Plymouth Owners Club meeting

[Norm's Coupe]

Johnny,

I think a lot of car clubs, both original and street rod/custom clubs may be having problems with attendance at shows and membership today. Even the NSRA has changed it's rules in the last few years. Now, you can enter your car in the NSRA meets if the car was built in 1974 or earlier. Don't believe anything can be judged after 1948 though. So, they've also slackened some of their rules to bring in more members and show participants. The original clubs should look at that and do the same.

I also agree with you that the original clubs (again, not just saying POC, you and others brought that one up) should set up different classes also. I see nothing wrong with saying a Mopar should have a Mopar engine, Ford a Ford and GM a GM. Even at the NSRA meets, they have a section set up for just such cars. However, there are a lot of cars out there running different drive trains from different manufacturers. So, there should maybe be another class for that. After all, a car can be stock looking from the outside and have just about any kind of engine under the hood. The only way you can tell the difference is by raising the hood. I will agree about chopped cars, have no use for those. But........again, it's part of the hobby to have people who do like them, and who are we to judge that person for doing it.

Sounds like you feel the same way about todays street rods/customs. After you've seen a few, they all start to look alike. Gets kind of boring after awhile looking at them. However, that's one of the reasons I didn't want to do my coupe all original. Gets kind of old hat to see myself coming and going at some show. So.......that statement works both ways. When I go to a show, I like to see all different types, including all different makes of cars. Don't want to spend a day or three just looking at just one make of car. I like to see a little of them all when I go. Doesn't matter to me if it's a Mopar, Ford or GM, or what kind of engine is under the hood.

Don C,

No one said you could not join the POC or WPC. They would love to have your dollars. However, leave you car at home with the Chevy tranny, DeSoto Big Block, dual carbs, dual exhaust, Disc Brakes, Chrome wheels and your 60's rearend. :D

[Dennis Hemingway]

Don C' date='

No one said you could not join the POC or WPC. They would love to have your dollars. However, leave you car at home with the Chevy tranny, DeSoto Big Block, dual carbs, dual exhaust, Disc Brakes, Chrome wheels and your 60's rearend. :D[/quote']

Norm, That's not what the POC membership chairman said, remember?

Dennis:rolleyes:

[Norm's Coupe]

Norm, That's not what the POC membership chairman said, remember?

Dennis:rolleyes:

Dennis, I remember that. We were both told we were not welcome, or something along those lines. And, we were only talking about making changes like disc brakes and radial tires if I remember correctly. But........I'll bet if you and I were to send in our $28 bucks along with a membership application, they would gladly accept that, and make us both full fledged members.

[Johnny S]

Johnny' date='

Gets kind of boring after awhile looking at them. However, that's one of the reasons I didn't want to do my coupe all original. Gets kind of old hat to see myself coming and going at some show. So.......that statement works both ways. D [/quote']

Norm, that's absolutely true. It does work both ways but my take (and I may be wrong on this one) is that the trend has been moving more and more to the modified end with fewer and fewer original or near original condition cars around. I guess that this continued "push - pull" of original v. modified sets up a real need for a club like POC (and others) to consider multiple categories and then get down to setting some judging standards for all to know and work towards. The more Mopar lovers we have ....... no matter what floats their boat ....... is good for all of us. But, my personal preference most likely will never "like" a SBC in a Mopar no matter how original the exterior or how good the engineering. But just like the "other" Norm said......that's just me.

[Norm's Coupe]

Johnny,

As mentioned before, I really don't care about the judging aspect of a show. After all, even if my car was good enough (or bad enough) to win a trophy or award, the award or trophy then is just another dust collector. I've already have lots of those around.

The real point comes down to club rules and the attitude of those who enforce them. If you look at the last two post by Dennis and I, that will fill you in a little. Both Dennis and I were invited not to make post on the POC forum about such things because our opinion did not agree with the by laws of the club. The invite came from none other than Jim Benjimin (spelling?) his self. That happened all in one thread on the POC forum a few years ago. So......not only do they exclude your car, they tell you what you can and cannot say on the forum. How can you get a club to change rules if they don't allow you to discuss such possible changes?

The local POC members that I've met all seem like nice people and don't mind changes either. I would join the local club, if I didn't have to join the national first. That's the only reason I haven't joined in with the local POC club. I can't see spending my money to support a club that won't even listen to suggestions. They don't have to change, but at least they should be open minded to changes. And, they could also put a possible suggestion to a vote by the membership, instead of simply saying, "No, that doesn't fit the rules."

