JOHN EDGE Posted July 15, 2018 Report Posted July 15, 2018 Looking forward to seeing your progress and how this turns out. Love vehicles with a story or history. Think you've got something that fits the bill. Quote
leadheavy52 Posted July 30, 2018 Author Report Posted July 30, 2018 Got some more progress finished over the weekend. After a good cleaning, I began restoring the interior panels with color-matched interior paint/primer from PPG. Very durable stuff. It dried less blue than it looked when it was wet and is pretty darn close. All in all, a $25 restore. I also was able to get the car up un jack stands to remove the wheels and start on the brakes. After measuring, I realized the car will sit about 2" lower than it sits on jack stands with the 18" wheels. Still up pretty high, for a car, er wagon. Lastly, I was able to get my rear fender welting back in shape after sitting in a box all twisted up for who know how long. I left it sit in the sun for about an hour before reworking it back to shape. The welting at the top is what it looked like before I started and the one below is just about ready to be placed back in the garage. Overall, I am pretty happy with the paint job. No brush stokes and a pretty durable, at least more durable than before. Very much enjoying learning about this car. Still a bit to do to get her back on the road, but slowly ticking away at it. My goal is to have it driving and stopping by next summer for the car show season. - Austin Quote
leadheavy52 Posted August 27, 2018 Author Report Posted August 27, 2018 More progress to report: - I removed the old bias ply tires from the rims and stacked them aside, clearing up much needed space in my garage. I went about it the cheap way and did it myself. In retrospect, it might have been worth paying a local tire shop to do it. I am stubborn though. - I managed to get the rear fenders off without too much trouble and got the original fender welting on. It was... tough to say the least. The old rubber was more like plastic and went on about as easy. I left them to sit in the sun for a bit before working them to increase their plyability (why is this not a word yet?). - I noticed that the driver side of the bumper was raised higher (about 1") than the passenger side, and the bumper guard was just barely making contact with the tailgate when it was dropped. I removed the rear bumper and am going to reshape the bracket to make it sit flush with the other. That shouldn't be too difficult. - While I was down there and removing the rear bumper valance panel, I noticed some small rust through holes (Plymouthy mentioned this area is prone to rust out). I haven't had a full chance to assess the extent of the damage, but I am prepared to replace a small section of this along with the floors when I get to that point. I'd rather tackle all of the body panel repair at once when I have the welder out. Fortunately, this area is relatively straight so a patch should be easy. - I bought a factory service manual per recommendations on this site and could not be happier. - I was able to pick up an R10G-1 overdrive unit to replace the Dodge truck transmission that is in mine currently. I am debating whether to send it to George Asche to be rebuilt, or bench test it and see what it needs. - Lastly, I removed all the seats and had them delivered to a local upholstery shop that has done some work for me prior. Going to have the seats down original-style (vinyl). He should have some samples and prices soon. P.S. - he is INCREDIBLY reasonable. I expect to have both front and rear seats done for less than $500. Here are some photos for eye-candy, or -eye-pickles, whatever your preference. -Austin 1 Quote
leadheavy52 Posted August 27, 2018 Author Report Posted August 27, 2018 (edited) - Getting the front seat out was a pain as the PO lifted the seat up with 2x4s (which rusted the bolts beyond use). I used a Sawzall to remove the bolts and a pair of vice grips to remove the rest. The seat tracks had been in the forward-most position since who-knows-when. Some white lithium grease (my best friend so far) and some good ol' fashioned elbow grease got them moving again. -Austin Edited August 27, 2018 by leadheavy52 Quote
leadheavy52 Posted August 27, 2018 Author Report Posted August 27, 2018 Thank you, TodFitch for changing the thread title! Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted August 28, 2018 Report Posted August 28, 2018 on your tailgate lower hinge panel at the rear....this is what mine basically looked like when I started the repair.....I ended up cutting the panel off and renewed it as it was so far gone...the inner metal is the other three side to the box and the top and bottom of the boxes where the hinges mount is a section of metal that the mounting nuts are affixed. On mine these nut panels were so rusted I am still in awe that the tailgate would actually pivot up and down and had not broken free of the body...the gate itself, its metal was and is yet rock solid. I would recommend a close look to lower panel inside and out....... the box metal you see is a bit heavier metal, it also has larger holes as my fix was to sandwich a 1/4 plate steel drilled and tapped for the hinge bolts to insert..the larger holes allowed for float and fit so to adjust... 2 Quote
