1949 Wayfarer Roadster installing a 360 dodge will it work?

[Sixpakrob]

I am still sixpakrob!  I guess i need to know how to take this motor out.  Take fenders off? hood off? what is the smart way, disconnect motor or take motor and trans all out at once?

 

[Andydodge]

Which engine?..........the Superbirds? or the Wayfarers?...........take 'em both out & swap them over........lol.........I'm sure the Wayfarer will enjoy the ride.........lol.......btw I assume the 6pak refers to the carbys.....lol..........your car?..........andyd

[Sixpakrob]

yes six pack carbs.  not sure if the 440 will fit in the wayfarer, but now sure how it is the best way to remove motor on the 49.

[Bobacuda]

Way back when I had a '51 Plymouth that I pulled the engine in:

1.      Take lots of photos, bag and tag everything you remove.  Photos and notes are your friend.

2.      Remove the hood.

3.      Disconnect and remove the battery.

4.      Drain the radiator and engine block

5.      Remove the fan. 

6.      Remove all hoses and pull the radiator.

7.      Disconnect the fuel line.

8.      Disconnect the carb linkage.

9.      Disconnect the exhaust pipe.

10.  Remove the carb, intake and exhaust manifolds (they are bolted together). 

• IMPORTANT -   There are two well-hidden bolts or studs that go through the exhaust manifold into the block, pretty much down low, one on each side of carb.  If you are not familiar, look online.  You will not see them from the top, but you will be able to feel the holes to get a wrench on them.  Plan on lots of broken studs.

1.      Disconnect the oil pressure gauge line.

2.      Remove the generator.

3.      Disconnect all wires to engine.

4.      Disconnect the driveshaft and pull the transmission.

5.      Remove the throwout bearing, clutch and flywheel.  If your car has Fluid Drive, you will have a “power coupler” (think torque converter) and not a flywheel to remove.

6.      Pull two head bolts and connect a chain for your lift.  I did not pull the head, at this time, but others do.

• Support engine

1.      I left the bell housing in place, so I removed the bolts holding the engine at the bell housing first.

2.      Remove the bolts holding the front motor mount.

3.      While one person kept the engine from hitting anything, I used the engine hoist to lift the engine out of the engine bay. 

• Slight downward tilt to the back. 

• Make sure the crank gets clear of the bell housing or it will drive you nuts trying to figure out what is holding the engine to the bell housing.

 

After I had it out, I found that the current engine stands are lousy for this engine.  It took a lot of engine stand manipulation to make it stand right and the engine wanted to flip the stand when it was rotated.  I have seen that other members have made engine stands to facilitate the work and to run the reassembled engine before putting it back in.  If I ever do another one of these, I will definitely make a run stand to allow for much easier tuning and setting the valves when hot.

 

Anyhow, this is what I did.  It was fun working on and displaying an engine that damn few people have.  Want it to look old school cool?  Ribbed head, dual exhaust, dual carbs, slightly better cam, electronic ignition…  Depends on what you want.  Good luck.

 

[Sixpakrob]

Hey thank you for all that information.  Well thought out. So i guess no fenders needed to removed. Just the hood. sounds so complex. 

 

[Andydodge]

Just remember when removing the driveshaft and gearbox that they don't get jammed against the bolt threads or the clutch input shaft and make life much more complicated..........lol..........the 1st time I removed all this 45 yrs ago I didn't know what I was doing and ended up having to remove the engine, bellhousing, trans and driveshaft all in one go......off course they were each undone from each other but silly me had let each piece drop down and jam into each other...........lol............was a 15 foot long sausage.........andyd. 

[Sixpakrob]

If I find a flat head six and will a six speed or automatic will bolt up without any issues?

[Flatie46]

43 minutes ago, Sixpakrob said:

If I find a flat head six and will a six speed or automatic will bolt up without any issues?

They offer a kit to bolt a T5 5speed to a flat 6. Can't remember who offers it, there was a kit for sale here in the for sale section of the forum recently, may still be there.

[Don Coatney]

1 hour ago, Sixpakrob said:

If I find a flat head six and will a six speed or automatic will bolt up without any issues?

Depends on what you call issues. With any transmission swap there will be issues.Yes there are kits that claim "bolt on" but they don't mention issues such as floor pan modifications, emergency brake modifications, driveshaft modifications, pilot bearing modifications, throw out bearing holder modifications, ETC, ETC.

[Sixpakrob]

Ok my trans I may not change, if I change   motor will there be issues, mine is the semi automatic, but  motor had an manual tranny attached 

[Bobacuda]

Is yours a Gyromatic or a Fluid Drive? 

