Oil Pan Removal, Engine in Car. '53 Windsor 265.

[keithb7]

Hi folks, first time for me attempting to remove the engine oil pan. I was hoping I could pull it with engine in the car. All pan bolts are out, and pan has dropped. It appears the pan cannot be removed with the steering tie rods in place. Is this correct?

Nuts have been loosened. Ready to pop tie rod ends. Before I do, am I on the right path here? Thanks.

Edited November 28, 2017 by keithb7

[DJ194950]

From your picture it sure looks to me that you will need the pitman  arm off the steer box to drop the tie-rods at the pitman and probably no need to remove the tie-rods themselves.

Have done this on similar Plymouths but not Chrysler.

Do not know if you have Harbor Freight stores in Canada but they are not all that expensive. Maybe borrow one?

DJ

[garbagestate 44]

I can't say what a '53 is like but on a '47 I got it out of the way by cranking the steering wheel all the way over to one side.That got the arm enough out of the way to drop the pan.

[keithb7]

@garbagestate 44 genius! Sometimes we can't see the forest through the trees. I will try this and report back.

[Dodgeb4ya]

Pop one or both steering link rods off @ the boomerang and turn the wheel to move the boomerang to the right or left for pan clearance.

Remove the pan.

[keithb7]

My ball joint splitter, scissor type won't work. It's in there tight. Punched with a good hammer many times around the seat and on the nut on the end. Will try a locate a different type of puller tomorrow. I have a fork too, but they tend to tear up the boot, I want to re-use the joint so I'll defer from using a fork.

Edited November 26, 2017 by keithb7

[Dodgeb4ya]

The 1949-54 chrysler steering linkage is completely different than any plymouth or dodge cars. That is not a pitman arm that the two steering link rods are connected to. 

It's called the intermediate steering arm supported at the front of the frame with two tapered roller bearings and is shaped like a boomerang.

If you don't have the correct tie rod removal  tool... kinda looks like a two jaw gear puller (won't damage the boot)

Also shown is another poor mans hacker way....!! ???

[dpollo]

 Page 7-16 in the shop manual recommends removal of the clutch cover and the pan can then be slid back.  dipstick must be removed and the oil float may need to be lifted.

It does not suggest that removal of the tie rods is necessary but as I recall, the counterweight on the crankshaft can get in the way.

Removing the clutch cover on a fluid drive can be a chore.   Good luck.

[Dodgeb4ya]

I did this same job with the same suspension not too long ago...

[keithb7]

I just picked up a new tie rod separator. Off to go try it shortly. Tapping on the oil pan it sounds like there might be something loose in bottom. Yikes.

We'll see what treasures lay in the sludge. More to come soon.

[keithb7]

Tool in this pic worked well. The pan came out easily with 1 tie rod off and then turn the steering far right to the stops. 

Inside of my engine looks a lot better than I expected. Camshaft looks great. Someone changed the oil often. A little sludge in the bottom of the pan. Not bad. The cork in the u-section of the pan, front and rear was rock hard. Once I get this all cleaned up and resealed I think a good bit of the oil drips will stop. I pulled the pickup screen and popped off the cover. I found a few very small pieces of that I think is tin. Bearing lead-tin overlay maybe? Not much 2 or three small pieces that I could easily stab and split with a small jeweler's screw driver. This could be from an earlier engine rebuild? Who knows. I can't say for sure. Engine oil pressure is great.  Now I am wondering if I should consider a full bearing roll-in. 

Edited November 28, 2017 by keithb7

[keithb7]

Here are a couple of money-shots for those who'd like to have a peek. It's been a lot of years since I have been into the bottom end a car engine.

Considering its 1940's design and limitations, I am thinking it looks pretty clean. I was expecting a lot worse.

    

Edited November 28, 2017 by keithb7

[Dodgeb4ya]

Good job with the "right" tool!

Engine does look clean too.

If you have good real  hot summer Idle oil pressure and at cruising above 45lbs I'd leave it alone.

If you really feel the need to replace the bearings I would only use nice clean NOS MoPar/Federal Mogul or Michigan bearings.

My opinion on current modern day replacement bearings is that they (chineesy parts) are not as good as OE.

[keithb7]

Pan cleaned up well today in the huge dishwasher (aka parts washer) at work. I'd like to remove the remaining external rust then paint the outside. What do you recommend for rust removal? Fine sandpaper? Steel wool? Scotch-brite? I have access to a glass bead machine, but would rather not. Those glass beads, you just can't get them all out. They find themselves in every little nook & cranny. They kill internal engine parts fast, when they later become dislodged.

