Engine capacity of D15

[johnjnr]

Hi I trying to get some details together for my 1940 Dodge D15 coupe to aid its UK registration. Does anyone know what the engine capacity would be. Sorry if its simple but i have no documents and my troll of the web hasn't provide me with any answers. I have the engine no but cant find any links that might provide me with its CC.

 

Any help from the wiser ones out there greatly appreciated.

[greg g]

The D 15 for export was based on the 1940 Plymouth.  Carnut.com says 201 cubic inches, 84 flywheel horsepower.  No torque spec listed.

[Andydodge]

John...........Welcome Aboard from Oz.............I have had my D15D Sedan since 1971 and whilst its a hotrod I do have gathered a bit of info over the years on the D15........depending on where your car was built it may have one of two versions of the mopar 6...........if built in the USA it should have a 23" long 3 & 1/4 bore 217.8 cubic inch engine, 87bhp, it may also have the Plymouth engine , still 23" long 3 & 1/8th bore 201.3 cubic inch capacity, 82 bhp.............but if its a Canadian sourced D15 then it should have the DeSoto/Chrysler based mopar 6 which is 25" long and 3 & 3/8th bore, 218.8 cubic inches and I think 97 bhp.....................which ever engine its important to measure the length on the cylinder head and note which it has as whilst the two engine families look the same the Dodge/Plymouth version shares very little internally with the DeSoto/Chrysler bigger brother.......as far as I know the only things that they share are water pumps, timing chains & gears and possibly oil pumps and lifters(maybe).........but cranks, rods, pistons, bearings, cam, gaskets, intake & exhaust manifolds are all different from small to big engine...........also the D15 was essentially Plymouth based with Plymouth fenders, hood, head & tailights using a Dodge grille, badges etc............heres a pic of my car............anyway welcome aboard...............Andy Douglas       

['41 Fat Bottom Girl]

JJ, It is my understanding that the term "engine capacity" is the same as "engine displacement".

The info I have states the D15 was a 218.1-cid engine, the same size used on Canadian-built 1940 D14 and D16 models as well as 1941 (D19, D20, D21), 1940-41 Plymouths and all 1942 to mid-1953 Plymouths and Plymouth-based Dodges. 

(FYI- The Canadian Plymouths and Dodges used the larger Chrysler flathead six that was used on the DeSoto and Chrysler. Thus a Canadian-built 1940-41 Dodge had a 218.1-cid engine (3.375" bore, 4.062" stroke) compared to the American 217.8-cid engine (3.25" bore, 4.375" stroke).

 

If you can provide the full Dxxxxxxxx number stamped on the engine, the displacement (capacity) can be verified absolutely, but I suspect that if it is the original engine, it is a 218.1 cubic inch displacement.

 

This means it is a 3.574 litre, or 3574 cc displacement (capacity)

 

(Also just FYI- If you ever want to get the "build" tag on the car from the Chrysler History group with additional info for your car, you will probably need the car serial number (nowadays known as a "VIN") . On early 40's it is likely on a small rectangular plate on the hinge post of the passenger door. It is almost always painted over...Alternately, it is also stamped on the frame rail above the rear wheel, driver's side) 

 

So if you have the full Dxxxxxxxx number stamped on the engine, post it and then it can be verified as the original 218.1, or other.

(By the way- I am certainly not one of the "wiser" ones! Just had the good fortune to have done some recent engine research myself!)

Hope this helps!

[johnjnr]

Hi All Thanks for all the replies. Seems like there is plenty of knowledge amongst you all to assist in my quest for info. The engine number is D14 - 44910.  The body number is D14 4058 ASC and the serial number is 3937522. From the serial number i have ascertained that the car was produced in 1940 as the info i have points to D15 US made (having S. Nos from 3934901 to 3939123, with mine being in the middle of this range.) "Fat Bottom Girl" you have stated that the Chrysler History Group might be able to provide more info, do you have a web site or contact address for them? Again thanks to you all and anyone else that might have more info.

 

Attached a couple of photos of how the car currently looks and the engine bay.

