Opened up a can of worms - front end

[52Suburban]

Bought some Coker wide whites - love the look! Asked tire shop to align - couldn't do it car was too old for their computer.

Got a referral to a shop from a builder/fabricator friend. They would not take my money but gave me an estimate to do new kingpins, upper & lower control arms and then align for $1100 w/o parts.

 

Question: I priced things out at Bernbaum at around 600 plus shipping thats with springs. Read a few threads here on the forum and saw Kantor mentioned and priced out about the same parts king pins control arm shafts, bushings, pins and springs for around 680 plus shipping. Any reason why I should pay the extra $80???

 

Talked with the shop about doing disk brakes while they are there..... they quoted me another hour at $135 if the kit I give them is basically plug & play. So now the next big question is which conversion kit? I have been leaning toward scarebird because I have 15" rims and they will supposedly work with them (however one post said some grinding of the calipers was necessary??) and they are supposed to fit with no drilling .... extra fuss. 

 

Since Im doing this and doing it right - what about master cylinders? proportioning valves? Anything else Ive missed - Oh yeah money is an object/issue after a point.......

 

So which part source?  Which disk brake kit and......what else. Did think about doing this myself but I also have a model A project going and this is supposed to be my driver while Im doing that..........

Edited July 14, 2015 by 52Suburban

[suntennis]

Sounds like you must have been wearing some gold chains about you to get such high bids. Maybe $135 an hour in California is normal but dealers in Arizona are around $90 per hour. Would suggest getting some more bids and opinions on what you really need for the front end. You may not need both upper and lower control arm shafts replaced.  If you do any mechanical work you could do some of the repairs.

[RobertKB]

What is the condition of the front end? Don't waste time and money on replacing parts that do not need it. I just did the front end on the '51 Dodge business coupe I am working on. Most parts were in pretty decent shape and and I re-used about half of the parts. I did replace king pins but only because everything was apart but the old ones were OK really. I had some NORS Chinese stuff and all of it was a bad fit and there was actually less play in the old parts so I re-used them. If you can, make sure any replacement parts are US or Canadian made NOS or NORS. Lots of old Mopar, MOOG and THOMPSON parts are available from other suppliers other than the big ones already mentioned. I can recommend someone as long as you have the parts numbers you need. He has been great getting parts for me at very reasonable prices. My guess is Bernbaum and Kantner have Chinese suppliers and the parts may or may not be good quality.

 

PS - you need to find an alignment shop with an old time mechanic who knows how to do an alignment on these old cars. A shop manual is a good thing to take with you as well when you get the work done.

[52Suburban]

The front end was OK but has gotten worse with the new tires - I do not understand this they are the same size and type - radials as before, but now I have a bad wobble at 60 or so....

May have the balance re-checked ???

I agree the price is high - supposedly this *IS* the old school shop with the guy who has been around for ever ( I actually worked in this town 20 years ago and brought my car there to get aligned) the person who referred me I trust implicitly! The owner of the shop said that I could get away with not doing this - but I have the $$ now and the wobble was not nice....

[Dodgeb4ya]

You might have a new tire problem.... not a suspension problem if the problem came up after new "Coker" tires!

[JD luxury liner]

if the tires are the same size try the front on the back & visa versa , just for a test .

Agree it could simply be a bad new tire.Sorry for your luck but dont jump too fast!!

[Andydodge]

