p24-1953 Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 i started with rebuilding my old front wheel cylinders. this worked good for two days untill the car started pulling to the left when you hit the brakes. attempt #2 so, i bought new cylinders (raybestos), put them in, bleed everything. went for a drive and they worked for a while but the longer i went the softer they became, after it sat overnight i had drips on both tires. Attempt #3 i pulled everything and one cylinder on each weel seemed to be taking on air. i thought it was at the supply hose. ordered and installed new hoses, put it all back together. rebleed everything had good pressure, took it for a spin two days later the pedel had to be pumped to get pressure. and i had a puddle at both wheels.... attempt #4 when the wife applied pressure to the brake pedel on the ruturn you could hear a hissing sound from the top two cylinders. i didnt know if it was a bad seal or if they were taking air at the hose so i pulled everything, installed a rebuild kit that i had lying around and put hydralic thread sealer on all hoses re bleed everything had good pressure. it was two late for a test drive so i thought i would wait till next day.... this morning i had two new puddles and had to pump the pedel to get pressure. rock automotive said they would return the two faulty cylinders but im about to give up on these things i am tired of pulling everything apart reassembling it , rebleeding, and re adjusting the toe and heel.... im thinking it time for the midus touch.. what could i be doing wrong? could i really have got 4 bad cylinders at once? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 Yancey...if you intend to drive this car often and especially in town..I would very much recommend that you swap over to disc brakes...you should never have to worry about the car lurching or darting to one side or another due to fluid loss, wet shoes etc etc... there are plenty of suppliers for this kit ...I do recommend our very own Charlie Akers..olddaddy..find him in the member profile section..he can set you up for sure... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p24-1953 Posted October 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 thought about that but i have yet to see a total price to switch over. i have read 400-1000 and that is a pretty wide spread. does any one actuall know what it cost to do a front brake conversion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 I think most folks are in the 550.00 between the adapters and all new components from supplier like Advance auto... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatS.... Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 About the same price as a complete stock rebuild. The only difference is that you won't have to do it again next weekend That's just my opinion, others have theirs. My car is getting Charlies kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Normspeed Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 When you find the puddles and remove the drums, where is the fluid leak originating? If it's pushing one piston too far out and leaking there, you might not have your major and minor shoe adjustments set up right. I'd be real surprised to find two Raybestos cylinders in a row that are defective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertKB Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 One suggestion I have is to double check the steel brake line between the two cylinders on each wheel. These are notoriously hard to get snugged up. Both ends of the line need to be done up very tightly or they will leak. Use a good brake line wrench for this or you could round off the nut. People don't replace them as they are hard to find or it is difficult to find that length of line and bend it just right. Being used, they need to be tightened really well. I have two cars with cylinders like that, my 48 and 53, and touch wood I have not had problems with leaky cylinders or brake lines over the last 5+ years. Hope I haven't just jinxed myself. PS - My cylinders were Raybestos also and I have had good luck with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm's Coupe Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 Also make sure your bleeder screws are good and tight, and aren't leaking after bleeding the brakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reg Evans Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 Same story as RobertKB. Over the past 5 years I've totally rebuilt the stock brakes on (8) '35 thru '59 Mopars. None are leaking or pulling left or right yet. Knocking on woodgrain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank M. Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 I had the same problem a while back,and finally found that New Brake Cylinders DO NOT USE THE SAME PUSH RODS!!!. The design of the push rods ( that goes between the piston and the shoe ) Are many diff. lengths ! That can drive you nuts. New Cylinders sometimes come with the appropriate rods and some DONT. Since the pistons are made differently ( by diff. mnfs. ) they might not work with the old push rods. A shorter than needed push rod will allow the piston to travel TOO far causing a leak and bad pedal movement,and pumping to get any brake action. Remove your drum and back off all your upper adjustment. If the push rod isnt still tight between the piston and the shoe---thats your problem! These types of brakes worked well for YEARS before Disc brakes came around. Hope this helps you out. Frank M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_Douglas Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 I second Franks comments. I have had the same issue with pushrod length. Also, I have seen reports of late of people have brand new slave cylinders leak in several different car applications. Due to this, I now send all my cylinders to Joe Way at Sierra Specialty Automotive for brass sleeving. I am doing this today in fact for a 1969 XKE. I had the MC done by him and it was a work of art. Very pleased on the Q & A on his work. James PS. I had a new wheel cylinder with a defect in the seal fail on the Desoto. I urge everyone to NEVER install any brake parts, even new, without tearing them down and inspecting them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm's Coupe Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 Yancey...if you intend to drive this car often and especially in town..I would very much recommend that you swap over to disc brakes...you should never have to worry about the car lurching or darting to one side or another due to fluid loss, wet shoes etc etc...there are plenty of suppliers for this kit ...I do recommend our very own Charlie Akers..olddaddy..find him in the member profile section..he can set you up for sure... Yancy, Tim is right. Converting to front disc brakes makes a BIG difference in todays traffic. There are several different kits out there, all run about the same price regardless