 

JJ

['41 Fat Bottom Girl]

 

Looks like your research on the numbers was pretty thorough, I can't add any more than you already have found. It does appear to be U.S. made so you might be able to get more info from the Historical group. 

I don't know the current fee for providing the build sheet, you would probably have to contact them to find out the 2019 cost. If they don't have the record they will return your check, but a friend of mine some years back was able to get some good info on his '39. As he has since passed away,  I couldn't ask him questions about it.  I do remember not all the info on the car was detailed, so I can't tell you for a fact that the engine displacement will be shown- but the build sheet might give you more info than you have presently if it was a US built car.

They can tell you the info that you would need to send them, I think you have to also send some kind of proof of ownership as well, if I recall correctly.

Below is some recent info I found on the Historical group.

 

Maybe another forum member has done this and can tell us if the engine displacement is shown on the build sheets?

 

By the way- Your car is a beauty. What a great place to start fixing it up and getting it road-worthy again! Congratulations.

 

Chrysler Historical Services may have information and materials as:
Owner and service manuals: 1915 - 1990
Photographs
Production numbers
Build records:
U.S.-built trucks from 1930 - 1950
U.S.-built cars from 1930 - 1967

Note:

1. The Chrysler Historical Services does not have build records relating to Jeep®, AMC or Canadian-built vehicles.
2. Production Data (IBM) cards - Copies of IBM cards for vehicle from 1967 and older: There is a fee for three photocopies, and you can only get strictly limited information from the card, not even decoding of the data plate.

Contact:
Mailing address:
Chrysler Group LLC - Historical Services
12501 Chrysler Fwy.
CIMS 410-11-21
Detroit, MI 48288 USA
ATTN: Historical Information

 

E-mail: archives@wpchryslermuseum.org

Fax:
313-252-2928

 

[Andydodge]

Interesting that the engine number starts with D14 and that body number also starts with D14, and with the "ASC" it would make me think that the body number plate maybe off an Auxillary Seat Coupe, ie a coupe with the small folding occaisonal seats behind the normal single bench seat............BTW the "Plymouth" hood, and headlight surrounds plus the D15 specific grille sheet metal all point to a D15........the engine number and body number have me intriqued...........do you have any history to the car?..........andyd   

Edited May 6, 2019 by Andydodge

[johnjnr]

12 hours ago, Andydodge said:

Interesting that the engine number starts with D14 and that body number also starts with D14, and with the "ASC" it would make me think that the body number plate maybe off an Auxillary Seat Coupe, ie a coupe with the small folding occaisonal seats behind the normal single bench seat............BTW the "Plymouth" hood, and headlight surrounds plus the D15 specific grille sheet metal all point to a D15........the engine number and body number have me intriqued...........do you have any history to the car?..........andyd   

Hi Andy, Unfortunately the information i have is very limited due to a relative mislaying all the documents and im trying to piece all the information i can from every and any source available. The car does have seats in the rear so the ASC i would presume correct. So following your information above im quite sure the car built was built in USA as there is a tag that says Detroit Michigan on it above the body number so it should have a 23" long 3 & 1/4 bore 217.8 cubic inch engine, 87bhp. Therefore the car should be 3569cc.

 

Would the model be called a D15 or was there any dirivative ie business coupe, deluxe or other?

 

Thanks again for the help so far and any further.

John

 

 

[johnjnr]

On 5/5/2019 at 3:44 PM, '41 Fat Bottom Girl said:

 

Looks like your research on the numbers was pretty thorough, I can't add any more than you already have found. It does appear to be U.S. made so you might be able to get more info from the Historical group. 

I don't know the current fee for providing the build sheet, you would probably have to contact them to find out the 2019 cost. If they don't have the record they will return your check, but a friend of mine some years back was able to get some good info on his '39. As he has since passed away,  I couldn't ask him questions about it.  I do remember not all the info on the car was detailed, so I can't tell you for a fact that the engine displacement will be shown- but the build sheet might give you more info than you have presently if it was a US built car.

They can tell you the info that you would need to send them, I think you have to also send some kind of proof of ownership as well, if I recall correctly.

Below is some recent info I found on the Historical group.

 

Maybe another forum member has done this and can tell us if the engine displacement is shown on the build sheets?

