chucky07 Posted October 25, 2007 Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 Here is my thermostat housing..I ordered a new water pump today because i couldnt see water flowing when i opened radiator cap..with thermostat removed..so I'm assuming its bad... Is there a reason there is a plate on top of the waterpump with 2 bolts in it..blocking it off...and in my thermostat housing there is a plug in the front as if there were a tube in there at one time. I hope I get the right water pump ..they only had one for my engine.. thx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm's Coupe Posted October 25, 2007 Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 The thermostat housing you have on your truck is the one used with a bypass heater hose. With the bypass heater hose setup that opening with the plug on the thermostat housing goes to a fitting that sits on top of the water pump. Then a short hose connects the two. On top of the fitting for the water pump is another pipe that the heater hose connects to. If you don't have that setup for your heater, you don't need the bypass. Evidently someone just plugged those up because of that. The water pump and thermostat should be ok as is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted October 25, 2007 Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 A thermostat by-pass system is required for proper engine temperature control. There are two types of thermostat by-pass systems in use on Mopar flathead engines. The external by-pass system that requires an external hose connecting the thermostat housing to the top of the water pump. And the internal by-pass system that requires an extra hole in the water pump backing plate to work. It appears you have the internal by-pass system on your engine. When you get your new water pump compare the back plate to the one on your existing water pump. If they are not the same and your existing water pump backing plate has an extra hole in it then you MUST use your existing water pump backing plate with your new water pump. How a car heater connects to the engine cooling system is not critical to the thermostat by-pass as a car heater connects the same irrelevant of weather you have an internal or external thermostat by-pass system. Pictured below is first an internal thermostat by-pass system (what you have) and next an external thermostat by-pass system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reg Evans Posted October 25, 2007 Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 Here's what it looks like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen I. Posted October 25, 2007 Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 Sorry to hijack the thread. Don, can you post a pic of the battery set up in these trucks. I need to move mine under the hood. Reg, are those just caps on the bolt heads or the actual bolt head? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted October 25, 2007 Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 Allen what kind of vehicle do you have? Why are you moving the battery? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted October 25, 2007 Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 Sorry to hijack the thread.Don, can you post a pic of the battery set up in these trucks. I need to move mine under the hood. I do not have any truck battery pictures. One of the truck guys can hopefully chime in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reg Evans Posted October 25, 2007 Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 Sorry to hijack the thread.Don, can you post a pic of the battery set up in these trucks. I need to move mine under the hood. Reg, are those just caps on the bolt heads or the actual bolt head? Allen, those are just caps over the bolt heads. Got them from Sacramento Vintage Ford. The battery location under the seat is a pain in the ash and probably causes most of us to neglect battery maintenance. You could fabricate a battery tray and install it on the drivers side inner fender panel just like the cars of the same era. You would need to strenghten the fender panel to carry the weight too. I've also seen some retrofitted to the firewall on the drivers side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted October 25, 2007 Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 Ford trucks in the late 30s and 40s had batteries under the hood on the firewall. I wonder if a repro ford tray would let you mount it on the firewall? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen I. Posted October 25, 2007 Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 Thanks guys. I have a B2C and there is a remote MC reservoir on the driver's firewall. I could move that to the fender side. Right now the battery is BEHIND the seat and a pain to get to. I was thinking of putting the battery in a box (nicely done with dovetails) on the back end of the running board but it is a long run to the starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted October 25, 2007 Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 Kevin, It looks like you have an external bypass system and as such you need to find the missing piece as shown in Reg's picture. It looks, to me, that someone removed it and plugged the holes. You can't just put on an internal by-pass water pump and convert it because there is a passage through the block into the head on that setup. You can tell an engine that has the internal passage because there's a small bump at the front of the head. Allen, The battery in the trucks should be under the floor, in front of the seat. There is supposed to be a battery tray attached to the outside of the frame and a rectangular access cover in the floor (under your left foot as you sit in the seat). But I'm sure it's possible to mount the battery under the hood if necessary. As for being too far from the starter... If you use good quality battery cables that are large enough (at least 0 gauge) you should be OK. Many drag racers put the battery in the trunk for weight transfer. Here's a picture of my battery location without the cab in place to hide it. Merle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucky07 Posted October 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 ok..i see what you guys are saying about my water pump set up..but now I"m REALLY CONFUSED....ok..it looks like my waterpump has a block off plate on top...and the thermostat housing has a plug screwed into it..I'm thinking they blocked these off when they removed the heater...and they also put a plug in the rear of the head for the other heater hose... Ok...next question..I'm trying to figure out my overheating problem... Now Merle is saying that perhaps I have the wrong water pump and maybe that is the whole reason i have an overheating issue? How do i know what kind of water pump i am suppose to have? very confused.. thank you.....in advance for helping me to clear this up..as I have ordered a new water pump and it will be here tomorrow and they didnt say there was more than one kind..but then again it was from a cheesy littly chain auto store where the avg age of parts person is 16... