51 B3B build thread - after all these years

[bkahler]

20 hours ago, Dave72dt said:

What's the condition of your front motor mount?  An old, hardened front mount and fresh rear mounts could also affect it's position.

 

All motor mounts are new.  My guess is the original motor mounts AND rubber cab mounts probably all collapsed at the same rate over the years which is why the throttle issue was not present when I first got the truck.

 

I'm hoping by the time I'm done everything is back in its properly design location.  Of course, the odds of that happening are slim, but I can try

 

[bkahler]

4 hours ago, Merle Coggins said:

Once you correct the clearance issue I would also recommend that you add some dry lube to all of the contact points on the linkage. I have found that over time my throttle will start to hang up a little. I'll get out my can of spray lube and hit all of the contact points and all will be good again for a while. 

 

Merle, that's a good idea and thanks for the tip.  I just happen to have a can of dry lube on the shelf.

 

 

[bkahler]

3 hours ago, ggdad1951 said:

yah, cab should sit "parallel" to the fraem (with the larger tollerances of the day).   I'll try to get some pics of that area on FEF later today.

 

That would be handy if you could do so, thanks!

[ggdad1951]

Actually I only have about 1/4" of clearance between the toe board and linkage...I had thought it was more.  So small differences will make a difference.

[JBNeal]

additional information - throttle linkage floorboard clearance

[bkahler]

18 hours ago, ggdad1951 said:

Actually I only have about 1/4" of clearance between the toe board and linkage...I had thought it was more.  So small differences will make a difference.

 

1/4" seems like a reasonable amount of clearance.  

[bkahler]

11 hours ago, JBNeal said:

additional information - throttle linkage floorboard clearance

 

It appears this issue is not uncommon for our aging trucks.  I'd hate to be driving down the road, hit a bad bump and have the cab settle a little lower.  Engine could definitely accelerate out of control 

[Los_Control]

20 minutes ago, bkahler said:

 

It appears this issue is not uncommon for our aging trucks.  I'd hate to be driving down the road, hit a bad bump and have the cab settle a little lower.  Engine could definitely accelerate out of control 

Thats why I said earlier .... I probably would not be happy with a 1/4" clearance on a brand new setup .... I would expect it to settle some over a few years.

If you start with a 1/4", then it settles 1/8" .... you are getting close.

 

I was curious about @ggdad1951age of their mounts ....  I'm guessing a few years & all the settling is done?

So 1/4" is fine.

 

While working on the throttle linkage, you might go with dual springs.

a larger diameter, then a smaller one the same length. just slide it through the larger one & connect both.

Now if one does break, you will feel the change in the pedal stiffness, but the engine won't run away.

[ggdad1951]

41 minutes ago, Los_Control said:

Thats why I said earlier .... I probably would not be happy with a 1/4" clearance on a brand new setup .... I would expect it to settle some over a few years.

If you start with a 1/4", then it settles 1/8" .... you are getting close.

 

I was curious about @ggdad1951age of their mounts ....  I'm guessing a few years & all the settling is done?

So 1/4" is fine.

 

While working on the throttle linkage, you might go with dual springs.

a larger diameter, then a smaller one the same length. just slide it through the larger one & connect both.

Now if one does break, you will feel the change in the pedal stiffness, but the engine won't run away.

 

 

All new mounts....about 12 or 13 years ago so should be settled by now I hope!  I DID have some spacers I dropped in there as well.

[bkahler]

Here's a weekend update.

 

I did an inspection of the engine looking for any signs of leaks and found one, the rear valve cover is weeping oil at the lower left corner.  Not sure what's up with that but I'll take a peak at it sometime this week.

 

I finished adjusting the parking brake and connected the pull handle cable.  Seems to hold the truck from moving just fine.  I still need to install a return spring on the lower pull lever and will do so once I source a spring.

 

I found a nice 2-1/2" x 12 piece of steel round bar that I'll use to make the shims for the cab mounts.  I've started taking preliminary measurements but I'm finding it rather difficult to determine where to take measurements from.  Right now it looks like I need to raise the drivers front 5/16" and the passenger front 3/8".  I haven't really come up with numbers for the rear mounts yet.  I figured I would wait until the fronts are installed and then lift the rear to see what looked right.