 

By the way- Your car is a beauty. What a great place to start fixing it up and getting it road-worthy again! Congratulations.

 

Chrysler Historical Services may have information and materials as:
Owner and service manuals: 1915 - 1990
Photographs
Production numbers
Build records:
U.S.-built trucks from 1930 - 1950
U.S.-built cars from 1930 - 1967

Note:

1. The Chrysler Historical Services does not have build records relating to Jeep®, AMC or Canadian-built vehicles.
2. Production Data (IBM) cards - Copies of IBM cards for vehicle from 1967 and older: There is a fee for three photocopies, and you can only get strictly limited information from the card, not even decoding of the data plate.

Contact:
Mailing address:
Chrysler Group LLC - Historical Services
12501 Chrysler Fwy.
CIMS 410-11-21
Detroit, MI 48288 USA
ATTN: Historical Information

 

E-mail: archives@wpchryslermuseum.org

Fax:
313-252-2928

 

Hi 

Thanks fro all the info here i will be contacting the Historical Service asap.

 

Regards

 

John

[Andydodge]

I had a 1941 Plymouth ASC P11 Coupe......have attached a couple of pics showing the foldable rear seats............I would measure the length of the engine to be CERTAIN what it is, whether Dodge/Plymouth family or DeSoto/Chrysler family..............whilst the engine and body number having "D14" would indicate that its indeed a D14 model, the front sheet metal is the D15 style, see my car to compare, mine is a D15D or Deluxe sedan, note the "Plymouth"  tailights.....do you have any more pics?.............ie, side on and rear pics, also I assume its RHD due to the lack of LHD accelerator linkage across the engine and I can see the RHD shifter cable in the engine bay and wheel thru the front screen.............where did it come from as whilst built as a factory RHD  export model it may have been assembled in the UK or South Africa as my 41 Plymouth was.....here in Oz we didn't get the US bodied coupes at all...anyway more pics & info needed.....lol...........andyd

[johnjnr]

7 hours ago, Andydodge said:

I had a 1941 Plymouth ASC P11 Coupe......have attached a couple of pics showing the foldable rear seats............I would measure the length of the engine to be CERTAIN what it is, whether Dodge/Plymouth family or DeSoto/Chrysler family..............whilst the engine and body number having "D14" would indicate that its indeed a D14 model, the front sheet metal is the D15 style, see my car to compare, mine is a D15D or Deluxe sedan, note the "Plymouth"  tailights.....do you have any more pics?.............ie, side on and rear pics, also I assume its RHD due to the lack of LHD accelerator linkage across the engine and I can see the RHD shifter cable in the engine bay and wheel thru the front screen.............where did it come from as whilst built as a factory RHD  export model it may have been assembled in the UK or South Africa as my 41 Plymouth was.....here in Oz we didn't get the US bodied coupes at all...anyway more pics & info needed.....lol...........andyd

 

 

Andy

The car originated from South Africa and is indeed rhd. and i have attached some more photos here. Im looking forward to getting the car at least road worthy so it can be enjoyed. i will keep you all update on my progress and probably more questions on parts etc. etc

 

[Andydodge]

John................I am your new BEST FRIEND..............lol.................if ever you decide you don't want that glove box lid with the clock in situ I am happy to fly to the UK to get it.........lol........I honestly do not ever remember seeing one like it, in 48 yrs of playing with 1940 Dodges..................interesting seeing the dash pics tho' whilst my car is obviously RHD being an Oz built D15 it doesn't have the demister vents in the inner windscreen garnish molding, also all Oz mopars that I have seen from the late 30's on have electric wipers, that wiper switch knob on the dash is something never seen here,  your steering wheel is exactly the same as the one I had on my car and I notice the mopar radio.........looks to be a very nice purchase.........how did you find it ?..........notwithstanding the D14 I'd be calling it a D15 due to the appearance, ie, the Plymouth fenders, hood, lights & bumpers  but your registration/licencing requirements may want to use the D14 as the naming titles.........I see it also has the same 1940 Plymouth tailights, number plate light and bumpers that mine has............but my Standard Catalog of Chrysler, 1924-1990 by John Lee, ISBN # 0-87341-142-0  does indicate, page 260,  that there were on the Plymouth body shell, a Junior series of 1940 Dodges, the D14 Kingsway, D15 Deluxe and D15 Deluxe Special........only the D15 version was built in the US for export with 4317 built, nearly 2/3rds of which were RHD, all with the Dodge 217.8 engine...............dunno if any of this helps, probably just adds to the confusion.........lol..............so if you see an old guy with glasses and an Oz accent lusting after your cars glove box lid just say Hi......lol........regards from Oz............Andy Douglas.        

