New here, 1951 Cranbrook

[Ken_B]

    I just stumbled across this forum doing some research about my new to me 1951 Plymouth Cranbrook.  About me, I used to work in autobody/restorations, now I'm a Shipfitter. My long time dream car that I finally found is a 1951 Plymouth Cranbrook sedan, the same kind of car as my Grandfather's first car but with 2 extra doors. He had a couple 4 doors that I rode around in as a kid with him, they really made a big impression on me.

 

    My plans for the car for now are to clean the car up, it's about a 20 year old resto that's seen some daily driver duty. Do the necessary repairs it needs to keep it reliable. And then start to personalize it, a little bit of paint work, etc... The previous owner was unsure of the engine size, or any history of the car for that matter. He thought it might be a Canadian car, but I'm not completely sure, I'm gonna need some help from you guys on that one figuring out what to look for to say weather or not it actually is. If it is in fact a Canadian it should have a 218 ci Flathead 6 rather than the US market 217 ci, correct? The head does measure out at 25" so I'm leaning towards 218 ci, but wasn't there a couple different displacement sizes of 23" and 25" Flatheads? And couldn't somebody have just dropped a different engine in the car at some point? anyway thanks for the help! I'm glad to have stumbled across this site!

The two pictures are; My Cranbrook the day I got it next to my old Valiant I traded for it. And a picture of my Grandfather with his Cranbrook around 1961 or so.

 

 

[casper50]

welcome Ken.  Someone will be along shortly to answer your question.  I think a dodge with an original 25" block would have been made in Canada.

[dpollo]

If it is a Canadian car, the serial number will begin with a 9. This number is found on the left front door pillar just above the hinge.  There will be an aluminum tag on the firewall with the body number paint and trim codes.  Also it will have the 25 inch 218.

 

It will also use Spicer cross and roller U-jointe same as Chev later used in the 55-6-7 models and there are a number of other differences.

 

The picture you posted shows a pretty nice car.   They are really nice cars to drive, I have had several, the present one being a convertible.

[Ken_B]

If it is a Canadian car, the serial number will begin with a 9. This number is found on the left front door pillar just above the hinge.  There will be an aluminum tag on the firewall with the body number paint and trim codes.  Also it will have the 25 inch 218.

 

It will also use Spicer cross and roller U-jointe same as Chev later used in the 55-6-7 models and there are a number of other differences.

 

The picture you posted shows a pretty nice car.   They are really nice cars to drive, I have had several, the present one being a convertible.

 

Thanks dpollo, looks like it is in fact a Canadian car by the info, body number does start with a 9.

I guess my next things I need to figure out are how to be sure it is a 218 ci and not a larger displacement variant of the 25"(previous owner claimed it had been re-ringed and had new bearings in the last few years, said it was a nightmare getting the correct piston rings for it.). And what parts numbers and availability of the Spicer u joints as they are on my to do list.

 

Thanks, I am very happy with it! I would have to agree they are very nice driving cars!

[deathbound]

I believe the engine# should be stamped on the outside of the drivers side frame rail.....somewhere around the rear axle, maybe just behind. It may take some CSI to find it & the locations vary slightly, but if the #'s match, it's the original engine. Welcome & nice looking car. Dig the picture of your Grandfather, looks like it was a mild kustom.

[dpollo]

 Rings would have been easy to get if American parts books recognized the engine. Hastings # 804

If it is the original block it will carry the engine # beginning P23 ............. .   this number will be also stamped exactly 13 inches behind the rear axle on the left frame rail.

The original bore size was 3 3/8,  stroke 4 1/16 . Nowadays a popular rebore for this engine is + .o6o  which is 3 7/16,  the standard Chrysler 251 bore size. Your engine uses the same gaskets, bearings and seals as the Chrysler and Desoto.

 

as for the universals, they are the same as a 55 Chev........Numbers , depending on the brand , Neapco 1-0153 comes to mind. Easy to get provided you do not ask for joints for a 51 Plymouth.   Better check underneath since they went back to using Detroit joints for  '52.  The cross type were 46 to 51.

 

I highly recommend the Plymouth Owners Club   and also Neil Riddle in Seattle area is a good source for parts.  Bremerton is not very far from where I live and lots of Canucks worked in the shipyards there so maybe that is how your car got down there. Good swap meet in Bremerton, too.

