Washed engine bay, now no start

[pyrodork]

Bought a running, driving 48 Dodge 4 door the other day. Drove it 140 miles home. Engine bay appears to be original: wiring, etc. Rinsed out the bay with a hose as a precursor to degreasing the bottom end and now I can't get it started. Granted, I've only started/driven it on the day I bought it. I blew out the extra water with an air hose soon after washing.

Figuring there was water set up somewhere, I blew out the distributor and cap, and the plug wires to the best of my ability. No go. But I flooded the engine and fuel was dripping from the carb and fuel pump. Waited hours, still nothing. Killed battery. Charged, and flooded again. Left distributor cap off overnight.

Today, after another no start, I pulled the plugs and added some marvel before work. The two closest to the firewall were wet with fuel. Plugs looked good otherwise. Bought new plugs after work, still no start... but I got a quick fire a few times. Killed the battery. Jumped the battery, some more quick fires, but nothing lasting. Pulled fuel bowl and cleaned. Filled with fresh gas, reinstalled. The order may be off, but you get the idea.

After pulling the oil bath, I noticed the outside of the Stromberg carb appeared to be soaked in fuel. I removed the line and needle, seemed fine, not stuck (but needle not against the bowl). Removed the top cover, looks fine. Pump squirts a spritz. Added more fuel to the bowl, but I admit I don't know what I'm looking for.

Did I fudge up a fuel gasket, you think? I mean, with the outside of the carb so... wet? Maybe I need to adjust the float? Too much crud underneath to tell if the fuel pump gasket is sealing perfectly, but the bowl did fill up the rest of the way after cleaning and reinstalling it. And $50 for a carb rebuild kit seems excessive, but reluctantly acceptable.

Battery is charging now. Anything else I should check? I think once it goes, it'll be fine.

Seller didn't have this much trouble starting it before.

[Plymouthy Adams]

go back to square one...water added....go from there...at no time have you stated in your drying of the distributor cap that you had ignition...why are you looking into fuel issue with no affirmed ignition.

[pyrodork]

Since drying the distributor and adding new plugs, it has fired, just not stayed running. Since it started and ran well before, all is not lost. Check for spark at each plug, I guess?

I'm just concerned with the wet carb. I don't have much time until next week to work on it, so if I can air some stuff out or order some gaskets while I wait, I might as well.

[Don Coatney]

Do you think there is a possibility the new plugs might be oil fouled after the MMO treatment? You might want to invest in a spark plug sand blaster. 

 

[Jeff Balazs]

Try a little bit of WD40 in the distributor. Spray inside of cap and wipe off excess. And a tiny bit on the points and condenser. Then check quality of spark using a plug tester or whatever you have like an old plug.

 

Jeff

[jeffsunzeri]

Check and replace that battery if it's at all questionable. From your description, it is dying far to easily and may certainly be contributing to the hard start/no start condition.

If it's a wet lead/acid battery, check with a load tester and hydrometer.

If it's an Optima, check the voltage after charging and after loading. A good battery will have at least 7 volts at the terminals.

[pyrodork]

Getting good spark at all six. I wonder if the wet carb is from fuel getting stopped up in there. Maybe I got the vacuum advance?

I only got one quick fire tonight... The first try.

Got the owners manual in the mail today. Service manual should be here soon. Owners manual says to hold the throttle part way when starting. If flooded, press the throttle to the floor. Seems odd. So pumping the throttle a couple times is wrong?

[plymouthcranbrook]

Every pump shoots a spray of gas into the engine.  This contributes to the flooding.

Edited April 15, 2016 by plymouthcranbrook

[Plymouthy Adams]

at WOT the volume of air passing through the throat is not sufficient to draft fuel at crank speed..basically cutting fuel flow at cranking..if flooded..remember to keep at WOT as if you release your accelerator pump will apply more fuel.....

 

read and understand the operation of the sisson choke..it is not like your later varieties...

[pyrodork]

WOT? I'm not familiar with acronyms that aren't army related!

No fires yet today. Time for the almighty employer.

I changed out the cap and rotor for an extra one I have, no change. Saw a post about dumping 1/3 aerosol can cap full of gas down carb, so I tried that. Nothing. Tried jumping with a 12v battery, nothing. Decided to move on to the noisy speedo and got that re-lubed. Still need to figure out how to get the hand brake cable out. Stuck like glue. Currently have another 6v battery charging. Hasn't seen a lot of use in the past few years, but still powers up my Model A.