[B-Watson]

The D14 is the larger US Dodge Luxury Liner with the 217.8 cid 23" block.

 

The D15 and D16 were based on the Plymouth with the D15 built in the U.S. for export and in Canada for export and Canada.   Your car has the Plymouth 201.3-cid 23" block (3-1/8" bore and 4-3/8" stroke).  Now, there were two versions of the U.S. 1940 Plymouth/Dodge  engine -

Regular compression - 6.7:1 compression, 87 bhp @ 3800 rpm, torque 160 @ 1200.

The export low compression was 5.2:1 compression, 65 bhp @ 3800, torque 138 @ 1200.

 

If your engine is a low compression model it should have "LC" stamped by the engine number.  Also, you can tell a Canadian- built engine by the letter "C" at the end of the engine number.

 

Also, the serial number 3937522 (3934901 to 3939123) is for Detroit production.  Canadian-built cars start with a "9".   The US Plymouth-based export Dodge used their own serial number sequences through 1950.  From 1951 to 1959 the US export Dodge used US Plymouth serial numbers.

 

Model names for the D15 all depended upon the market they were sold in.   In Chrysler records in the U..S. the D15 seems to have been recorded as simply "Export Six" .  The Kingsway name was adopted after WW II. 

 

In Canada the D15 was sold as the Kingsway  while the D16 was DeLuxe and DeLuxe Special.   Chrysler did not record separate production for the DeLuxe Special, although their shipment records did.  In the book "The Dodge Story"  (Thomas A. McPherson, Crestline Publishing, 1975) the author quotes production numbers for Canadian model year builds, but they made little sense.  Looking at them more closely, they appear to be shipment numbers.   They are incomplete as model years generally ran from August to the following July while shipments ran from August until all cars were shipped, which could have cars lying around the assembly plant grounds into the fall, or more than twelve months.

 

Also, the export Dodge offered all the body styles Plymouth offered, but in one series.   Thus the D15 would have the panel delivery and utility sedan listed along with the convertible coupe,  limousine and all the rest.  Starting 1942 the export Dodge offered the same models Plymouth did, in the same two layer series arrangement.

 

Don't know that Chrysler Historical will be able to contribute that much.   They do not do the interpretation of the build records any more and they generally did not keep records for export vehicles.  The build records were kept by Chrysler to help dealers order the correct materials, paints, etc. for their customers.  After six or seven years they were tossed.  However, someone decided to save all the build records that were kept and thus cars go back to about 1930.   CHS has build records up to about 1966  and that was about the time broadcast sheets began taking over on the assembly line.

 

[B-Watson]

1940 Production :

 

D15 - For the Canadian market :

2 dr Business Coupe - 840

2 dr Sedan - 1,375

4 dr Sedan - 1,442

Chassis (117.5" wheelbase) - 1

Total - 3,658

 

D15 - Built for export :  (LHD  /  RHD  =  Total)

2 dr Business Coupe - 34 / 42 = 76

2 dr Auxiliary Seat Coupe - 34 / 122 = 156

2 dr Sedan - 14 / 37 = 51

4 dr Sedan - 1,057 / 1,703 = 2,760

2 dr Convertible  - 12 / 2 = 14

2 dr Panel Delivery - 59 / 1 = 60

2 dr Utility Sedan - 15 / 0 = 15

4 dr Station Wagon - 91 / 3 = 94

Standard Chassis (117.5" wheelbase) - 6 / 1,010 = 1,016

4 dr LWB Sedan (137.5" wheelbase), 8-pass - 23 / 35 = 58

Total Export - 4,300

(About 79 of the above exports were for the Canadian-built D14.   The figures I have combine US and Canadian export production together.