[Mr. Belvedere]

Hey why don't you write in to the "The Bulletin" of the POC maybe as a letter to the editor, or perhaps directly to the president of the club and tell them what you said here. After all this presidents stated goals were to expand the clubs dwindling membership. Refusing to even hear other ideas is not going to get the job done.

[knuckleharley]

T

As far as the Electo-Lux' date=' guess I'm about as old as you are. By the way, they do still make them.[/quote']

If they do,they are made in China and will catch fire,causing the toxic fumes to poison you.

[Dennis Hemingway]

If they do,they are made in China and will catch fire,causing the toxic fumes to poison you.

Originally Posted by Norm's Coupe

As far as the Electo-Lux, guess I'm about as old as you are. By the way, they do still make them.

They not only still make them look at the other companies they own.

Dennis

http://www.electrolux.com/node174.aspx

[Norm's Coupe]

Hey why don't you write in to the "The Bulletin" of the POC maybe as a letter to the editor, or perhaps directly to the president of the club and tell them what you said here. After all this presidents stated goals were to expand the clubs dwindling membership. Refusing to even hear other ideas is not going to get the job done.

I dropped out of the POC back about 1998 or 99. Since I'm really an outsider to the POC I doubt that they would care. If the current membership truly feels a need for change, those suggestions should come from those members. Let's face it, a suggestion coming from a club member is going to carry a lot more weight than from an outsider. So, your suggestion is a good one, however, it should be a current member writing in for change instead of those looking in. After all, if the current membership doesn't want the change, it's not going to happen anyway.

If they did listen to an outsider like myself and even promised they were going to try and make changes, that's still not enough to make me join the national right away. I don't go by hopes and prayers, I go by action, meaning the changes would have to take place before hand. Don't want to join a club as a newbie, then do nothing but fight "city hall".

[Norm's Coupe]

If they do,they are made in China and will catch fire,causing the toxic fumes to poison you.

Actually, I believe Emerson Electric makes those (not sure offhand) and they still have a lot of plants in the US. Now, that said, some of the internal parts are probably made in China.

Speaking of China. Wife and a friend went junking in a Dollar Store yesterday. She came home with a package of ties to wrap electrical cords. They were made out of cloth with velcro. Informed her they were not heat resistant and shouldn't be used for that. Her reply was it says on the package they were made for that and they couldn't say that unless they were ok to use. Then informed her to check for UL rating. Was none on the package. Finally convinced her to use them for something else or dump them.

[Don Coatney]

If you guys recall Chet posted this very question in the form of a poll to the POC forum last April. Follow the link for the results.

http://plymouthbulletin.com/smf/index.php?topic=996.0

[Norm's Coupe]

If you guys recall Chet posted this very question in the form of a poll to the POC forum last April. Follow the link for the results.

http://plymouthbulletin.com/smf/index.php?topic=996.0

Don,

Just looked at that poll. From the way I read it, the poll seems to think they don't need changing. It's also interesting that when I was a member in the 90's they boasted a membership of about 3,000 members. The poll only shows 40 people voting. So........it would seem there is a lack of interest either way of the overall membership. Granted many of the older people don't use computers, but there still should be a higher showing than 40 hands, if they were all that interested in something being changed. They had twice that many cars at the last national show in Peoria. Think someone said there were around 100 cars that showed up for that.

[knuckleharley]

Norm, that's absolutely true. It does work both ways but my take (and I may be wrong on this one) is that the trend has been moving more and more to the modified end with fewer and fewer original or near original condition cars around.

I think this has more to do with there being fewer complete original cars around.

Even though it is MUCH easier to restore and find parts (thanks to reproductions and the internet) for 1940's and older cars today than it was in the 1970's,there are far fewer cars to find. My 33 Plymouth coupe is probably a typical example of what you find today if you are lucky and your wallet isn't so heavy you need help standing up. The motor,transmission,radiator,seat,rumble seat,toeboards,and a few other parts are missing. Add to that the fact the the entire body needs patch panels from the firewall to the rear bumper. Literally. The whole bottom of the car is rusted away. So are the floors,and there are even a few places on the chassis where thin and rusted away sections of the frame rails are going to have to be cut out and replaced. In other words,most restorers wouldn't have it for anything but parts,and then they would junk the rest.