[Plymouthy Adams]

ah come on now..with that list of cars and your messing with them you do not know WOT is wide open throttle...and that at crank speed it prevents further introduction of fuel to the cylinders.

Edited April 15, 2016 by Plymouthy Adams

[Don Coatney]

Not sure about the logic of dumping more fuel into a suspected flooded engine. So putting that aside I suggest you remove all the spark plugs and use compressed air to blow into the spark plug holes to hopefully dry them out. Next install new spark plugs as you have no means to clean them properly. I do hope you are not using Champion plugs as they are known to not work well in these engines. Hopefully you have not fuddled with the firing order and static timing. Install clean, properly gaped spark plugs. Very slowly depress the foot feed to WOT and keep it there. In short 5-6 second bursts engage the starter motor allowing 5-10 seconds between starting attempts. If the engine fires maintain high RPM's in the 1500-2000 range for a few seconds to blow all the crud out of the cylinders. Next return to the forum and report your results. Then erase all that junk in your signature line as nobody cares to read it every time you make a posting. 

 

The old:
Early 1930 Ford Model AA Truck
1937 Plymouth P4 Deluxe 2-door touring sedan
1948 Dodge D24 Deluxe 4-door sedan

The new:
1994 Ford F150 XL (daily driver)
1983 Honda Nighthawk 650 (needs help)

The wish list:
1939 Chevrolet Master Deluxe 2-door (grandparents had one)
Hearse
Anything pre-1940's
Roadster
Rumble Seat

Retired: 
1988 Ford Thunderbird
1994 Geo Storm
1994 Toyota 4Runner
1994 Honda Civic DX

Sold:
1988 Ford E-350XL Ambulance
1951 Studebaker Champion 2-door sedan

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[plymouthcranbrook]

" Then erase all that junk in your signature line as nobody cares to read it every time you make a posting."  Showing how sharp I am, I never even noticed the Sig length. 

[Plymouthy Adams]

_{for those that think a long long signature and even tagging a photo of their hunk of iron is cool for every posting...trust me many forums that are just this format, click on manage ignore preferences and block them completely or any of four ways...for the long signature..just block them there, or chats, or message or post..this puts you in control even if you think they are out of control...}

[pyrodork]

Everything in my life post-military regarding short-term memory is shot. I'm not always as sharp as I used to be. Thanks Uncle Sam! I would have thought this forum would be less critical of those humbling themselves by asking questions trying to learn something.

-end drama club- No hard feelings. I appreciate learning anything I can! I'm a self-proclaimed "I-don't-know-it-all."

Which plugs should I install? I pulled Champion J11's out and replaced them with J11C's yesterday. Like I said, the car was running prior to rinsing the engine bay. Nothing adjusted.

I'm sure many people could benefit from a chart of original products versus their modern equivalents!

And my immensely offensive signature is now gone.

Edited April 16, 2016 by pyrodork

[Don Coatney]

Thanks for your military service. I spent 6 hours in the vets hospital yesterday and I think I felt better when I went in than I did when I returned home.

 

I and many others have had bad luck with Champion plugs. I have had good luck with ACDelco R45 plugs.

 

[pyrodork]

Thanks, Don. I tend to steer clear from the VA whenever possible. Maybe that's why I went to medical school! Haha! Thank you for your sacrifice, as well.

She runs! I studied the starting instructions in the manual and read some stuff online about the auto choke last night. Slow and steady wins the race! Messed with it a little bit this morning and then noticed the belt had well over an inch of play and was pretty cracked up. Replaced it with a lightly used one I already had and brought the generator to hand-tension. Took a little bit, but she went! Let it idle for several minutes before taking it out for a quick run around the neighborhood. Engine died when I turned around in a parking lot, but started right up again.

Differences noticed this time from last week when I bought it:

- amp gauge at 35, first time was about 15-20 (new battery has 200 more CCA)

- oil pressure almost in the red at idle, not while driving (but low enough to concern me), first time it topped out at about 40, but had low oil and no dipstick. Oil needs to be changed and new pan gasket, that I know of. Hence why I started washing the bay in the first place. I put in a dipstick from a blown 218 and it currently reads full.