 

For the D16 - Dodge DeLuxe Six (Canadian-market only) -

2 dr Business Coupe - 563

2dr Auxiliary Coupe - 408

2 dr Sedan - 1,694

4 dr Sedan - 6,220

Total D16 - 8,885

 

 

 

 

Edited May 9, 2019 by B-Watson
Update LWB specs

[johnjnr]

3 hours ago, B-Watson said:

1940 Production :

 

D15 - For the Canadian market :

2 dr Business Coupe - 840

2 dr Sedan - 1,375

4 dr Sedan - 1,442

Chassis (117.5" wheelbase) - 1

Total - 3,658

 

D15 - Built for export :  (LHD  /  RHD  =  Total)

2 dr Business Coupe - 34 / 42 = 76

2 dr Auxiliary Seat Coupe - 34 / 122 = 156

2 dr Sedan - 14 / 37 = 51

4 dr Sedan - 1,057 / 1,703 = 2,760

2 dr Convertible  - 12 / 2 = 14

2 dr Panel Delivery - 59 / 1 = 60

2 dr Utility Sedan - 15 / 0 = 15

4 dr Station Wagon - 91 / 3 = 94

Standard Chassis (117.5" wheelbase) - 6 / 1,010 = 1,016

4 dr LWB Sedan (137.5" wheelbase), 8-pass - 23 / 35 = 58

Total Export - 4,300

(About 79 of the above exports were for the Canadian-built D14.   The figures I have combine US and Canadian export production together.

 

For the D16 - Dodge DeLuxe Six (Canadian-market only) -

2 dr Business Coupe - 563

2dr Auxiliary Coupe - 408

2 dr Sedan - 1,694

4 dr Sedan - 6,220

Total D16 - 8,885

 

 

 

 

 

On 5/8/2019 at 1:32 AM, Andydodge said:

John................I am your new BEST FRIEND..............lol.................if ever you decide you don't want that glove box lid with the clock in situ I am happy to fly to the UK to get it.........lol........I honestly do not ever remember seeing one like it, in 48 yrs of playing with 1940 Dodges..................interesting seeing the dash pics tho' whilst my car is obviously RHD being an Oz built D15 it doesn't have the demister vents in the inner windscreen garnish molding, also all Oz mopars that I have seen from the late 30's on have electric wipers, that wiper switch knob on the dash is something never seen here,  your steering wheel is exactly the same as the one I had on my car and I notice the mopar radio.........looks to be a very nice purchase.........how did you find it ?..........notwithstanding the D14 I'd be calling it a D15 due to the appearance, ie, the Plymouth fenders, hood, lights & bumpers  but your registration/licencing requirements may want to use the D14 as the naming titles.........I see it also has the same 1940 Plymouth tailights, number plate light and bumpers that mine has............but my Standard Catalog of Chrysler, 1924-1990 by John Lee, ISBN # 0-87341-142-0  does indicate, page 260,  that there were on the Plymouth body shell, a Junior series of 1940 Dodges, the D14 Kingsway, D15 Deluxe and D15 Deluxe Special........only the D15 version was built in the US for export with 4317 built, nearly 2/3rds of which were RHD, all with the Dodge 217.8 engine...............dunno if any of this helps, probably just adds to the confusion.........lol..............so if you see an old guy with glasses and an Oz accent lusting after your cars glove box lid just say Hi......lol........regards from Oz............Andy Douglas.        