On the other hand,I like 50's and 60's style hot rods (NOT the oh-so-trendy "rat rods") and plan on putting a multi-carb DeSoto hemi in it with a push-button 727 if I can find one,and a 56 DeSoto or Aspen rear end. This means the car was a real find for me. I have already sold the wooden wheels that were on it to a restorer,and another restorer is waiting for me to take the brakes off and ship to him. Since I have to build a transmission tunnel,motor mounts,and transmission mounts anyhow,cutting short sections of rusty frame rails out and welding in replacement parts and welding in new floors is no big deal. I'm not thrilled about having to weld in the whole damn bottom of the car,but the reality is if it hadn't been this rough and rusty I wouldn't have been able to afford to buy it. Even the weatherstripping channel in the rumble seat opening is rusted away to the point where I don't even have enough to use as a pattern. Evidentially the car sat under some pine trees for a while.

IMHO,it is a rare restorer that would even be willing to pay half of what I paid to buy this car because it just isn't nice enough to interest them.

Same deal with my 42 Dodge business coupe. I had a anal restorer tell me the car isn't worth fixing,and that I should part it out.

He may even be right from a restorers point of view because it's not really a rare high dollar car if it were perfect,and it is far from perfect. There is not one chance in hell of restoring this car and even getting half your money back when you go to sell it. I don't really give a rats ass what it is worth because I don't buy cars or work on cars for a profit. I buy and work on what I love. If other people like my cars,good. If they don't like my cars,too bad. It doesn't really matter to me either way because I fix them to suit myself and not to impress anybody or win any trophies.

About the only time I get upset is when I hear some retard calling one of my cars "junk" because it's not restored. My "junk" will stop and handle much better than their restored cars,and do it will pulling them fast enough to blow them up. They can even get driven in the rain without being ruined. If I scatch the paint,that's what they make new paint for.

I've been out driving my "junk" 48 Plymouth coupe,and had women in their mid-30's jump out of their Honda Accords and similar yuppimobiles at stoplights and run over smiling to tell me how pretty it is,and to ask me what it is.

I've even had a few ask me if I would sell it to them. How often do people who own restored cars have this happen? It doesn't because they don't drive their cars.

They also don't have the joy of looking over at a car passing on the 4 lane,and seeing a couple of little kids standing up in the back seat,waving and smiling at you as they pass. IMHO,any day you can make children smile is a worthwhile day. I'll take that over a trophy any day.

[Normspeed]

Interesting poll. I used to visit that forum and the other large Mopar forum until I found the P15-D24 group. Nice to see some of the old names, like Go Fleiter. I'm lucky, I have no interest in joining an organized club or in collecting trophies although I enjoy exchanging ideas on this forum. I say, give me a modified daily driver over a perfectly restored trailer queen any day.

[Johnny S]

I think this has more to do with there being fewer complete original cars around.

Good point, particularly the part about taking an otherwise "parts" car and keeping it on the road. The more Mopar's on the road...no matter what the configuration....the better for all of us. But that still doesn't make me have to like SBC's in Mopars.....does it?

I also checked out the poll mentioned earlier. If you read the text in the postings there is much more support for being inclusive than there is for being exclusive which is somewhat in contrast to the recorded vote. Questions like the one asked in the "poll" don't provide much real clarity into the minds of the voters .... however, the text does provide that clarity and the text supports inclusion of more than just OEM cars. Granted that priority seems to stay with OEM cars but not to the exclusion of all modified cars.

I think it comes right back to the concept of having an alternative set of standards for judging modified cars and not on whether or not original is good and everything else is "bad". I think the concept of more Mopars is better for us all is a good one.

I would like to believe that POC leadership would at least consider one (maybe more) new categories. That new category could be judged based on a new set of standards, developed by members, .... based on things like innovation, cost (maybe low vs high rather than the other way around), engineering, novelty, history, salvage story, how and who built the car or whatever else works.

[Mr. Belvedere]

The trouble is, that its a slippery slope once you open the door to modified cars, it gets complicated figuring out where to draw the line and coming up with new standards to judge them by, that the majority is happy with, would be difficult to do. Perhaps the organization is a afraid that once they allow modified cars that it may cause others who might otherwise leave their cars stock to start tweeking them a bit which would lead to even fewer factory correct examples to hand down to the next generation. Plus they would have to modify their long standing stated goal as a club. Maybe a second sister club could be started by those who like modified rides, and they could get their own rules, bylaws, officers and magazine. Then the two clubs could share some common things like national meets with seperate judges for each club. This way both could enjoy each others company with no hard feelings or contempt for one another all one big happy mopar family! Can't we all just get along!