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reg Evans Posted October 26, 2007 Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 Here's a photo of the two different head gaskets Merle mentioned. The one on the left if for the later engines with the internal bypass (maybe 53 and later). What is your engine number? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucky07 Posted October 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 my engine number is: *T306#IQI66663* the thing before the T is a star..and its on the block below the head on the front of engine on drivers side above generator... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reg Evans Posted October 26, 2007 Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 OK, that's a stock engine for a 51. Someone may have installed a later head on your engine if it has that internal bypass hole in the head up front. I'm not sure if that would matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bts_dodge49 Posted October 26, 2007 Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 Another quick question. I purchased an internal bypass water pump for my external bypass engine. I blocked the bypass hole on the back of the water pump and plumbed the thermostat bypass as before. Does anybody see any issues with this? Thanks, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted October 26, 2007 Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 When I bought the parts for my 1950 engine (T172) I got the gasket for an external bypass setup, but my engine has the internal bypass. Mr. Bernbaum argued with me that I couldn't have a 1950 engine because they didn't start using the internal bypass until '51. Apparently I am an idiot and don't know what I'm looking at, according to him. I finally gave up and let him win the argument, but not until I got him to exchange my head gasket with the proper one. I've also run across this same thing when I tried to get a water pump at my local Checker Auto Parts. I had to go to a '51 listing to get the internal bypass pump. I have no reason to believe that my engine is not the original engine in this truck, but it seems confusing that everything lists up thru '50 has external bypass and '51 and up are internal, yet my '50 is internal. Also, the 1950 B2C parts truck that I have also has the internal bypass setup. Apparently the trucks switched to internal bypass before the cars did, but because there are more cars out there than trucks, the public opinion is that they didn't change until '51. That's my opinion anyway. Kevin, Take a close look at the front of your head, just behind the water pump. If the front edge of the head is straight, you need the external bypass setup and will need to find the rest of the pieces and connect it all up again. If there is a bump up there, you have internal bypass and you possibly have the wrong water pump and thermostat housing. A T306 engine would be '51-'54 (I think) and would probably be the internal bypass setup. Does that help, or confuse more? Merle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucky07 Posted October 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 the front edge of my head has the bump..... now as to ease the confusion level.....does my present set up (block off plate on water pump and plug in thermostat housing) cause the engine to over heat or should it work ok like this.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted October 26, 2007 Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 My 1953 Desoto engine had an external by-pass setup. Not sure if the change to internal was a Plymouth thing or not. I am still a bit confused. I have been told that the backing plate on the water pump is the critical piece seporating an internal and external by-pass system. Using a goose neck from an external by-pass system on a internal by-pass system should work as long as the by-pass port on the gooseneck is plugged. Pictured below is Greg G's engine. his engine is a mid 50's engine and is setup for internal by-pass. However I do not see the bump on the front of the head. My 1953 MoTors manual makes no mention of a thermostat by-pass system for all Mopar flathead engines and it covers the years from 1936 to 1953. Does anyone have a manual that addresses this issue so we can all be informed??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byronb3b Posted October 27, 2007 Report Share Posted October 27, 2007 There was a really good explanation of all the water pump issues on the P15-D-24 web site under the technical column with pictures. I printed it off a few years back. I looked at it recenty and could not get the pictures to come up, maybe someone else could give it a try, even without the pictures it is a good read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reg Evans Posted October 27, 2007 Report Share Posted October 27, 2007 The photos show up for me on this link. http://www.moparforum.com/NAPAwaterpump.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucky07 Posted October 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2007 I just went to napa yesterday and bought the 55-713 water pump..I hope its the right one..I'll put it on this weekend.. they charged me 80 bux for it...I said..isnt that kinda high..and they told me it's retail is 111.00 ahhahaha crooks... hope it works... thx for the info guys..confusing water pump issues ..ahhaah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted October 27, 2007 Report Share Posted October 27, 2007 The pictured water pumps are both setup for external by-pass. The one on the left I removed from my 48 P-15 engine and the one on the right was removed from my 53 Desoto engine. I believe the area where I am pointing is where the big hole for internal by-pass would be if the pump were set up for such. The pictured water pump gasket is universal and would work for both internal and external by-pass setups. Please correct me if I am wrong. Even after reading the articles linked in above posts I am still confused as to the block changes that were mentioned. Who can post a picture of a head with the extra water port to match the gasket picture that Reg posted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted October 27, 2007 Report Share Posted October 27, 2007 I just went to napa yesterday and bought the 55-713 water pump..I hope its the right one..I'll put it on this weekend..they charged me 80 bux for it...I said..isnt that kinda high..and they told me it's retail is 111.00 ahhahaha crooks... hope it works... thx for the info guys..confusing water pump issues ..ahhaah Bought my new pump from Car Quest in 02 and paid sixty bucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucky07 Posted October 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2007 The whole reason I decided to replace water pump is because my engine got a little warm not when idling so much but when i'd drive short distances.. Someone said I should be able to see water flowing in the top of the radiator when it warmed up but I didnt....I really hope this meant that the pump was bad....or I will be back at square one.. Should you be able to see water flowing through the water inlet at the top of the radiator when its running? thx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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