Andy thanks for the further info 

 

On 5/8/2019 at 1:32 AM, Andydodge said:

John................I am your new BEST FRIEND..............lol.................if ever you decide you don't want that glove box lid with the clock in situ I am happy to fly to the UK to get it.........lol........I honestly do not ever remember seeing one like it, in 48 yrs of playing with 1940 Dodges..................interesting seeing the dash pics tho' whilst my car is obviously RHD being an Oz built D15 it doesn't have the demister vents in the inner windscreen garnish molding, also all Oz mopars that I have seen from the late 30's on have electric wipers, that wiper switch knob on the dash is something never seen here,  your steering wheel is exactly the same as the one I had on my car and I notice the mopar radio.........looks to be a very nice purchase.........how did you find it ?..........notwithstanding the D14 I'd be calling it a D15 due to the appearance, ie, the Plymouth fenders, hood, lights & bumpers  but your registration/licencing requirements may want to use the D14 as the naming titles.........I see it also has the same 1940 Plymouth tailights, number plate light and bumpers that mine has............but my Standard Catalog of Chrysler, 1924-1990 by John Lee, ISBN # 0-87341-142-0  does indicate, page 260,  that there were on the Plymouth body shell, a Junior series of 1940 Dodges, the D14 Kingsway, D15 Deluxe and D15 Deluxe Special........only the D15 version was built in the US for export with 4317 built, nearly 2/3rds of which were RHD, all with the Dodge 217.8 engine...............dunno if any of this helps, probably just adds to the confusion.........lol..............so if you see an old guy with glasses and an Oz accent lusting after your cars glove box lid just say Hi......lol........regards from Oz............Andy Douglas.        

Andy

Thanks for the information and I will definitely let you know if I intend parting with any parts I have got the Chrysler catalog but the reprinted version but hadn't read it properly. Take Care John

[johnjnr]

3 hours ago, B-Watson said:

1940 Production :

 

D15 - For the Canadian market :

2 dr Business Coupe - 840

2 dr Sedan - 1,375

4 dr Sedan - 1,442

Chassis (117.5" wheelbase) - 1

Total - 3,658

 

D15 - Built for export :  (LHD  /  RHD  =  Total)

2 dr Business Coupe - 34 / 42 = 76

2 dr Auxiliary Seat Coupe - 34 / 122 = 156

2 dr Sedan - 14 / 37 = 51

4 dr Sedan - 1,057 / 1,703 = 2,760

2 dr Convertible  - 12 / 2 = 14

2 dr Panel Delivery - 59 / 1 = 60

2 dr Utility Sedan - 15 / 0 = 15

4 dr Station Wagon - 91 / 3 = 94

Standard Chassis (117.5" wheelbase) - 6 / 1,010 = 1,016

4 dr LWB Sedan (137.5" wheelbase), 8-pass - 23 / 35 = 58

Total Export - 4,300

(About 79 of the above exports were for the Canadian-built D14.   The figures I have combine US and Canadian export production together.

 

For the D16 - Dodge DeLuxe Six (Canadian-market only) -

2 dr Business Coupe - 563

2dr Auxiliary Coupe - 408

2 dr Sedan - 1,694

4 dr Sedan - 6,220

Total D16 - 8,885

 

 

 

 

Hi

Thanks for all this info. Looks like I have a D15 ASC one of 122 rhd made for export. There is no LC near the engine no. so mine might be the regular compression engine as you have stated. Haven't heard anything back from the Chrysler Historical people yet but you guys on here are definitely a grand source of really useful info.

Regards John 

[johnjnr]

On 5/9/2019 at 2:37 PM, B-Watson said:

The D14 is the larger US Dodge Luxury Liner with the 217.8 cid 23" block.

 

The D15 and D16 were based on the Plymouth with the D15 built in the U.S. for export and in Canada for export and Canada.   Your car has the Plymouth 201.3-cid 23" block (3-1/8" bore and 4-3/8" stroke).  Now, there were two versions of the U.S. 1940 Plymouth/Dodge  engine -

Regular compression - 6.7:1 compression, 87 bhp @ 3800 rpm, torque 160 @ 1200.

The export low compression was 5.2:1 compression, 65 bhp @ 3800, torque 138 @ 1200.

 

If your engine is a low compression model it should have "LC" stamped by the engine number.  Also, you can tell a Canadian- built engine by the letter "C" at the end of the engine number.

 

Also, the serial number 3937522 (3934901 to 3939123) is for Detroit production.  Canadian-built cars start with a "9".   The US Plymouth-based export Dodge used their own serial number sequences through 1950.  From 1951 to 1959 the US export Dodge used US Plymouth serial numbers.