leadheavy52 Posted August 28, 2018 Author Report Posted August 28, 2018 Wow! That’s quite the repair! I hope mine isn’t as bad off, but I know what to expect if I have to get in that deep. Thanks for the reference photos. Metal work doesn’t scare me too much. It’s a labor of love to do what I’ve seen some members do to their cars in this forum. Truly awe-inspiring. Quote
pflaming Posted August 28, 2018 Report Posted August 28, 2018 Been following along, got a suburban project going also. To paint that patina IMHO, would be one hair width away from criminal. Any car can be painted, only a very rare few survive with a patina like what you have. If you should drive it for one summer, the amount of compliments you would get would fully convince you not to paint and destroy the history of that car. My truck was in a fire that took my shop to the ground. I sanded and cleaned that fire patina and get raves every time I drive it. Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted August 28, 2018 Report Posted August 28, 2018 8 hours ago, pflaming said: Been following along, got a suburban project going also. To paint that patina IMHO, would be one hair width away from criminal. Any car can be painted, only a very rare few survive with a patina like what you have. If you should drive it for one summer, the amount of compliments you would get would fully convince you not to paint and destroy the history of that car. My truck was in a fire that took my shop to the ground. I sanded and cleaned that fire patina and get raves every time I drive it. what is criminal is knowing there is rust lurking in and behind a panel that is being referred to as patina finish when it can be prevented before the very patina eats it away to the point that the vehicle is no longer worth salvage.....please really PLEASE start calling rust by its real name....if your car was bronze brass or of non ferris metal I would accept the term patina... Quote
pflaming Posted August 28, 2018 Report Posted August 28, 2018 (edited) Patina can be rust free and can be protected without pigmented paint which is called "clear coat"! i went to the best, most highly recommended body shops where I live in search of a clear primer. Answer, none exist according to them, why? they paint cars! They sell and spray pigmented paint. I discovered that there is a primer that is lucid, to which pigmented paint and clear coat paint will adhere. Its is sold by Ace and other outlets and is called "Prep and Prime ". I used that on my truck three years ago, and sprayed semi gloss clear coat over that. Not one spot of clear is pealing and not one spot of rust has appeared in THREE years. PATINA CAN BE PROTECED AND WITH IT THE HISTORY OF THE VEHICLE. As a side note. The most highly respected paint shop in my town holds two classic car show a year. He will not park my truck with the pretty vehicles! Case closed! Edited August 28, 2018 by pflaming Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted August 28, 2018 Report Posted August 28, 2018 (edited) I can agree to disagree but at the same time I also think the flip side needs be addressed......in all of what you say you are doing to preserve your cars....you have turned a blind eye and a silent ear to the what is lurking beneath and within the very seams your so called preservation steps have not and cannot address...what you do is fine for you but you tend to promote this is the very extreme all others should take and that is the very reason for the post and why you cannot seem to accept the idea others like/prefer to go a bit deeper and KNOW the very inner/hidden conditions as well...and yes it takes time, money and a bit of labor, (not to mention a degree of skill and patience) well, more than a bit of labor, lots of time and labor to achieve a repaired and conditioned protected surface suitable for painting I can easily see why so many like to default to that look....it is cheap and easy and non invasive....the event organizer is showing you that your vehicles belong in what we used to call hard luck arena....today it is basically catch all rat class where the ratters are only defined by the artistic collection of mismatch welded onto the car for accents and impractical repurposed rabble....the mere fact he will not park you cars with others pretty much confirms the very point I am making....to this end your cars are not on par...now in the middle we have a bondo bandit what is hiding the flaw and faults with filler and flash of paint and deceiving folks into thinking this car is solid...and to that end, and the manner you display your vehicle, yours is easier to ascertain what may be hidden and that is your only valid point in my eyes...if you were to remove the panels and continue you preservation to the hidden metal...then I could see you end goal and give you some degree of accomplishment... I am not condemning you for your application...just that to promote such to others as it is only fitting to preserve the look and not the metal that is wrong...many of these guys are many years your junior and may wish to hold this car forever and wish not to have to address this stuff in their old age where the truth is truly, for the time I have left on earth is it really worth it? Edited August 28, 2018 by Plymouthy Adams Quote
