in. Same as the shovel strips.

Also they are spot welded.

 

 

So as @ggdad1951 says, depends on what your replacement strips look like as to how you will install them.

For example my replacement strips look just like the metal bed rails I found laying next to the dumpster and followed me home.

They are flat on both sides and will sit on top the wood.

 

 

[David A.]

When I disassembled my B2B high side bed there were traces of blue paint between the lip and the bed sides where the front of the bed was bolted to the sides. So it appears that at least on mine it was painted before it was assembled. I assumed the floor was still black but I’m not sure as most of the wood had rotted away. The side strips were spot welded on. 
 

[JBNeal]

On 3/7/2022 at 12:20 PM, bkahler said:

.....bed wood or the metal box?  ...

 

Did the  rails originally sit on top of the wood or were they recessed?  Dave's article wasn't to clear on that subject.  If recessed then to what depth? ...

 

This is the remnants of the original bed parts on the '53...the shovel strip flats are flush with the bed sill, and the boards are proud of the sill.

 

On 3/7/2022 at 12:20 PM, bkahler said:

Was the original bed a gloss, semi-gloss, satin or flat black?  Right now I'm planning on painting the wood black but first I'm going to do some staining of a few scraps of the Cyprus lumber that I'm using to see if a stained and sealed finish might might look acceptable...

 

 

This is the underside of that '53, with what looks like remnants of black paint.  The '53 is a Spring Special, so if the bed wood was painted the color of the bed, it would not be black.  I'm guessing that all boards were painted black on all sides before installation, then top coated after installation.

 

On 3/7/2022 at 12:20 PM, bkahler said:

In Dave's writeup he mentions that his angle strips were welded to the bed along the top edge.  Mine were definitely spot welded in place and I plan to replicate that either using my spot welder or using a MIG welder.  I'm curious how many other's had their strips welded along the top edge?

 

I have only seen the spot welded angle strips on the 6 examples by the house.

 

On 3/7/2022 at 12:20 PM, bkahler said:

I'm also looking for suggestions on how to assemble the bed, i.e. on the truck or on saw horses or some thing in between the two...

 

My guess is that beds were assembled at the factory on special tooling, then lifted and lowered into place on the assembly line.  Since yours can be considered a custom installation rather than mass assembly installation, then why not slap it all together on the chassis?  One thing to keep an eye on is lining up the bed side access hole to the leaf spring bushing grease zerk...the wood thickness may have something to do with getting that in the ballpark.

 

additional information - B-1 partial bed removal

Edited March 8, 2022 by JBNeal
hit the wrong button

[bkahler]

On 3/8/2022 at 11:52 AM, ggdad1951 said:

Part of it also depends if you have the ferd/cheppy strips from Mar-K or Horkey or if you have the correct strips from Midwest Military.  The ferd/chebby strips are "taller" and you'll want to play with that.  For MM strips I dadoed down 1/16" (measured off my old boards) with a saw cut down a little deeper on the inside of that to account for the little danlge of metal on the strip edge belwo the big flat spot.

 

My strips are from Midwest Military.

 

 

On 3/8/2022 at 11:52 AM, ggdad1951 said:

I've never seen a color painted bed except black in my travels...I just know that it seems in tear downs the beds were assembeld and then final painted?

 

No, just spot welds, if you have fillet welds....sounds like a farm fix.

 

Boards being a LITTLE thicker you can deal with, but going to like 1'+ will start to show on how the bed sits on the frame relative to the cab and of course teh parts at teh front and back where you can't cheat.  Even on mine I had to do a small undercut up front since i was over 3/4" to fite between the side angles and the bottom return on the headboard. 

 

Sounds like making them 3/4" is the most logical thing to do.  

 

 

On 3/8/2022 at 11:52 AM, ggdad1951 said:

Also the original boards were rough cut and not fancy wood either....just southern yellow pine from the mill and slapped in (since it was just gonna get marred up anyway).

 

Were they originally unpainted?

 

 

On 3/8/2022 at 11:52 AM, ggdad1951 said:

With 2 to 3 helpers it's easy to lift the bad in place (even my 9' bed).