 

On 5/9/2019 at 2:37 PM, B-Watson said:

Model names for the D15 all depended upon the market they were sold in.   In Chrysler records in the U..S. the D15 seems to have been recorded as simply "Export Six" .  The Kingsway name was adopted after WW II. 

 

In Canada the D15 was sold as the Kingsway  while the D16 was DeLuxe and DeLuxe Special.   Chrysler did not record separate production for the DeLuxe Special, although their shipment records did.  In the book "The Dodge Story"  (Thomas A. McPherson, Crestline Publishing, 1975) the author quotes production numbers for Canadian model year builds, but they made little sense.  Looking at them more closely, they appear to be shipment numbers.   They are incomplete as model years generally ran from August to the following July while shipments ran from August until all cars were shipped, which could have cars lying around the assembly plant grounds into the fall, or more than twelve months.

 

Also, the export Dodge offered all the body styles Plymouth offered, but in one series.   Thus the D15 would have the panel delivery and utility sedan listed along with the convertible coupe,  limousine and all the rest.  Starting 1942 the export Dodge offered the same models Plymouth did, in the same two layer series arrangement.

 

Don't know that Chrysler Historical will be able to contribute that much.   They do not do the interpretation of the build records any more and they generally did not keep records for export vehicles.  The build records were kept by Chrysler to help dealers order the correct materials, paints, etc. for their customers.  After six or seven years they were tossed.  However, someone decided to save all the build records that were kept and thus cars go back to about 1930.   CHS has build records up to about 1966  and that was about the time broadcast sheets began taking over on the assembly line.

 

Hi 

Thanks fro the technical info here. The one issue that i seem to have is the verification of the engine size. According to the "Standard Catelohue for Chrysler 1914-2000 the export car has a 218cu in. 84 hp engine. while your info says 201.3? I'm definitely no expert and using only the info you, others and books available can offer but this one is confusing. Any further help greatly appreciated.

JJ

 

 

 

[Andydodge]

John........you have to be careful when referring to the "218" engine as the Plymouth/Dodge 23" long engine has a 217.6 version and the 25" long DeSoto/Chrysler engine has a 218.8 version but the are essentailly different engines with few parts that interchange........I have seen references to both engines being a "218" without any real certainty as to what the engine really is.................so have you measured the head length to confirm which engine family your car has?.........this info will help................andyd  

Edited May 12, 2019 by Andydodge

[johnjnr]

23 hours ago, Andydodge said:

John........you have to be careful when referring to the "218" engine as the Plymouth/Dodge 23" long engine has a 217.6 version and the 25" long DeSoto/Chrysler engine has a 218.8 version but the are essentailly different engines with few parts that interchange........I have seen references to both engines being a "218" without any real certainty as to what the engine really is.................so have you measured the head length to confirm which engine family your car has?.........this info will help................andyd  

Andyd, Sorry about the confusion yes you stated before that there were 2 differing engine sizes ie plymouth/dodge or desoto/chrysler. I haven't yet been able to measure the head length yet as the car is in storage not nearby but will try to get this. According to some info from the Classic Car Database http://www.classiccardatabase.com the vehicle i have may be a Dodge Deluxe D15 Special Club Coupe? As you can probably tell I'm still trying to gather what information i can so sorry if im a bit slow here. The data from this web site states that the car may have a 217.8 engine??? but this states that the wheelbase is 119inches. But i thought the D15 coupe was 117inch wheel base. Hopefully i will soon have the answer to what engine i have? A 217.8, 218 or a 201.3?? Thanka again for the help. JJ

 

 

 

[Andydodge]

John as I've mentioned the only reason to check the head length is to confirm which engine family its from, so that if you need any engine parts you can be sure to get what you need......, then measuring the actual stroke via inserting a long piece, (12" at least) of stiff, thin welding wire into the inspection hole above # 6 piston and slowly turning the engine over and noting the movement of the piston and therefore the stroke............here in Oz in 1940 the D15 had the 201.33 or 3.3litre engine with 82 BHP....... the D14 had the 217.6 or 3.57litre engine with 87 BHP.......and Plymouth had the same engine as the D15 at 201.33 and 82 BHP...........this info is from original sales brochures of both 1940 Oz Dodge and Plymouth that I have..........andyd.    