pflaming Posted August 28, 2018 Report Posted August 28, 2018 Tim I fully concur with you in that the metal inside and outside, between bolted on fenders, etc to be fully preserved all metal surfaces must be cleaned, etc. Where we disagree is that pigmented paint is not the only protective final surface. The body on My truck, for example, should be pretty much dismantled and fully cleaned, rust neutralized, then protected. It is not in a protected state today. Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted August 28, 2018 Report Posted August 28, 2018 (edited) Not at all in disagreement to the very finish you want.....only by the name you call it...and the fact you like to point out that every car/truck newly found in a field or barn should continue in this state of presentation without the defining of any preservation process and the steps one should go about to ensure that damage is in check and arrested to the very best of ones ability. ... We have discussed this in numerous threads, PMs, chats in the past and phone calls. While I can understand the very look you are going for, my disagreeing replies is the shortcuts taken by ignoring the very hidden seams and panels that have not been preserved or given any attention to by yourself, that I find error with. You have in the past by above means of communication vowed to me you were going to do the extra step and KNOW what is and is not solid. But again by your own admission to me that you have not done so is again another argument that is hard to agree to so I state my disagreement.…again it is not the looks of your vehicle as much as it is about the shortcutting of steps in the total process of what you perceive is protection. You state you wish to pass this to your daughter, this is good and commendable. This is probably the biggest point I am trying to make...in what you are doing is it truly your best work...? Is this truly doing total justice to the vehicle. Edited August 28, 2018 by Plymouthy Adams Quote
pflaming Posted August 28, 2018 Report Posted August 28, 2018 Tim, you points are well taken. Before the truck goes east, she and I will have a detailed discussion on what she expects, wants, and can be done. At present it is only a very rough reconstruction job to make it useful to me. 1 Quote
leadheavy52 Posted January 13, 2019 Author Report Posted January 13, 2019 Well, the work on the Suburban continues, though slowly. My garage gets too cold to do much. I have spent my time doing rust repairs, cleaning and cataloging parts. I have a lead on some tail lights that will hopefully be here soon. I also just picked up a ‘51 Cranbrook that I will use for parts (floors, transmission tunnel, shifter handle/arm/linkage, driveshaft, bell housing, and other important bits). This will greatly expedite the search for al of these parts individually. On a side note: I did verify that my ‘52 was ordered with the high-clearance package 6.00 x 18 wheels. Only one I have still to ever see. In review of the owners manual that came with the ‘51 Cranbrook, I ran across this tidbit of information on page 28 when discussing the suburban. Pretty interesting and confirms my plans for the car. I’ll keep updating with more as the weather warms up and allows more time in the garage. Cheers! -Austin Quote
DJ194950 Posted January 13, 2019 Report Posted January 13, 2019 Just for your info-those rear tailgate painted hinges (as stock) are solid brass and look great polished. My 50 Ply. Suburban (not completed) is the same and I have polished them but I have been thinking that keeping them shiny may be a lot of work! May have them chromed but that is not cheap! Paint looks OK too!! ? DJ 1 Quote
leadheavy52 Posted May 6, 2019 Author Report Posted May 6, 2019 Finally had a good day to spend some time on old Betty Blue (I guess she named herself?). I even got my kids to help out. They're 7 and 10 and enjoy doing little bits of work here and there. My oldest got to use the impact wrench on the fuel tank strap bolts while I held the metal strap with a pair of pliers. He dug that. Anyways, I was able to drop the gas tank, then proceed to clean a giant pack-rat nest from inside. I had to stop midway through and clean out all the crap (literally) from the shopvac. I am excited though that the tank isn't beaten up or rusty. I should be able to get it back to gold with little effort. Anyone have any luck with the Eastwood products they sell for restoring gas tanks? I was happy to see that the spare tire well wasn't rust either, although all of the black rubber "caulk" is practically worthless after all of these years. I will need to go through the whole body to replace as much of this as I can. on my list was to drop the driveshaft in preparation to replace the old 4-speed truck transmission with a '52 overdrive unit. The driveshaft came off easily enough from the rear, and slid off the yoke at the front. I tried at