 

I've been looking for a switch to use as a shutoff for the electric fuel pump so I don't have to let it run all the time.  This is what I found.  It's period correct and I think it will look just fine attached to the bottom of the dash.  I'll dismantle the switch and soak it in Evaporust and then re-assemble.

 

 

 

 

I worked my way through installing the 3-point seat belts.  I'm pleased with how they look and appreciate other forum members having posted their installations previously.  It's great to have reference pictures for tasks like this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Brad

[bkahler]

On 3/9/2023 at 11:06 AM, Los_Control said:

Thats why I said earlier .... I probably would not be happy with a 1/4" clearance on a brand new setup .... I would expect it to settle some over a few years.

If you start with a 1/4", then it settles 1/8" .... you are getting close.

 

I was curious about @ggdad1951age of their mounts ....  I'm guessing a few years & all the settling is done?

So 1/4" is fine.

 

While working on the throttle linkage, you might go with dual springs.

a larger diameter, then a smaller one the same length. just slide it through the larger one & connect both.

Now if one does break, you will feel the change in the pedal stiffness, but the engine won't run away.

 

Based on current measurements I'll likely end up with around 5/32" of clearance, possibly a little more.  All mounts, engine and cab are new.  

 

I do have dual springs installed, the original main spring that runs under the cab toe board and one on each carburetor.

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by bkahler

[bkahler]

I've been taking some measurements comparing the cab position to the top of the frame and now I have questions

 

Looking at this first drawing, the dimension I have circled in red 54-1/2" is the first number I established.  I used a digital angle finder to find a flat plane along the top of the frame relative to how it's sitting and zeroed it out.  I then set a long horizontal straight edge on the roof and a straight edge on the frame rails side to side along the back of the cab.  The straight edge on top of the cab is pointing to the rear and using the angle finder I got the straight edge to run parallel to the frame.  I then measured from the bottom of the straight edge on the frame to the bottom of the straight edge on top of the cab.  I came up with 54-9/16".  I'd say that's pretty close to spot on.  

 

 

 

 

In this next picture there is a dimension of 30-3/4" at the front center of the cowl at what appears to be the very tip just in front of the air vent.  That's my best guess anyway.  Setting up to measure this one was a little trickier.  

 

 

 

I set the level to match the zero angle that I used for the frame at the rear.  By ensuring the level matched that angle any dimension measured from the frame should be in the same reference as the 54-9/16" measurement I obtained earlier.

 

I then measured from the top of the frame to the top of the aluminum bar and then from the top of the aluminum bar to the bottom of the level.  That measurement was 30-1/4".  That's telling me I need to raise the front of the cab by 1/2" to bring it up to what the drawing dimension of 30-3/4".  

 

My gut feeling is this would be to much.  In the picture above I circled a 1-7/8" dimension that is supposed to be from the top of the frame to some point around the zero line of the cab.  My problem is I can't seem to figure out where the point on the cab is being referenced at.  

 

I'm open to suggestion on what it might be.  In the mean time I am going to try to slowly jack up the front of the cab to see what happens when I try to reach the 30-3/4" dimension.  

 

 

 

 

[Los_Control]

OH MY!

[Los_Control]

Sorry for being sarcastic, I just wonder if we are over thinking this.

 

In another thread you asked about body installation order. .... I did skip doors because I never removed mine.

They are the true starting point for you. ... You want a decent gap at the top and rear. You want them to open close latch properly.

 

My truck took a decent hit in the rear fender, lower cab .... I'm thinking the hinge at the upper cowl took a hit .... I'm going to need a hammer to fix this.

Just pointing out, you get the door set first with the cowl, roof, cab ..... then you can adjust the fenders to it.

 

This door is not correct at all, it is a truck 70 years old .... needs some tlc & a hammer. ..... That is a future Fred problem.

It opens & closes ... I will repair before paint.

[JBNeal]

I reckon that 1-7/8" is the distance from top of frame rail to bottom of cab floor...if ya have the top of the cab set OK, then verify that number at the rear and front of the cab.  Another check is the 5-1/4" dimension, as the door bottom lines up with the bottom of the cab...not easy to measure, but doable.