 

 

Getting 2 or 3 helpers to show up all at the same time is the reason I ended up buying a gantry crane!  Besides, I'm getting old and hate lifting things

 

 

[bkahler]

23 hours ago, Los_Control said:

On my strips they are flat to sit on the wood, while the edge you would put a kerf cut in the wood for it to sit in. Same as the shovel strips.

Also they are spot welded.

 

 

So as @ggdad1951 says, depends on what your replacement strips look like as to how you will install them.

For example my replacement strips look just like the metal bed rails I found laying next to the dumpster and followed me home.

They are flat on both sides and will sit on top the wood.

 

 

 

My strips are the original style from Midwest Military.  

 

Interesting that you just happened to find bed strips by a dumpster.  I've never been THAT lucky in my life ?

 

[ggdad1951]

The beds were originally painted.  I saw little to no trace of paint left on the bed boards (even protected areas) on FEF at tear down.  hence my opinion they were painted in place installed in the bed.

[bkahler]

22 hours ago, David A. said:

When I disassembled my B2B high side bed there were traces of blue paint between the lip and the bed sides where the front of the bed was bolted to the sides. So it appears that at least on mine it was painted before it was assembled. I assumed the floor was still black but I’m not sure as most of the wood had rotted away. The side strips were spot welded on. 
 

 

David, thanks for the info.  This would seem to indicate the metal bed pieces were assembled and then placed on the wood bed frame and everything bolted together and then lifted on to the truck.

 

20 hours ago, JBNeal said:

 

This is the remnants of the original bed parts on the '53...the shovel strip flats are flush with the bed sill, and the boards are proud of the sill.

 

That's a good picture of the relationship between the shovel strips and the rear frame member.  I think my truck had maybe two partial remnants of wood left when I got the truck.  

 

20 hours ago, JBNeal said:

 

 

 

This is the underside of that '53, with what looks like remnants of black paint.  The '53 is a Spring Special, so if the bed wood was painted the color of the bed, it would not be black.  I'm guessing that all boards were painted black on all sides before installation, then top coated after installation.

 

That's a really good picture with some good detail info.  With the truck being a spring special we know that the sides of the bed were definitely NOT black.  With the black paint on the metal cross members this tells me the wood bed with metal channel cross members was assembled and painted black as a sub assembly.  I'm guessing next the metal bed was assembled as a separate sub assembly, painted whatever color it was to be painted and then the metal box assembly was set down onto the wood bed frame assembly.  At this point they were bolted together and the whole package was lifted onto the truck chassis.

 

From a factory production standpoint it makes sense, to me anyway

 

20 hours ago, JBNeal said:

 

I have only seen the spot welded angle strips on the 6 examples by the house.

 

I'm guessing the small 1" or so weld I had along the top of the angle strip was either done at the factory to hold it flat to the bed wall or a field fix by some previous owner.  Based on the size and quality of the weld I'm betting it was welded at the factory.  The weld wasn't really noticeable and it wasn't until I was drilling out the spot welds that I noticed it.  It will be interesting to see if the other panel has a similar weld once I remove the angle strip from it.

 

20 hours ago, JBNeal said:

 

My guess is that beds were assembled at the factory on special tooling, then lifted and lowered into place on the assembly line.  Since yours can be considered a custom installation rather than mass assembly installation, then why not slap it all together on the chassis? 

 

Yeah, basically you build two sub assemblies, the wood bed with metal channel crossmembers makes one sub assembly and the metal box makes the other sub assembly.  Put them together and you're ready to place the assembled bed on the truck chassis.  

 

I think you are correct in that I should assemble the wood bed and cross members right on the truck chassis.  I think building the metal box and lifting it onto the truck chassis would be easier, at least that's how I see it at this point.  There are definitely a lot of different ways this job could be handled but I have to consider the logistics of what space and equipment I have available.  My lack of readily available helpers limits me in some ways as well.  

 

 

20 hours ago, JBNeal said:

 

One thing to keep an eye on is lining up the bed side access hole to the leaf spring bushing grease zerk...the wood thickness may have something to do with getting that in the ballpark.

20 hours ago, JBNeal said:

additional information - B-1 partial bed removal

 

Yes, the picture you posted showing the orientation of the grease zirk and the hole in the panel helps a lot.