51 B3B build thread - after all these years

[bkahler]

More progress on the bed panels.  First coat of primer on both and he's starting to add filler for all of the rust pits.  

 

 

 

[David A.]

Looking good! Those bed sides were the hardest part of my truck. It was a very long and tedious process. The worst part is that if you do it right, no one will ever know how much time and effort you have invested in it!!!

[bkahler]

Bed panel repairs are moving slowly but still moving

 

These pictures were taken a couple of weeks ago.  He's working on getting the last section flat.  I believe the panels are now ready have primer applied.  The weather has been on the cold side so he's waiting for slightly warmer weather before doing so.  

 

After about 28 years of waiting I just might get to drive the truck on the street this spring!

 

 

 

 

[ggdad1951]

Hopefully my messing with them a few years ago didn't come back to haunt you!    Happy to see them being put to good use!

[bkahler]

On 1/10/2024 at 1:09 PM, ggdad1951 said:

Hopefully my messing with them a few years ago didn't come back to haunt you!    Happy to see them being put to good use!

 

We'll never know....

 

[bkahler]

Ok, I've finally got a few things that worth an update.  The bed panels are done and the front fenders are mostly installed.

 

I'll be the first to admit the bed panels aren't perfect, but they are good enough for me.  The trick is once installed, drive fast enough that people don't get a good look at them  

 

 

 

 

The panels are still at the painters, which is good because I currently don't have any room to store them.  I've had a lot going on and the shop was packed with stuff so it's been really difficult to work efficiently.  I finally managed to make room and once the front sheet metal is all bolted into place then I'll be able to move things around to make an assembly area to build the bed.  

 

This morning we worked on fitting the front fenders.  Started on the right side and fought it tooth and nail to get the gasket and bolts between the front of the fender and the front nose.  The left side we were able to apply lessons learned and it went a lot faster.  The bolts holding the fenders to the nose are now tight, but the bolts holding the nose to the radiator frame are still loose. 

 

We're having difficulty getting the door gaps to stay put.  I can pull the nose on the left side and get a decent gap but after letting off on the pressure it moves back closer to the door.  Tightening the bolts on the left side don't seem to help it stay in position, it still springs back somewhat.  The passenger side gap is slight larger than it should be so I think the cab needs to rotate slightly.  

 

I'm currently struggling with finding a method to pivot the cab (the four bolts are loose).  I believe the front left bolt is somewhat of a pivot point and what needs to happen is the passenger side needs to pivot slightly forward.  What's the best way to do this?

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's been around 28 years since I dismantled the truck and its kinda weird to see fenders on the truck!

 

 

[ggdad1951]

Ah....aligning all the parts....the PITA step.  Lots of ways to adjust not just the cab but the fenders and hood.  I fought the cab for a while on FEF and ended up ovaling a mounting hole to get things lined up.  Bear in mind most of these boys never lined up that great in the first place and you knda end up with some compromises IMO.  Remember you can shift the doghouse around a bit, not just the cab.  The rad support should allow some movement front/back/up/down/twist.

[bkahler]

Yeah, PITA pretty much sums it up.  

 

Your comment about the radiator support got me thinking, so I went and took a couple of pictures that might explain a lot.  The front end does not seem to be centered over the frame supports.  I've been stuck on the idea that the radiator support is where it needs to be, but now I'm thinking that's not true.  If it get the time, tomorrow I'll loosen the two nuts holding the frame in place and see if that gains me anything.  

 

 

 

Stay tuned....

 

[JBNeal]

When I needed to straighten up the cab on the 1-ton, I put a trolley jack between the running board and the cab floor just to get the weight off of the rear cab mount, then kinda shoved the door frame and rechecked the gaps.  The jack wheels allowed the cab to move a tad without any metal-on-metal screeching.

[bkahler]

8 hours ago, JBNeal said:

When I needed to straighten up the cab on the 1-ton, I put a trolley jack between the running board and the cab floor just to get the weight off of the rear cab mount, then kinda shoved the door frame and rechecked the gaps.  The jack wheels allowed the cab to move a tad without any metal-on-metal screeching.

 

I don't have the running boards installed yet but I'm sure using the trolley jack with some wood to spread the load it should work.  Thanks, I'll give it a try

 

[Los_Control]

Good luck getting it all sorted. I'm kinda sorta at the same point, getting everything lined up.

Everything is all loose and can still be moved or adjusted. I was putting the bed together and realized I needed the running boards installed because they bolt to front & rear fenders.

The bed I think is right because I centered it with the zirk fittings for the shackles .... But I can still wiggle it 1/2" in any direction ..... I'm just not going to tighten anything down until everything is installed and connected.

I have not even started repairing or painting the rear fenders yet .... I put the truck on the back burner while I work on the wife car. ..... Maybe this summer will get to drive it.