if you get some of the parts locally or order complete kits. Here is a recent non planned comparison of the disc brakes on my 48 P15 coupe vs original drum brakes on a 49 first series P15 a friend of mine owns. His brakes are fairly new and they are adjusted properly with the infamous adjusting tool. Up until this recent incident he said his original brakes worked great and didn't see a need to switch to disc brakes either. However, about a week ago he was following me. We were both doing about 35 to 40 MPH down the street. We were both driving our P15's. He was unfamiliar with the route we were taking. I put on my turn signal a little early without slowing down so he'd know I was turning soon. But, I didn't slow down right away so of course no brake lights came on. Because I have disc brakes I could wait until I got a lot closer to the street we were turning onto and that's what I did. I barely had my foot on the pedal to slow down for the turn when I did have to slow down. My brake lights are electric and they come on when you just touch the pedal so they did come on and he did see them. However, when we got out of our cars at my house he said he almost didn't make the turn, because by the time I started to slow down, he had to really stand on his brakes to slow enough for the turn. As a point of interest when I did hit my brakes (just before the turn) he was about 2 or 3 car lengths behind me, much further away from the street we were turning onto. Now he says he's thinking about a conversion too, even though his old original system is working as it should. He can now see how much faster and better disc brakes work. My coupe wasn't even dipping down in the front when I hit the brake and made that turn, so I did not hit the brake hard and fast. As mentioned this test was not planned, it just happened that way. But......for all the people who say their original brakes are just as good, this is proof of the pudding that they are not as good as disc brakes and never will be. P.S. I'm still using the old original master cylinder. No other additions to the system except the residual valves for the front and back brake lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank M. Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 Norm is right! Disc brakes ARE better. Also the newer type engines and electrical systems and rust proofed bodies and etc, are better. Just how much of an old car do you want to drive? To some--the Ideal would be to mount parts of an old body on a 2008 chassis ,and away we go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertKB Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 Frank and James are right when they talk about brake push rod length. That is definitely another area to check as well as the brake lines between cylinders and bleeder screws. I believe your problem lies with one of those three areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 got my vote Frank..this is basically what I am doing with all the upgrades on my cars...the 54 is staying closer to stock and will get the disc next time I service the brakes...would have this time but found they were bad from sitting not from used up beyond...they rebuilt without problem.... I do like disc brakes, automatic trannies, cruise, stereo, intermittant wipers, AC PS electric windows...power door locks, remote keyless entry..got it all on the 41... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Belvedere Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 I had the same problem a while back,and finally found that New Brake Cylinders DO NOT USE THE SAME PUSH RODS!!!. The design of the push rods ( that goes between the piston and the shoe ) Are many diff. lengths ! That can drive you nuts. New Cylinders sometimes come with the appropriate rods and some DONT. Since the pistons are made differently ( by diff. mnfs. ) they might not work with the old push rods. A shorter than needed push rod will allow the piston to travel TOO far causing a leak and bad pedal movement,and pumping to get any brake action. Remove your drum and back off all your upper adjustment. If the push rod isnt still tight between the piston and the shoe---thats your problem! These types of brakes worked well for YEARS before Disc brakes came around. Hope this helps you out. Frank M. Thanks a bunch for the heads up on that potential problem Frank, I am in the middle of going thru my brakes and could very well run into the same problem and I would have never thought of that in a million years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Roberts Posted October 31, 2007 Report Share Posted October 31, 2007 You didn't forget the copper washers between the wheel cylinders and the flex brake hoses ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p24-1953 Posted October 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2007 well i tried again last night. i replace the push rod with the originals. bought a nice flare wrench and tighned the crap out of everything. went for a test drive and the pedel is a little soft the first pump but the second push will lock the tires up at 40. we wiil see if there is a drip tonight. do i just need to rebleed the brakes to firm up the pedel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Normspeed Posted October 31, 2007 Report Share Posted October 31, 2007 When mine developed the soft pedal at first pump, I thought it was air, but someone on the DeSoto forum told me it was adjustment. I re-adjusted for a very high pedal and the problem went away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertKB Posted November 1, 2007 Report Share Posted November 1, 2007 Soft pedal could be air in the lines and it never hurts to rebleed them. Also, as mentioned, it could be poor adjustment. If they are not leaking it has to be one of those two things. Good luck and let us know if they stay dry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p24-1953 Posted November 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 i ended up taking the car to a brake shop. i found i that i had one cylider that was leaking in the front but could not get a firm pedel. the shop said that the rear were not properly adjusted as soon as they fixed that i have a very firm pedel and the car stops great now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobT-47P15 Posted November 12, 2007 Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 Sometimes the outside professional people are a good thing. Kind of like getting a second opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splat1955 Posted November 12, 2007 Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 I totally agree.....I get a second opinion for just about everything.....but it comes from my wife...and I mean EVERYTHING! And I don't even have to ask for one! Sometimes the outside professional people are a good thing. Kind of like getting a second opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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