New 47 1-ton Dually - Advice Requested

BobB · August 21, 2016

I just picked up a 1947 1-ton Dually that I plan to use more as the heavy hauler and let the 52 B3B be the daily driver.

It's pretty complete, original 6v system. Wiring is totally shot and must all be replaced. Brake lines are crimped flat or missing (metal) or dry rotted (hoses). Body metal is in pretty decent shape (top side) and has been coated in primer. Frame has been coated in thick black paint. 3-speed on floor shifts smoothly and the band emergency brake works well (as demonstrated getting it off the trailer). Rolls and steers well, but have been told the motor doesn't run. It came from up north (Phillie) and has rust probs underneath.

A few questions for you more experienced folk.

1) I'm leaning toward frame off not because I'm trying to make a show truck, but because that's the only way I know to get at all the places that need protection. Am also wondering if I should trust that the thick black coating means the frame is protected. I can see a few places elsewhere that appear to have a coat over rusty areas. Should I strip the frame back down to bare metal then make sure it's properly protected. An added bennie would be getting to see the frame serial number. I had hoped to get it from the 1991 title, but it was titled using the P23 engine code that tells me it wasn't original to the truck. Thoughts?

2) Stay 6v or convert to 12? I'm thinking about wiring with a gauge for 6v initially and can convert to 12v later if I must. I don't plan to add a bunch of modern electrical gadgets to this one so I think I'd like to stay original. No sure yet if windshield wipers are electric - it appears that there are hoses headed up there so I'm guessing it may be vacuum. Should I find a way to change it to electric? I also may want to find a heater to add at some point.

3) Engine. It has a 218. I think the P23 is a Plymouth from 1952. Looks complete and starter and generator look to be in great shape externally. I have a rebuilt 230 that I was planning to put in the 52 B3B, but would it have better power/torque for bigger loads in the 47 1-ton? Original thought was a fresh engine that would be more reliable to the daily driver.

4) Bed? There's nothing on but frame behind the cab. The bed pieces that can be found are pretty pricey, I'm estimating over $3k not counting wood for the floor. Was thinking about an all wood flatbed starting with railroad ties for a base. Guess a welded on steel flatbed with stake pockets might be stronger an/or more versatile. Has anybody had to make a similar decision? If so, what did you consider and what route did you go??

5) Does anybody have info on the gearing ratio(s) in these trucks. The shifter has a push-pull knob that I assume might mean there's something extra in the rear that will help with low end torque and maybe high end speed. Anybody know what kind do road speeds you can get from a flathead with one of these? I assume it's no worse than the 45mph I get out of the 52 3speed with essentially the same engine.

6) Fuel system. It's hooked up to the stock mechanical fuel pump with a single barrel carb and all the linkages move freely, but it appears a return spring or two will need to be replaced along with the choke and throttle cables that won't budge. The tank looks like it's been replaced and there appears to be a hatch under the seat to give access to the sender unit. Any advice on what I need to check out first and what I should consider replacing just to be sure?

Well, there should be something in one of these systems that'll get our more experienced members a talking. Hopefully there are others that'll benefit from the answers and all the good advice as well.

Thanks in advance for spilling your smarts all over this thread.

- Bob

Young Ed · August 21, 2016

Something is odd here. I would think the transmission in a 1ton would be a 4spd not three. I would also be surprised to find a 2spd rear end in the 1ton. Do you have pics? Since you are looking for the frame # I take it the serial tag is missing?

TGP · August 21, 2016

I agree with Ed.

You need to come up with a model or at least a serial number

That can be decoded.

That truck sounds like 1 1/2 ton or larger, probably a 2 ton if it

Indeed has a 2 speed rear.

I'm sure it has a 4 speed trans.

Tom

jpartington · August 21, 2016

To question number 4. My 52 1 ton dually used to be a grain truck back in the day. With an all wooden box and a hydraulic hoist. And all the sides are removable to convert into a flat bed. I got the truck last year and the wood was shot. So I built an all new bed (out of wood) and I think it looks very nice. I don't believe this wood was 100% original but I'll bet close to. And it lasted all the way till 2015, and it wasn't even treated. So if you have any worries about life of a wood bed I would say the life is long. And plus now a days you can replace with green treated (as I did). Wood is also potentially cheaper then metal. Just my thoughts. If you would like some more details of the bed I made I can post pictures. Otherwise my profile pic will show a quick view of it.