 

 

 

[bkahler]

This past weekend I had a few hours to play around with the truck and I didn't really make any progress with the panel alignment problems.  I think I can better articulate the issues now so maybe that will help

 

As a preface, all of the bolts that would allow panel movement are loose.  In the attached pictures you can see the front nose is not centered on the frame (as mentioned previously), the drivers side door gap is too small and the passenger side is probably a little large but unfortunately it tapers from top to bottom, getting smaller at the bottom.  Something not shown in the pictures are the tops of the front fenders where they align with the middle curve of the door.  On both fenders, when the L bracket bolts to the side of the cab (accessed from inside the cab) then fenders are not flush with the door skins.  The fenders are recessed an 1/8" to 3/16".  It's as if the L brackets need spacers installed.  This spot is one of the few where there is no real adjustment other than up/down and forward/back.  No in/out movement is allowed for.  

 

I would think this means the doors need to be moved inward at the top hinge, but if I do this then the doors don't fit the door openings properly.  It seems to me that the fit of the fenders where they meet the doors is the key to getting everything else to fall into place.  

 

I believe I understand how to align the fenders up/down and forward/backward but the in/out has me baffled.  

 

Tips anyone?!

 

 

 

[Los_Control]

On my truck when I took it apart, there were rubber spacers in the very front bolts for the core support.

Adding spacers there, will raise the front and close the gap at top while opening the gap on the bottom.

 

No idea if you have them in place. I have some new 1/4" rubber I cut mine out of, and were about the same as I removed.

 

I also assume you have new rubber cab mounts .... they probably sit a little higher then the old dried out originals.

So even if you installed the same rubber spacers up front ... you probably need to add more to match the new cab mounts.

 

Just my best guess assuming you like the way the doors fit other then that.    Just a 1/8" washer may fix the gap you show.

 

[Los_Control]

Interesting here .... left side looks centered while right is not.

Is it possible one of your frame horns is bent? Have you checked bolt hole alignment with your bumper?

Just hard to say which side is off. Myself I think I would get the sheet metal lined up and bolted in place.

Then figure out which side needs adjusted and how much.

 

But, if one was bent the bumper holes would not line up .... If they do line up .... then both would have to be bent equally?

If you raise the front nose up to fix door gaps, will the alignment of frame horns improve?

 

My frame horns have approximately 3/4" space all the way around the horns ... top and sides.

 

 

[JBNeal]

have ya looked at the floorboard alignment on the pedals?

are the gaps at the door and cab door frame near the latches about the same?

 

I reckon once the cab gets squared on the frame, then the fenders can be lined up to the doors and grille panel to the frame.  Probably wouldn't hurt to verify that front bumper alignment; if the frame rails are a li'l tweaked at the bumper, that's gonna throw some things off a bit.

Edited April 16 by JBNeal
clarification

[ggdad1951]

Brad, also remember the gaps won't look as pretty as a modern....unless you prefit everything and filled and ground, you kinda end up with "best as one can do".

[bkahler]

Back around April time frame I stopped working on my truck because I was concerned about panel fitment issues and more importantly springtime in Kentucky means mowing, lots and lots of mowing.  However I'm finally going to start tinkering with the truck again.  Currently the fenders, front nose, hood center section and doors are installed but the fenders and nose mounting bolts are all loose as are the four cab bolts. 

 

First question is should I install the splash shields now, or wait until everything is tightened down?  My thoughts are to install them now so everything lines up as bolts get tightened down for the final time.

 

Next question is whenever I do install the splash shields, how the heck do you get them in place without scratching everything up in the meantime?

 

Thanks!

 

Brad 

[JBNeal]

I vote for getting them inner fender parts in place before tightening everything since you've got a li'l wiggle room now.  When them fenders are bolted down, reinstalling them big panels requires some finagling, some scraping, and some colorful phraseology 💥

[Los_Control]

You can see in my photo above, I have everything bolted together and left very loose.

Nothing really fits well at this point.

My conclusion is, I need to start with the rear fenders. .... We know they are centered over the rear wheels.

Now I have the rear fenders bolted to the bed, I can now bolt the bed to the frame.

The running boards bolt directly to the rear fenders, then to the splash aprons on the front. Which the outer fenders then bolt to. And agree the inner fenders fit tightly and should go in early.

Talk to your painter about some touch up paint .... almost every vehicle will need some after assembly.

 

Might be a good idea to use some blue tape on the edges of the inner fenders while you get hem into posistion. Then remove the tape before tightening?

 

Reminds of the old kids game where the ankle bone is connected to the leg bone, leg bone is connected to the knee bone ....

For  whatever reason I felt the rear fenders was the right place to start first ... they are pretty well fixed in where they will be.

[ggdad1951]

Splash shields can go in last IMO, just have to be careful.   Most are set up to have play anyway, having them in too early might get in the way, cause binding or scratch things anyway.