[Mr. Belvedere]

Repent ye Mopar sinners who have defiled the good ship Mayflower with furd and chebbie parts. Save yurselves before the wrath of the Walter P Chrysler's ghost be upon you!!!!!! You who have polluted your cars with things the factory never intended, sacrifice your split exhausts, twin carbs, and disc brakes on the alter of original equipement and be cleansed and hence welcomed back with open arms into the mighty POC! O.K. so I have a flair for the dramatic. Sorry could'nt resist ha ha ha!

[Normspeed]

We're not worthy! We're not worthy!

BTW, the California POC is a good bit more accepting of modified cars. I even heard a rumour that one member is putting a Plymouth V-8 in his Plymouth buzzcoupe!

[Mr. Belvedere]

Would his name start with a T?? If so, he will soon be another fallen angel!! I won't tell headquarters if you don't!

[Mr. Belvedere]

BTW, the California POC is a good bit more accepting of modified cars. I even heard a rumour that one member is putting a Plymouth V-8 in his Plymouth buzzcoupe!

Well it is the left coast and we are a bunch of fruitcakes out here, where anything goes not even the POC secret police can stop us!

[Young Ed]

Its not just the left coasters(although they are bit more wackey). We have a 54 ply with a 350 one with a slant 6 a p15 with a long flathead like Don Cs and someone working on a T5 swap just in our chapter of the POC. Now none of those cars have ever been driven to a national meet. Those owners take other cars. But we welcome them on our local get togethers.

[Mr. Belvedere]

Was the 54 w/slant 6 featured in a Plymouth Bulletin at one time? Seems like I remember reading about that car once in the Bulletin. Pretty tolerant for the such a conservative bunch to feature something like that.

[Young Ed]

I think I rememeber that too and it was a different car. Or perhaps the same car but a different owner.

[Plymouthy Adams]

while brousing the POC web site they had a sample copy of their newsletter..it contained an article on a car with a upgraded mopar v8 intalled..still 50's engine but not what belonged in the bay...two faced you say.. I don't think anyone here is really intent on joining the POC with the aspect of entering their car for judging competition, I think it is more a matter of being accepted /recognized as owning/driving a Plymouth....the general attitude as I see is like that of the HD group..if it is not a HD then it is not a motorcycle...lord knows we have enough cults in this country...just hate to see one based on the cars I like but, that is why we have clubs and membership..to keep other out...lol

[Norm's Coupe]

Good point Tim.

This seems to have turned into a "Rag On the POC" thread. If I had any part in that, it wasn't intentional. When it comes down to it, I haven't found a formal club of any kind that I would join. Back in the 90's I checked into and joined a few local clubs and didn't care for any of them.

1) Chevy Club - That one didn't seem to do much locally except produce a small flier a few pages long. No one seemed to know answers to questions.

2) Wisconsin Mopar Muscle Club - Again, people in this club never knew how to or where to find parts when ask. Answer was always about the same. "I bought the car this way."

3) POC - Already expressed feelings on it.

4) WPC - It's a club similar to the POC and likes all the cars to be original.

5) Custom Cruiser Club (think was the name) - That seemed to be a nice club I ran into at some show. Did like it at first and joined it for one year. They had monthly cruise ins, plus the monthly meetings. Plus, as the name indicates, cars were all makes and most were customs or street rods. In addition, most of the guys did their own building for the most part. After about 6 months I received my normal monthly newsletter. In that newsletter it had a new rule they came up with for members. We had about 60 or 70 members. The new rule stated that everyone had to take turns volunteering to do something at one of the three shows they put on each year. On the surface, that makes sense and I saw nothing wrong with that. However, they went on to say, if you didn't volunteer for something you would be punished by the club in some way. ie: Like not being able to attend the Christmas party, pay a small fine or something stupid like that. As mentioned, I didn't mind the part about volunteering, I just don't think people should be forced to volunteer. Then you aren't volunteering because you want to, but you have to. Sort of like telling your kid he has to do something or else he's going to be punished somehow. So.......that's when I dropped out of that club.

So........I became a "Lone Wolf" and belong to no club after experiencing the above and I have a plaque to indicate that hanging on my garage wall. I think a club should be like we have here. Nothing real formal, but guys just helping out each other. If they can get together at someones house or meet somewhere else once in awhile to have fun, that's great. The only rules should be to have fun and build the car the way you want.