[bkahler]

 

This morning I fabricated two spacers for the front cab mounts.  I didn't capture any pictures but they were 2-1/2" in diameter and 5/16" thick.  You can see the final results in the pictures below.  All four corners of the cab are now tightened down.  

 

Passenger side:

 

Pedal linkage clearance.  Clearance worked out to about 5/16" at the throttle arm closest approach to the toe board.  

 

Drivers side:

 

 

The gaps between the cab and the frame support arms is just slightly over 1/4" on each side.  

 

The throttle linkage works nice and smooth now.  I plan on replacing the temporary wire inside the distributor with a proper replacement.  After that I plan to go for another engine start to see if I can get the idle down.  In looking through the manual I haven't found what the idle speed is supposed to be.  Would someone clue me in as to what the idle rpm should be?

 

 

 

[Los_Control]

Kind of common to want 500 rpm idle for manual transmission .... 700-1k for a automatic transmission.

 

The cool thing on these old motors, the slower you can run them at idle, the cooler they sound.

Just depends on how well your carb is setup & condition of your motor.

 

Kinda like doing one of the old dances to see how low can you go to get under the cross pole.

350-400 rpm will sound really cool at idle .... if your engine can handle it.

Maybe you would be better off at 500-750 .... get straight to work.

 

Just thinking the manual does list specific rpm at idle .... Not everyone follows them ... key is, how low can you go?

Assuming you still have good oil pressure, you choose your idle speed.

[bkahler]

21 hours ago, Los_Control said:

Sorry for being sarcastic, I just wonder if we are over thinking this.

 

In another thread you asked about body installation order. .... I did skip doors because I never removed mine.

They are the true starting point for you. ... You want a decent gap at the top and rear. You want them to open close latch properly.

 

My truck took a decent hit in the rear fender, lower cab .... I'm thinking the hinge at the upper cowl took a hit .... I'm going to need a hammer to fix this.

Just pointing out, you get the door set first with the cowl, roof, cab ..... then you can adjust the fenders to it.

 

This door is not correct at all, it is a truck 70 years old .... needs some tlc & a hammer. ..... That is a future Fred problem.

It opens & closes ... I will repair before paint.

 

 

I wouldn't say we're over thinking it.  It was pretty obvious I had a problem since the throttle linkage was binding on the toe board.  Knowing how much and where to raise the cab needed to be worked through. 

 

I did notice as I was jacking the front of the cab up off of the frame mounts, it was obvious that the frame was twisting slightly as the weight was removed.  Then when I lowered the cab back down you could see the frame twist.  There was no movement of the arm support relative to the frame, it was the frame itself that was twisting.  Not a lot but enough to cause the droop.

 

I guess I got lucky with my cab and doors, there was no damage to them.  Actually even the fenders and front grille were in great shape.  However he rear fenders and bed walls are another matter 

 

[bkahler]

2 minutes ago, Los_Control said:

Kind of common to want 500 rpm idle for manual transmission .... 700-1k for a automatic transmission.

 

The cool thing on these old motors, the slower you can run them at idle, the cooler they sound.

Just depends on how well your carb is setup & condition of your motor.

 

Kinda like doing one of the old dances to see how low can you go to get under the cross pole.

350-400 rpm will sound really cool at idle .... if your engine can handle it.

Maybe you would be better off at 500-750 .... get straight to work.

 

Just thinking the manual does list specific rpm at idle .... Not everyone follows them ... key is, how low can you go?

Assuming you still have good oil pressure, you choose your idle speed.

 

Thanks for the info.  With dual carbs it might be a challenge to get it down to 500.  Right now with the idle stop screws backed all the way out, the idle is 1100.  I hope to play with the carb adjustments sometime this weekend.

 

 

[bkahler]

18 hours ago, JBNeal said:

I reckon that 1-7/8" is the distance from top of frame rail to bottom of cab floor...if ya have the top of the cab set OK, then verify that number at the rear and front of the cab.  Another check is the 5-1/4" dimension, as the door bottom lines up with the bottom of the cab...not easy to measure, but doable.

 

After the spacers were installed and everything tightened down, measuring in the center of the cab to the frame I get about 2" on the passenger side and about 1-7/8" on the drivers side.

 

I think once I start installing the doors and body panels I'll know more as to whether or not I have to make any more adjustments.  At least for now I have functional throttle linkage!