[bkahler]

15 hours ago, JBNeal said:

I vote for getting them inner fender parts in place before tightening everything since you've got a li'l wiggle room now.  When them fenders are bolted down, reinstalling them big panels requires some finagling, some scraping, and some colorful phraseology 💥

 

I can safely say I have the colorful phraseology on standby ready to go

 

I guess back when these trucks were built, the idea of not scraping paint when doing maintenance was not something that was considered important.

[bkahler]

15 hours ago, Los_Control said:

You can see in my photo above, I have everything bolted together and left very loose.

Nothing really fits well at this point.

My conclusion is, I need to start with the rear fenders. .... We know they are centered over the rear wheels.

Now I have the rear fenders bolted to the bed, I can now bolt the bed to the frame.

The running boards bolt directly to the rear fenders, then to the splash aprons on the front. Which the outer fenders then bolt to. And agree the inner fenders fit tightly and should go in early.

Talk to your painter about some touch up paint .... almost every vehicle will need some after assembly.

 

Might be a good idea to use some blue tape on the edges of the inner fenders while you get hem into posistion. Then remove the tape before tightening?

 

Reminds of the old kids game where the ankle bone is connected to the leg bone, leg bone is connected to the knee bone ....

For  whatever reason I felt the rear fenders was the right place to start first ... they are pretty well fixed in where they will be.

 

I've already got the blue tape ready.  I'm also thinking of using rags and anything else that might seem appropriate at the time.  It's too late to consider installing the bed first, the doors and fenders are already in place and there is no way I'm taking them off again! 

 

I would really like to see pictures/videos of how the factory went about assembling the bodies on these trucks.  There had to have been a method to their madness. 

[bkahler]

13 hours ago, ggdad1951 said:

Splash shields can go in last IMO, just have to be careful.   Most are set up to have play anyway, having them in too early might get in the way, cause binding or scratch things anyway.

 

That's a good point about them being in the way.  Time to ponder some more....

 

It would be nice to see a video of someone removing and re-installing the splash panels.  I'm sure back in the day it was a common method used during maintenance.

 

[Los_Control]

I'm sure I never did anything correctly on my truck.

I never removed my cab. The rubber mounts may have shrunk, but they look fine. I did not have the ability to remove it or store it .... I just left it in place.

 

So technically my cab was first installed. I imagine there is a small amount of adjustment on cab location?

I dunno.

 

There is some adjustment between the bed and the cab though .... there is 2"-3" between back of cab and front of bed.

I can move the bed around a bit front to back .... to me it seems the rear fenders have the least amount of adjustment.

 

The front nose piece has a inch or so adjustment, the front fenders have adjustment, the running boards have adjustment.

I started from the front and worked back.

 

I got to the back of the running boards and I thought I could not go any further until I have the rear fenders in place.

My rear fenders are not finished, I do have them bolted in place.

I had to adjust my bed a bit, now the running boards are bolted to the rear fenders and also to the front aprons.

The aprons bolt to the cab, the front fender bolts to the apron and the running boards bolt to the apron.

 

I just felt I needed these intersection points to meet, before I could go further.

My front core support is way out yet .... I wanted to adjust it first .... I just felt I needed something anchored into place first.

The rear fenders are my anchor point. Now the front lower fenders are anchored and have a decent reveal at the door.

 

Maybe you just need to find your anchor point. Seems there is a lot going on between the core support, front pan, the rods from the firewall to the core support and the hood.

Tackling the front core support adjustments seem more manageable to me, now that the rest is taken care of.

 

Now if I can only find time to work on it. .... hoping to work on the distributor and steering wheel inside a warm garage today. ..... Just been too busy with life and a assortment of projects it has sent me.

[bkahler]

Los, I ended up laying under the truck for several hours today trying to figure out what my options are for getting all the bits and pieces properly aligned.  From what I can determine there is definitely a fixed location for the front of the running boards and the rear of the front fenders.  The two lower splash panels are the location points.  The left side splash panel bolts to the battery box and the right side splash panel bolts to the front cab frame cross member.  Both of those points are fixed in space and are not adjustable. 

 

 

That means the running boards are in a set location which would also locate the rear fenders.  The front fender is fixed in place which sets the location of the radiator shroud and all other sheet metal forward of the splash panels.  The door to front fender gap will fix the cab in a specific spot as well. 

 

I just bolted the splash panels bolted in place so my only issue now is how to get the nose assembly centered over the two frame members sticking out front.  Currently the right frame member is centered in the nose opening, however the left frame member is considerably closer to the right side of the nose opening.  My frame is not bent (to the best of my knowledge anyway) so I'm trying to determine if pivoting the cab on the left front mounting bolt will make any difference. 

 

I made a cardboard mock up of the cab, fenders, and nose and made it so the cab can pivot on the left front corner and the nose can pivot in the center.  What I found is to a small degree, moving the rear of the cab to the left might slightly pivot the nose to the right.  In my mock up it seems to work, whether or not it will work on the actual truck is a different story.