Edited March 4, 2016 by dpollo

[rb1949]

Nice ride. I noticed the classic, with the narrow WW tires. Are they Radial, on stock rims?

Edited March 4, 2016 by rb1949

[JerseyHarold]

Welcome to the forum.  Beautiful Cranbrook.   P23's are my favorite cars.  

 

Having a Canadian car will keep you on your toes when it comes to finding parts due to the differences from US cars, as I'm sure you've discovered by now.

[dpollo]

Here are somethings you may not know.  Canadian cars  use a different frame so the steering box mounts further forward

to clear the longer engine. The steering column and shaft are longer.  The front springs are heavier and the king pins have roller bearings at the top.  The radiator is different with the upper hose entering on an angle.  Horns are different since there is less room in the space behind the grille.  The brake drums have a different profile making it impossible to mount the wire wheel optional for 52 and later on the rear.  These drums will interchange with US models.  The air filter is wider and lower and there is no filter in the road draft tube.

Canadian Cranbrooks in 51 and 52 use the rocker moulding and gravel shields used on the 50s.  The original colours were subtly different from US models  and the inner surface of the trunk was painted body colour in Canada. 

Generally speaking, cars sold in the USA had higher levels of trim and options although everything was available, just more expensive in Canada.   My Cranbrook Convertible sold new in Victoria BC for $3485 with no heater or turn signals.  That is almost $1000 more than a similar car delivered in the USA .    FOB Detroit was $2222.  I do not know what FOB Windsor was.

[Ken_B]

rb1949

Yes the tire are radials mounted on stock wheels with tubes inside. That is the one thing the previous owner did have some knowledge about the car. He told me had them mounted at a Les Schwab and they removed the small metal tab from inside the tire and patched it allowing tubes to be used safely.

 

Thank you for all the great information dpollo!! This will definitely be very helpful in the future! I had no idea there were so many differences between the US market and Canadian market cars. I will definitely be checking out The Plymouth Owners Club. How would I go about contacting Neil Riddle if I needed something, is he a member here?

 

If anyone would like to see more of the car, I plan on giving it a good wash and wax this weekend if the weather lets me. I will try to get some more pictures up here to show it off.

[deathbound]

rb1949

Yes the tire are radials mounted on stock wheels with tubes inside. That is the one thing the previous owner did have some knowledge about the car. He told me had them mounted at a Les Schwab and they removed the small metal tab from inside the tire and patched it allowing tubes to be used safely.

 

Thank you for all the great information dpollo!! This will definitely be very helpful in the future! I had no idea there were so many differences between the US market and Canadian market cars. I will definitely be checking out The Plymouth Owners Club. How would I go about contacting Neil Riddle if I needed something, is he a member here?

 

If anyone would like to see more of the car, I plan on giving it a good wash and wax this weekend if the weather lets me. I will try to get some more pictures up here to show it off.

 

I think this is his ebay store, hopefully someone will confirm:

http://stores.ebay.com/The-Old-Plym-Cafe?_trksid=p2047675.l2563

[1950 Special Deluxe]

My car is also Canadian.

It is a Dodge Special Deluxe, very similar to the US Plymouth version but with the 25" block.

I have an original manual and parts catalogue.

They are very handy in locating parts.

[dpollo]

By all means let's see some more pictures.

Edited March 5, 2016 by dpollo

[dpollo]

Neil Riddle advertises in the Plymouth Bulletin 

I don't know if he is on this site but there are other Washington  residents with 51-2 Plymouths on here.

I have added another difference to the above list.  All these variations did not make the cars better, just different

but it was nice as teenagers to be able to drop a Chrysler 251 right in without any modifications. I rode in one with

a 265 Chrysler six and was very impressed. I later built one and put it in a 50 for a friend.  He tore up 2 clutches and

a transmission but we are still friends.  The nicest running of all the flathead sixes, in my opinion is the 3 3/8 bore x 4 1/16

stroke  218 when it is bored .060 ( 3 7/16 )  They run really smooth and can be revved up higher than the longer stroke models.