I would also get the tyres re balanced/checked as when I put the Coker Classic Radials on the 41 Plymouth I also had the front end aligned, it was fine.......also if you have to replace front end parts then generally its the tierod ends first, then followed by the kingpins then outer upper/lower bushes and pins followed by the upper inner and finally lower inner.........the upper and lower arms themselves generally do NOT wear as such unless the actual bushes have worked loose, the bushes are torqued/tightened onto the A arms and "suspension movement" is the specific pins moving inside their specific bushes.....unless the bushes have come loose on the arms then they "should" NOT need replacing......also check ebay as ALL the moving parts you need, kingpins, upper/lower inner/outer bushes & pins apart from tierod ends should be the same 1942-1956..........tierod ends maybe slightly different every few yrs.........me, I'd be getting all the parts myself.........as for the wheel alignment it shouldn't make any difference whether you have cross ply or radial tyres.......the specs are in your workshop manual........you do have one don't you?........lol.....all the front end parts can be redone before worrying about a disc brake kit............I'd get the front end done 1st.....the Dodge has had radials on it since 1973, with no worries about wheel alignments over that period of time.......do you need the alignment specs?.......the only real hiccup regarding doing an alignment is the upper outer camber bush adjustment, a large open mouth spanner is needed to adjust the camber bush, I ended up making a "spanner" out of 1/4 plate for my mate who did the wheel alignment at his work..........Andy Douglas

Edited July 14, 2015 by Andydodge

[William Davey]

Andydodge offers good advice about finding your own parts and the sources for them. I do disagree about getting the alignment before you convert to disc brakes. I'm only familiar with the rustyhope kit, but that kit relocates the steering arms and will require a front end alignment after you're done. So why pay for the alignment twice?

[Bmartin]

May want to get the tires checked with a roadforce balance.  This will measure the roundness of the tire as well as provide a better balance.  If they are out of round significantly and you have the printout, you may be able to warranty the tire. 

[JerseyHarold]

One of the tires may have a shifted belt that's causing your high-speed wobble.   Move them to different locations on the car and see if there is any effect.

[Andydodge]

William, fair comment about getting the W/A done twice, however, I'd check around re the disc adaptors as there appears to be a few different kits offered in the US...me?.... I adapted mine myself using Oz Leyland P76 discs and calipers.........they were Oz only 1973-75, however are 11" diameter, ford/mopar bolt pattern and were readily available here and are still available as they are a well used Oz hot rodding staple........anyway......I'd redo the front end in the order I mentioned first........andyd

Edited July 15, 2015 by Andydodge

[BobT-47P15]

Just curious ---- did you get the older style wider tread radial............or that new "skinny" radial that looks like a bias ply tire?

 

A few years ago, I ran some used radials on my 47 Plymouth..........they were the old wide style..........they were very smooth, did not

wobble, and masked the shortcomings of the somewhat worn front end.     So, you might have a faulty tire.......I would certainly

suggest some further checking.     Are you sure your rims are true also?

[52Suburban]

Just curious ---- did you get the older style wider tread radial............or that new "skinny" radial that looks like a bias ply tire?

 

A few years ago, I ran some used radials on my 47 Plymouth..........they were the old wide style..........they were very smooth, did not

wobble, and masked the shortcomings of the somewhat worn front end.     So, you might have a faulty tire.......I would certainly

suggest some further checking.     Are you sure your rims are true also?

The Cokers ares the same size as the tires were on when I bought the car 235/75-15. I was not getting this wobble before the new tires - I'll go back to Les Schwab tomorrow - a payed a few bucks more for free balancing and rotation....

[fstfish66]

dont be  surprised if  its the  COKERS,,,  I had 3 bias plys  delam  on me,,,which created a internal  bubble,,,a friend had same  problem,,,,with one  wide white,,mine  were not  wide whites,, hopefully its just a bad  balance,,,diamond back  makes  wide whites as well,,have  no  experience with  those,,,

[52Suburban]

Still working this out - they re-balanced all four tires and its better, but not right. Rotate front to back this week.

[1941Rick]

The scarebird installation requires a small nub ground off the GM caliper....no biggie.

the only extra I did was drill and tap the Ford disc so it could be held to the old hub. That way it would not hang loose when the wheel is off.

[1941Rick]

The scarebird installation requires a small nub ground off the GM caliper....no biggie.

the only extra I did was drill and tap the Ford disc so it could be held to the old hub. That way it would not hang loose when the wheel is off.

[52Suburban]

Well I finally talked to the head person in the shop and it turns out one of my rims is slightly bent. Why they put that rim on the front of the car is beyond me!

With correct balance and two good rims on the front I am back to where I was before. Now a second opinion/price on front end work....