 

 

Edited December 14, 2017 by keithb7

[Uberchin]

Let it sit in some Evapo-Rust. It is some amazing stuff that is non-toxic and biodegradable. It should only take around an hour to work and you can reuse in over and over if you strain it. I got a gallon of it at Tractor Supply for $20. 

[Dodgeb4ya]

220 grit sand paper 1st... then 320.

That's what i did on one a month ago  just like yours.

One hour later and looked like new... smooth as a baby's butt

[garbagestate 44]

A few years back I pulled the pan on my 57 Ford y block with 60k miles on it just to clean the sludge that I knew had to be there.The stuff was almost a half an inch thick and had the feel of plumbers putty. By the time I got it all out I must have upped the pan capacity by close to half a quart.It was almost up to sump height.It was a filthy job but really worth it.

[keithb7]

3 minutes ago, garbagestate 44 said:

A few years back I pulled the pan on my 57 Ford y block with 60k miles on it just to clean the sludge that I knew had to be there.The stuff was almost a half an inch thick and had the feel of plumbers putty. By the time I got it all out I must have upped the pan capacity by close to half a quart.It was almost up to sump height.It was a filthy job but really worth it.

My pan had maybe a 1/4" of sludge only in the lowest part of the pan. Going forward I'm thinking I'll run modern Rotella 10W30 with the 1200 PPM Zinc.

Have any of you folks ever pulled your oil pump apart to get a good look at wear? Was thinking about that today too. Lots of thoughts. Also go to thinking about those little pieces of tin I found in the screen. It could have come from a torque part as well. The engine oil goes through the torque and back. Oil goes into the oil crank passages at the middle main bearing it seems. It was suggested if I wanted to have a look at a few rod bearings, go with 1 and 6. Furthest away from the oil pump. If anything is going on with oil pressure,  wear will start there most likely. That makes sense.

[Dodgeb4ya]

You have one of those 10-11 quart oil changes to do every oil change! Fluid torque drive.

I'm sorry about that!

[keithb7]

#1 bearing looks pretty decent. The bearings read: Clevite 3 77 CB 90P. Any idea what that means?

A little bit of some something tiny went around there once. The bearing did it's job well.

Back side:

Edited November 28, 2017 by keithb7

[Uberchin]

I thought we are supposed to only run 30W Non-Detergent oil in these Engines? I know to definitely stay away from Synthetic because the seals will start to leak. What is the purpose to NOT run oil with detergent beyond kicking up pre-existing sludge and pushing through the engine? If the engine is clean (ie. Pulling the pan and removing all the sludge) can we then run non-synthetic detergent oils? Thanks.

[keithb7]

So you want to dabble in the old car scene hey? Welcome to your first classic car. LOL.

I already swept away one pile of this 50 year old road grime, dust, oil and grease.  That was just the stuff I pried off to find nuts on the tie rod ends and steering banana link. This last effort was just the crud up around the torque converter housing and rear area of the oil pan. From the bottom side, you can't tell there's an oil pump down there. So much scum built up. This oil pan of mine has been leaking for years and years I estimate.  Add in the crankcase down draft tube, it all piles up and sticks in every possible place down there. It's going to look so nice when I'm done. Good times, chipping away hard tar.

 

 

Edited November 28, 2017 by keithb7

[Dodgeb4ya]

Those bearings look like they have been replaced once already- quite awhile ago looks like...with standard size Clevite bearings.

The factory original engine  bearings would have  been Mopar with the MoPar # printed in black on the backside of the bearing.

You can check the bearing  clearance with plastigage if you want to go farther. They should be a kinda dull gray color.

Search Google for normal engine bearing appearance.

[keithb7]

11 hours ago, Uberchin said:

I thought we are supposed to only run 30W Non-Detergent oil in these Engines? I know to definitely stay away from Synthetic because the seals will start to leak. What is the purpose to NOT run oil with detergent beyond kicking up pre-existing sludge and pushing through the engine? If the engine is clean (ie. Pulling the pan and removing all the sludge) can we then run non-synthetic detergent oils? Thanks.

My understanding is once the oil pan sump has been cleaned out, and the filter housing, ect,  of sludge, we can then run detergent based modern conventional oils. 

I have a question about the oil pick up screen cover. I pried it off, cleaned it out and re-installed the cover. There seems to be a ramp or angle in the cover, on one part only. Does this ramp have to point in a certain direction? Ramp to rear? Or does it not matter? Thanks.

[Matt Wilson]

Clevite 77 bearings are a brand of bearing, considered by many to be the best bearings available.  Someone I believe to be knowledgeable on the subject says the original Mopar bearings were equivalent to Clevite 77,  and predated the Clevite 77 name.  As mentioned above, the originals would have said Mopar, not Clevite 77, so I believe your bearings were replaced at some time.