(Found this on the HAMB) "Chrylsler applied the term Fluid Drive to a number of different applications. Most common was Dodge's Fluid drive which was a regular 3 speed transmission with a regular clutch and throw out bearing bolted to a 1 to 1 fluid coupler. No torque multiplication, in actuality it was a 1 to .95 deal. It did allow you to select one gear by using the clutch, then by using the brake and gas pedal drive around albeit not very briskly, or you could drive it just like a three speed of the day. Gyromatic was introduced in 49 or 50 and was Dodge's version of the M-6 semi automatic. As stated before the clutch was used to select a drive range, either low or high, then with a series governors solenoids, igntion interuptors, etc. the tranny would shift up after 12 mph with a release gas pedal, and a sufficient amount of time. Later versions of these had a slight torque multiplication factor. This transmission was very similar to DeSoto's Tip Toe. Was used through 54/55 when the Powerflite 2 speed fully automatic (precursor to the Torqueflite) was introduced."

If you want an automatic, look for a newer flathead 6 car with a Powerflite or a Torqueflite - you might even find one of the later 50 model engines with a 2bbl carb.  Or, rebuild your engine and get a Wilcap adaptor for the automatic transmission you want (http://www.wilcap.com/chryslerfh.html).  While there, check out Wilson's flathead 6 in the photos - think how nice that would look in your car...

A Fluid Drive is quirky, different and sometimes a pain, but I have to admit that I have learned to appreciate it.  Ask Don Coatney how he likes his.  Oh, and once again, you would have the Wow factor of having the only car at a show with Fluid Drive, and by being the only guy there that knows how it works.

 

[Sixpakrob]

I am not sure what it is, hoping to just change  motor but knowing with LA s motors the need a hole in crankshaft to change auto to standard  transmission so..  I am wanting to make sure I don't any issues 

[Sixpakrob]

11 hours ago, Don Coatney said:

Depends on what you call issues. With any transmission swap there will be issues.Yes there are kits that claim "bolt on" but they don't mention issues such as floor pan modifications, emergency brake modifications, driveshaft modifications, pilot bearing modifications, throw out bearing holder modifications, ETC, ETC.

Not changing transmissions just motors

 

[Don Coatney]

15 hours ago, Sixpakrob said:

If I find a flat head six and will a six speed or automatic will bolt up without any issues?

 

2 hours ago, Sixpakrob said:

Not changing transmissions just motors

 

Sure fooled me. Good luck with your project.

[Plymouthy Adams]

On ‎6‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 1:07 AM, Sixpakrob said:

Hey thank you for all that information.  Well thought out. So i guess no fenders needed to removed. Just the hood. sounds so complex. 

 

if this sounds complex...wait till you start turning the wrenches....talking about it is always the easy part...

[wayfarer]

...yeah, for a guy with a SuperBird you have a confusing trail of posts....maybe its just me, perhaps a second cup-o-joe will clear things up.

Do you have a 360 with trans or not? Are you planning to install same in car? If so then plan on many hours of work; this is not a bolt-in. Will they fit? absolutely! Will it be easy? absolutely not. Street Rod Action magazine (looong gone) did a very in-depth story many years back detailing this swap but I cannot find a link to it, perhaps someone else can.

Swap trans on the L6? Yup, also doable. Quick and easy? Nope.  Wilcap was mentioned; Pat has an adapter for the GM trans. If you want to use a Mopar trans then you have to talk with me.

Either way, plan on a new rear axle so you can have an e-brake. Explorer and Cherokee are both good fits and easy to find.

Not sure if fester ever finished his swap but some info here:

 

Edited June 24, 2017 by wayfarer

[Sixpakrob]

I guess so on the trail of posts!  Posting from phone is not so good!  I have a 360  and  transmission ! I found a flat head six motor with standard trans for sale, wondering if motor will bolt up to my trans! I am all mopar but open to what works!! 

[MackTheFinger]

Simple solution, take it to Big Chief. 

[wayfarer]

Any Mopar L6 will bolt up to your existing trans, however be cautious of the flywheel.  The US version of the 201-208-218 flywheel cannot be used on the others without some starter issues.

[Sixpakrob]

OK, I crawled under and looked around.  The rear end resembles a 8 3/4 with bolt at the hub, is it the same basically?  Also when pulling the motor do you take motor and trans all at once?  the trans looks massive.  I am going to go ahead and put the 360 motor and trans in.  I have parts for sale off the car, well motor and trans, two extra carbs... any advice?  Thanks

[wayfarer]

No, not an 8¾.  Start looking at your pik-n-pull for an Explorer 8.8 with or without disc brakes....you do have a pile-o-work ahead.

If you send an email address I'll scan and send copies of the mentioned rod magazine article....or even paper copies if you wish.

I'll suggest taking a lot of photos, talking with members here that have actually done something similar, and measure 3 times before cutting anything.......