first to remove it by removing the 4 nuts and bolts from the handbrake portion of the truck transmission, but it did not budge. Is the large nut with the cotter pin in the middle of the tailpiece the nut I should remove? I didn't want to work it too much under the car as I can focus better on it when the transmission is dropped and out of the car. My next project will be to drop the transmission and replace the floorboards, transmission tunnel and supports with that of a donor car. I should be able to also replace the inspection panel under the driver's feet as well. I have all the necessary shift linkage, shift arm and hardware as well. I am taking many pictures and documenting things as I go, but I am committed to finishing this project, one bolt at a time. There is very little body work to do (fortunately), but lots of stuff to remove and clean/paint/replace. I am hoping that by the end of the summer, I will have the chassis ready to roll and the body soon to follow. I appreciate all of the information and inspiration I have received from this site. I will undoubtedly have many more questions as we go along. -Austin Quote
DJ194950 Posted May 6, 2019 Report Posted May 6, 2019 Man, removing that 4 spd. trans looks like a bitch! Trans tunnel appears to be too low at the brake. Maybe removing the rear motor mount rubber cushions may give the clearance needed, after all they had to use some magic to get it in there. I may suggest leaving the trans top on as the shifter can be used as something to maneuver the trans out and down. Did that on many bigger forklifts with similar 4 spds. years ago. The change to a 3 spd. OD trans may take a different bell housing and the flywheel changed-adapted?? Great project, thanks for posting, DJ Quote
leadheavy52 Posted May 6, 2019 Author Report Posted May 6, 2019 24 minutes ago, DJ194950 said: Man, removing that 4 spd. trans looks like a bitch! Trans tunnel appears to be too low at the brake. Maybe removing the rear motor mount rubber cushions may give the clearance needed, after all they had to use some magic to get it in there. I may suggest leaving the trans top on as the shifter can be used as something to maneuver the trans out and down. Did that on many bigger forklifts with similar 4 spds. years ago. The change to a 3 spd. OD trans may take a different bell housing and the flywheel changed-adapted?? Great project, thanks for posting, DJ Thanks for the advice on the rear cushions! I wasn't sure how to approach sliding the transmission back enough to clear the clutch, but that may give me enough room. I have a spare bell housing for a standard 3-speed from a '51 Cranbrook so hopefully that is what I will need to mate the trans to my engine. I am definitely leaving the top on to get that sucker out of there. I could use all the grip I can get. -Austin 1 Quote
leadheavy52 Posted May 19, 2019 Author Report Posted May 19, 2019 Managed to pull some parts off the Cranbrook to swap over to the Suburban. The nice thing about having a good solid parts car is it’s like finding one st the junkyard that no one else has access too. For reference too, especially for non-factory modifications, it can’t be beat. Today, I brought home: - Oil filter housing with hard lines (my existing one has rubber lines that are all shot to hell) - center grille (my existing one is crooked and dented. This one is nice and straight) - Plymouth hood script (much better condition than mine) -fuel filter (mind never had one installed) - front valance panel support (mind has gone awol somewhere in its history) - front fender trim pieces (a little straightening and they’ll be good as new) - twin-tone horn (to turn mine into twin-tone too!) Ill be back next week for some of the interior hits as well as prep for removing the floor. My three-legged dog is wondering why I have spent so much time in the garage lately. -Austin Quote
leadheavy52 Posted May 22, 2019 Author Report Posted May 22, 2019 And the old 4-speed truck transmission is out! DJ, I first removed the rear motor mount rubber, but it was not enough to clear the floor with the brake band on the transmission still. Easy, remove the brake band. No go! After removing all of the tensioning hardware, I was still unable to get it to budge, then realizing that even if I did, I would not have the clearance needed to get it free from the trans anyways. So, Plan B. I removed 7" of tunnel behind the transmission to get it to clear. Cut right up to the edge of the floor brace so welding the piece back in will be easy. I have to do a bit of floor replacement anyways, so it won't be much of a hassle on top of that. Long and short of it; the transmission is out. 1 Quote
leadheavy52 Posted May 22, 2019 Author Report Posted May 22, 2019 This little thing ways a ton! Gotta figure out how to remove the tailpiece so I can use it with the OD trans. I know I will need to shorten my driveshaft (actually, the driveshaft that came on the vehicle, most likely from the '49 Dodge truck), but I don't know by how much yet. Fingers crossed this all goes back together as smoothly as it's come apart. -Austin Quote
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