Edited August 21, 2016 by jpartington

MBF · August 21, 2016

How many lugs on the wheels, and what size rubber does it have? If its a 2 speed, it's like 8.xx on the low side, and 6.xx on the high side. Where is reverse on the shift lever? I would think that would have a 4 or 5 speed in it. Mike

JBNeal · August 21, 2016

1) Locate the serial number, it'll tell the truth more than any one person could tell ya...you can request a build card at some point to really know how the truck was supposed to leave the factory. A thorough inspection of the frame is a must if you suspect there may be rust issues. I have seen rust thru on the frame of some parts trucks near the forward rear spring hangers that could be a bear to repair properly. Who knows what kind of coating is on that frame...if ya remove paint in suspected rusty areas on the frame, you could go back and top coat it with more black paint...only the sharp eyed nit pickers may question why the frame paint has some inconsistencies in it.

2) If you rewire for a 6V system, then you could update to a 12V system later if you feel the need. New wiring, including battery cables, usually solves most problems with the 6V systems as impedance is greatly minimized from the corroded and tattered original wiring. I would think there are electric wiper options available for the '47 as the cab is pretty much the same as in vintage Power Wagons.

3) The engine argument of 218 vs 230 is something I too have wrassled with of late. My '48 has a '55 Plymouth 230 that has been in there for half a century...I have found a '50 Plymouth 218 that is more accurate compared to the original engine that the truck left the factory with, but it's not really original either. And as far as power difference between the 218 and the 230, a 218 can be massaged to pump out 230 power levels, which are still quite low by today's standards. From a cost perspective, if you have an engine ready to install, I say use it, cuz that's probably how that truck got the replacement engine in the first place.

4) If this truck left the factory as a chassis cab, you could put anything back there that you want...except for a swing set, that would just look odd.

5) From what I remember when we hauled grain in the D700 when I was a kid, Dad would pull the knob to climb hills and hit the knob to get speed on flat grades...and it wasn't much for speed but it would get down the road. These 2 speed rear axles were used to get the most torque from the engine when loaded so the truck would not stall or lug, not so much to keep up with the lead foots on the interstate.

6) Fuel delivery can vary by usage. If you upgrade to a 2bbl carb setup, then ya need to split the exhaust, so there's more work to be done on the engine there. The mechanical setup works if maintained, but some have better results with the electric pump for delivery, others have the mechanical pump on the engine with an electric pump near the fuel tank as a booster/backup. Inspect the tank for any rust, sludge, possible leaks. A new replacement appears to be available if ya have trouble with what ya have now :cool:

BobB · August 22, 2016

Wow, great info and questions raised. The first thing I figured out from your responses is that I shouldn't trust all the info in an EBay ad. I may have a bit of a Frankenstein. We'll see how it turns out. Guess the first task is to figure out what it is.

Here's what I know for sure. I measure the wheelbase at 133" and the frame width at the rear is 40-1/8 to 40-1/4". According to page 222 of the shop manual, that should mean that it is a WD21. The cross members don't quite match the figure, though.

The body and frame configuration match plate D (1-1/2 ton) in the parts book (pg 0-14) and plate 110 on pg 23-1 with one potentially important difference -- these illustrations show the frame going straight over the rear axle instead of arching up like mine does. That arch appears to be unique to the WC/WD model types. There are no body pieces behind the cab and the running boards end at the rear of the cab.

I've posted a couple of photos that may help with the "what is it" question.

I'll address the other items raised in additional posts to keep them shorter.

Thanks so much for all the feedback. Bob

BobB · August 22, 2016

Another item of question is the transmission and differential.

Since it doesn't run at present, I can't tell for sure where Reverse is in the pattern. With the clutch depressed, it shifts smoothly through an "H" pattern. I probed pretty hard at all 4 points and couldn't get it to go outside the "H".

the reason I thought it might have a two speed differential was the gadget attached to the stick (picture attached). Having researched this a bit more, I don't find any penetration into the differential consistent with this feature (differential picture attached).

Might this indicate that the rear axle has been switched out and is no longer a two speed?