Edited March 5, 2016 by dpollo

[Ken_B]

Thanks for the info on Neil Riddle and finding some parts! The number stamped on the side of the block does start with P23, so it looks like we have a 218. I will have to clean off the drivers rear frame rail and see if the number is a match. I found a box of gaskets and rings going through a box of spares that was included in the trunk. I'm going to have to do some digging and see what I can find with those old parts numbers. At this point I am hoping it has been bored to 251, that's a pretty good jump in displacement. Looks like the weather is going to cooperate today for me to clean it up and get some pictures too!

[dpollo]

Boring a 218  +.060  does not make it a 251  far from it.   Sorry if that was what I implied.  You are only using 251 pistons when

you bore .060 and beyond.

 The stroke of a 218  is 4 1/16.   a 251 is 4 1/2 , so the increase in displacement is largely due to the longer stroke.

 

In my 51 Plymouth I have bored it to just under 3 1/2  which is 3 7/16 + .060  and it uses the 251 crank and rods so the displacement is now 260 cubic inches.  With 8.5 to 1 compression it is a very good performer and at 50 000 miles of use, it still runs like a champ !  Should I ever replace this engine I will go to 3 7/16 but use the original 218 crank and rods because I like the way these engines can be  "wound up ".  Chances are though, I will not ever need to change it out.  It also has Overdrive, a VERY pleasing option

for highway travel.  One should never believe what someone  says about his sex life or his gas mileage, but I can get over 25 mpg on a highway run.   As for the other, no comment.

[Ken_B]

The weather was great today, I was able to get the car out and all washed and waxed up. She cleans up well! I definitely still need to do a good cleaning on the interior but every time I look at this car I am more and more happy with it! Anyways as promised here are some pictures.

 

 

[Niel Hoback]

"Oh, the fun you're going to have."

Dr.Seuss.

That's a fine looking car you've got there. Take care of it and it will take care of you.

[dpollo]

 If I am not mistaken, the colour is called Opal Gray  # 4154 on the body tag if the car is early production

or 4204  if later.  Dulux code DU 4    It is an easy colour to match having  a mix of about 2/3 white, 1/3 black and a little orange.

 

  Thanks for posting the pictures.  That is something I have not yet learned to do.

[_shel_ny]

There is more than one way, but the easiest way that I find to post pictures that are in my computer is to scroll down a bit.

 

On the right you will see "more reply options". Clicking that will open a window where on the left you will find "Attach Files"

 

That will let you browse, and attach your stored pictures.

 

I usually resize mine before loading to save my allotted site space. I try for less than 150kb

If a pic I want to keep, I copy then resize before posting.

 

Also, if the pics are too large they overfill the screen making it difficult to view.

 

 

Edit: I also try to reduce the size of the pics to allow for attaching more in one post. As well as having a limit on the total kb per individual on the site, there is a limit size per posting.  If you exceed your site limit you will have to go into "manage attachments" and delete some before adding more.

Edited March 6, 2016 by shel_ny

[dpollo]

Thank you, I did try to post a picture of my 51 convert but will have to go to manage attachments and reduce the kbs.

 I have never accepted overhead valves let alone electronic marvels. I use the excuse that I was born in the first half of the last century,  Pretty lame, but it works for me.

[Ken_B]

Ill have to do some looking into that color info, I know the car was repainted at some point, but I plan on redoing it better. I sure do love driving this thing!

[ptwothree]

Thank you, I did try to post a picture of my 51 convert but will have to go to manage attachments and reduce the kbs.

 I have never accepted overhead valves let alone electronic marvels. I use the excuse that I was born in the first half of the last century,  Pretty lame, but it works for me.

Download "Shrinkpic":   It will automatically size the pic to the requirements of the web site you want to post to.

[rb1949]

They allow 195MB of photo 'storage' per user. At 500x600 size, that's about 2,000 photos to 'attach'. Every computer has the program PAINT. In 2 clicks I resize original images down to 35% of original size for here. (Save it with a different name) Do the same before uploading to on-line storage. I found "Picture Trail" to be quite easy. If using the 'link' to insert a photo from a site, it can be bigger, and you're not using forum storage, so add as many as you like. (After uploading, I immediately copy the needed link to the image, then save it in a notepad file for future use.)

[dpollo]

Many thanks for the advice.   So far I managed only to get a thumbnail onto the site, but deleted it.