[B-Watson]

The problem with the 217.6 and 218.06 engines has arisen in the past decade or so.   When I first became involved in automotive history back in the 1970's the 217.6 engine was generally referred to as a 217 while the 218.06 (or 218.1) was the 218.  No confusion that way.  But somewhere along the line the 217 became a 218.

 

Anyway, the Plymouth-based Dodges and DeSotos used the Plymouth engine  - no exceptions.  The only trouble is that the Canadian-built models from mid-1938 used Canadian-built engines (flathead sixes were 25" block with 3.375" bore and then 3.44" bore when they adopted the 236.6/250.6-cid engines) while US-built models used American-built engines (23" block with 3.125" bore , switching to 3.25" bore for 1942).

 

So, your 1940 D15 model, sourced in the U.S., uses the 3.125" bore with 4.375" stroke gives 201.3-cid.  (or 201.36-cid).    The Canadian engine with its 3.375" bore and 3.75" stroke gives 201.3-cid (or 201.32-cid).  

 

1941 was the last year for the 3.125" bore and the U.S.-built 1942 Plymouth and export variations switched to the former Dodge engine - 3.25" bore and 4.375" stroke for 217.6-cid.  The U.S. Dodge increased the stroke to 4.625" to produce 230.6-cid, which was used from 1942 through 1959.

 

The Canadian Plymouth and the Dodge/DeSoto variations, though, switched to the bigger Dodge 218.0-cid engine for 1940.   And the US-style Dodge increased the stroke to 4.25" giving 228.1-cid for 1942   Thus all Canadian-built Plymouths and Dodges used the same 218.0-cid engine in 1940 and 1941.  

 

The engine number was stamped on the left side of the block, just below the head and the #1 spark plug.   If the number ends with "C" you have a Canadian engine.   Otherwise it is an American unit.  That least would help determine what the engine was originally. 

 

For wheelbases, the Plymouth and DeSoto/Dodge clones used a 117" wheelbase from 1940 through 1948.   The 1940-41 LWB models were 137.5".

 

The US-style Dodge used a 119" wheelbase in 1940 and 119.5" from 1941 through 1948.   LWB models were 139.5" in 1940 and 137.5" for 1941-1948.

 

 

[TodFitch]

On 5/12/2019 at 12:58 AM, johnjnr said:

Hi 

Thanks fro the technical info here. The one issue that i seem to have is the verification of the engine size. According to the "Standard Catelohue for Chrysler 1914-2000 the export car has a 218cu in. 84 hp engine. while your info says 201.3? I'm definitely no expert and using only the info you, others and books available can offer but this one is confusing. Any further help greatly appreciated.

JJ

 

 

I will defer to B-Watson as he is much more knowledgeable than I. Looking through the responses I don't see mention that for at least several years the export versions sent to the UK had a smaller bore than those sold elsewhere. Apparently there was some sort of tax based on an arcane formula such that a smaller bore engine was desirable.

 

I've got a book of reprints of reviews of the Chrysler badged cars sold in England in the 1930s. The English reviews are pretty detailed about specifications and show things like bore and stroke as well as total displacement. But the book only seems to cover Chrysler, DeSoto and Plymouth cars what were rebadged as Chryslers when sold in England. Maybe your local library has copies of the old magazines like The Motor and/or The Autocar that would have reviews showing the displacement as sold in England.

[greg g]

So we finally got back to the first answer???

[Andydodge]

Greg.......lol.......yep you are more or less right.....but there are exceptions and the way the Oz market and possibily other export markets such as the UK are concerned it was a dogs breakfast. 

[johnjnr]

Hi Everyone and thanks for the responses. The car is definitely a US model as depicted by the Build tag on the firewall and was exported to South Africa, the engine number starts D14 so by the quite detailed info B Watson has provided I would say the engine might be a 201.3. As I have stated unfortunately the car is still in storage so I can not measure any detail or easily get more info at present, but I'm hoping to get "possession" of it very soon.

 

I will post pics once its out of its storage and its gradual revival.

 

Regards JJ