Are there typical problems that would prevent being able to shift into reverse? There seems to be agreement that a 3-speed isn't likely on a larger truck. The engine came from a Plymouth, I guess they could have brought the transmission along with it.

BobB · August 22, 2016

Jpartington: I would really appreciate pictures of your wood bed when you get a chance. Especially if you could show me how you attached it to the frame. Thanks for the encouragement, I really think that's the way I want to go. Bob.

BobB · August 22, 2016

MBFowler - The wheels are 6 lugs and the tires are 6.5 x 16" six ply bias on both front and rear.

I can't really tell where reverse fits into the pattern since it isn't drivable at present.

Hopefully, i can find additional clues by crawling under and looking for a model number before too long. Lot of gunk under there though so I don't know what I'll find.

Thanks, Bob

Dodgeb4ya · August 22, 2016

That's a 1 ton for sure with the rear two frame rails bent down! :eek:

If you can shift the shifter into four different positions in an "H" shift pattern you have a fthree speed trans.Reverse is to the left and up.

The rear end looks correct and original....no two speeds available in a dodge 1 tonner.

Edited August 22, 2016 by Dodgeb4ya

TGP · August 22, 2016

Need a vin # to decode here

http://www.t137.com/registry/help/decode.php

Still looks like 1 1/2 ton to me.

Definitely a single speed rear end. Have no idea what the switch on

The shift lever was for.

That's a later two speed electric shift switch that appears to be disconnected.

That era truck if it had a two speed would have a cable controlled vacuum valve on the firewall

Controlled by a cable knob/switch on the shift lever.

Tom

Young Ed · August 22, 2016

Another item to check. Crawl under the front fenders. The 1ton fenders would have no bracing at the rear and would have a cutout to mount to the running board. The 1.5 ton and up have a brace and no cutout. You've got patching going on back there. I'm wondering if maybe someone took a 1ton frame and maybe a bigger body?

jeffsunzeri · August 22, 2016

It appears that what you have there is a 1941 or 1942 WD-21 1 ton truck that left the factory with a flatbed. It is nearly identical to mine.

It also appears that the rear of the frame is bent downward. Hopefully its just a figment of the photo lighting and angle. The flatbed is 90% wood. The side rails and other metal bits may be difficult to find, but not impossible.

The switch on the shifter is just an old electrical switch probably used for who-knows-what light, but it has nothing to do with your ratios.

The rear end looks like the normal 5.?? ratio rear end, which is pretty near bullet proof, and all parts are easy to come by.

I did a total re-wire on mine in about 20 hours, the most difficult part being the wires from the gas tank sender. Keep it 6 volt as there's no need for 12 volt, especially in this truck which is too noisy for radio operation anyway.

Since its an early model, the cab mounts differently from the 46-47 models and the dash is slightly different too. The distinguishing feature of the 41-42 cab is the stainless trim running horizontally on the grill.

Very nice truck! Check out the Yahoo Job Rated site which has lots of specific help for these vintage haulers.

BobB · August 23, 2016

Additional evidence in pictures.

People have questioned both the year and the capacity, so I've posted several more photos of things people indicated will help us decide. Please let me know what you think. The truck was sold to me as a 1947' 1-ton Dually. I've measured the wheelbase at 133" and a smidgen over 40" across the frame rails.

The front fender has only one brace and it's in the front - no rear brace. The rear edge of the fender does have a cut-out notch to connect to the running boards (see passenger side photo).

Here's a close-up of the grill for its help in determining the year.

Someone also mentioned the dash as helpful in knowing which year model. I've posted a dash photo.

Yes, the frame is bent downward at the ends. I put a 2-by across the two middle rails (photo). The ends where 7/8" lower at the cab and 1-3/4 lower at the rear end of the rail. There are mysterious notches in the top edge to both rails right over the axle (photo). Too identical to just be buckling.

I also threw in a couple of photosensitive of the rear springs as that might give a clue about the size.

The bracket that appears to be for a spare tire may well not be stock. It is SOLID. thick steel. (Photo)

Just let me know if there are other photos, measurements, etc, that would help and I'll post them. Thanks for all the help getting to the bottom of this. Do I have a 47 1-ton or a 41-42 1-1/2 ton or larger?

Thanks to all. Bob

BobB · August 23, 2016