- temp gauge around 200 when I came back from the 1-mile jaunt, first time was between 160 and 180. I had replaced the heater hoses and added coolant to account for what was dumped. Coolant is dirty. Freeze plug by oil dipstick has small, but noticeable dribble.

- fuel pump spritzing gas out the top. Didn't pay attention the first time, but that's likely the reason I saw the pump wet before. Reading, I learned there is a vent in the pump... but I don't think it should be shooting gas out and dripping. This changes my original concern for the pump gasket. Is a new pump in order?

Additionally, where does the heater temp cable connect? SAE 90 in the transmission (I heard to use SAE 10, but maybe that was for the fluid drive component)? Brakes are extremely slow response. I imagine there's air and dirty fluid in there. Looks like I may have a leaky cylinder in the rear.

And I got the radio working! Woo! Still need the hand brake cable freed up. I have chocks in the meanwhile. Looking for a drivers door window (4-door). eBay screwed me out of snipe-bidding on one.

Thanks, guys!

[Don Coatney]

Oil pressure, 40 at speed and 10 at idle is good. With all the starter cranking you have done the new battery is most likely low so 35 amps may be just bringing it up to snuff. But it should back off to just a slight charge with no extra load such as lights and radio once the battery has fully recovered. The radiator coolant will seek its operation level. In other words it may puke out any excess if the radiator is over filled. If it pukes do not add any coolant but keep an eye on it. Sounds like your fuel pump is in need of a rebuild kit or replacement. Make sure what ever way you go the the new rubber is compatible with the ethanol fuel sold today.   

[pyrodork]

Forgot to add that the oil pressure gauge was shaky sometimes. Isn't there a spring on the side of the block that determines pressure? Maybe that needs clearing?

Considering getting a new thermostat because of the dirty coolant and the fact that I'd rather see the gauge closer to 180. I understand the problems with de-rusting a cooling system, but if I were to just flush it with the hose, would that be safe? What about those water wetter products? I hear that people love em or hate em.

I wasn't happy with the fitment of the radiator cap, so I switched it with one from a 51 Dodge truck radiator after my test drive. Both radiators seem to like the fitment of their new caps better than the old ones.

Apart from a proper rebuild, do those "mechanic in a can" engine restorers work well for these motors in the meanwhile?

Going for a new fuel pump. They're cheap!

Oh... Is there an ideal radial tire size? I need new tires anyway. Was thinking about some 195s. Smaller=better handling?

Thanks again! I went from being pissy to pleased in a matter of minutes today thanks to all of your help!

[rb1949]

Good job. There is always a task that requires our persistence. For tires, I saw the 205/75-15 as a replacement for the 6.70-15 bias, using stock rims. Narrow white, or black. Can buy local, with mounting & balancing, way cheaper than tires only on line.Let us know your choice.Good luck cruisin'.

[Plymouthy Adams]

snake oil eh....you get what you pay for...do you have and or read the repair manual for this vehicle yet.   The technical section and the reference sections of this forum is loaded with how-to and alternate parts and the search feature itself will answer many of your question is quick fashion and allow you to scribble down those items deemed important to you either in your notes section of the book or log book on your vehicle.

[pyrodork]

I'm used to search functions being half assed on forums... Google usually works better. But it's nice to know that the information exists!

I just got the repair manual, owners manual, and a Thompson repair and tune up manual. Of course I also have the 37 Plymouth manual and the 36-42 Plymouth manual, but that's a whole other story...

[Plymouthy Adams]

_{I'm used to search functions being half assed on forums... Google usually works better. But it's nice to know that the information exists!}

I just got the repair manual, owners manual, and a Thompson repair and tune up manual. Of course I also have the 37 Plymouth manual and the 36-42 Plymouth manual, but that's a whole other story...

 

 

glad you now have the books..no substitute for these.   As for the forum search, on the average this forum is a lot superior to that of some forums to the extent this forum is full of truths and been there done that experiences that weed out many of the heard that, suspect this or supposed to work like statements..give it a chance...do ensure you are at top of furum or it will search only the thread you are open to...second, your search should be more than a three letter word and should not be so long as to clutter the return

[rb1949]

Forum Searches do take lots of time, to read the many topics/replies. But doing so, I have picked out many valuable tidbits of info from the been there - done that folks. Things not found elsewhere.