 

[Los_Control]

Exactly .... your engine does not represent the standard engine in the manual.

As long as you are getting adequate oil pressure at idle  .... 10-15 psi? Some get worse.

Just will be a tuning thing where you find your engine likes to run.

 

You want a quick response with the gas pedal & a low idle .... you will have to search for that.

 

 

I need to apologize for a earlier post .... I said I never removed my doors. Actually I did remove them after I installed the front fenders.. .... Just saying I matched the fenders to the original doors ...... Then later removed the doors & worked on them .... yeah that again is a future Fred problem .... I will adjust them better then.

Just now, bkahler said:

I think once I start installing the doors

Exactly, set the doors to the cab .... it does not change. Then the front nose/fenders. ..... you will know what spacers you need. .... If any.

 

Really seems like in the best of situations that throttle linkage is really close to the original toe boards.

I'm going to clearance it with a hammer & never think about it again .... My decision not yours.

[bkahler]

Finished up the parking brake today.  I'm quite pleased with out it came out.  Time to move on to a few other small details before driving to the painters...

 

 

[bkahler]

18 hours ago, Los_Control said:

Exactly .... your engine does not represent the standard engine in the manual.

As long as you are getting adequate oil pressure at idle  .... 10-15 psi? Some get worse.

Just will be a tuning thing where you find your engine likes to run.

 

You want a quick response with the gas pedal & a low idle .... you will have to search for that.

 

All that makes sense.  Over the next couple of weeks I hope to get time to tinker with the carburetor adjustments.  Stay tuned for that

 

 

18 hours ago, Los_Control said:

 

I need to apologize for a earlier post .... I said I never removed my doors. Actually I did remove them after I installed the front fenders.. .... Just saying I matched the fenders to the original doors ...... Then later removed the doors & worked on them .... yeah that again is a future Fred problem .... I will adjust them better then.

Exactly, set the doors to the cab .... it does not change. Then the front nose/fenders. ..... you will know what spacers you need. .... If any.

 

No worries.  Once I start I'm sure it will be an evolving project where situations will occur that will cause me to deviate from whatever plan I start with.

 

 

18 hours ago, Los_Control said:

Really seems like in the best of situations that throttle linkage is really close to the original toe boards.

I'm going to clearance it with a hammer & never think about it again .... My decision not yours.

 

Somehow I just can't bring myself to take a hammer to something that I've spent years trying to make new again 

 

[Los_Control]

1 hour ago, bkahler said:

Somehow I just can't bring myself to take a hammer to something that I've spent years trying to make new again 

I hear ya,  I make it sound a little crude. 

 

I have my wood stump ... several actually. I will use a grinder with 36 grit paper .... or possibly my dremel tool to carve out a small mold for the indentation. Then carefully use my body hammer and form the panel to the mold .... probably take me a hour to make the mold, another hour to pound & smooth the panel.

Just more fun to say .... Smack that thing with a hammer it will be fine!

 

To be honest it is probably a waste of time for anyone to do it.

For me I want to do it for a learning experience.  What better place to practice then the floor that will never be seen.

Someday I may want to do the same thing on a exposed panel that we will see.

Also I'm not changing my mounts at this time .... they look fine, may be a mistake .... a little extra clearance for me is not a bad idea.

 

Glad to see you are making progress. It is all looking great.

My time right now is taken up by the garden. Kinda sucks that it takes all my time for a couple weeks in early spring.

But once all is in place it only takes a few minutes a day to keep things going .... no complaints.

 

Thought I was going to get my alternator delivered today. It was in Lubbock yesterday ... should be out for delivery today.

It currently is in Indiana ?

[bkahler]

On 3/17/2023 at 4:10 PM, Los_Control said:

I hear ya,  I make it sound a little crude. 

 

I have my wood stump ... several actually. I will use a grinder with 36 grit paper .... or possibly my dremel tool to carve out a small mold for the indentation. Then carefully use my body hammer and form the panel to the mold .... probably take me a hour to make the mold, another hour to pound & smooth the panel.

Just more fun to say .... Smack that thing with a hammer it will be fine!

 

I wish I could say I don't have any more stumps on my property because I just had 91 stumps ground, unfortunately there are still more to go.