eci master work with rusty hope front disc and rear drum

[casper50]

no hoses.  But I bought it used so I'm not sure if it does from AAJ or not.

[mopar_earl]

no hoses. But I bought it used so I'm not sure if it does from AAJ or not.

OK thanks!

Earl

[james curl]

I have friends who build cars for customers who will tell you never expect any thing to just bolt on without any problem.  You must remember the parts are made one at a time and the tolerances are only as good as the operator of the equipment was that day.  The ECI unit uses a bent up main body with a tube welded on to hold the pedals.  The man running the brake is allowed a tolerance for every bend, usually .030 + or - so it is hard to get the exact part every time.  The tube is welded on in a jig, depending on the welder being right handed or left handed the part will pull some when removed from the jig.  The car this is going on is 60 to 70 years old and the frame has settled some making it difficult enough to install new parts that were designed 60 years later for a car other than yours.  If you are looking for a kit that just bolts on complete with all required components there and sized to give you the equivalent of new factory engineered brakes all I can tell you is good luck.  We would all like to be able to just bolt the parts on without any problems on our 60 to 70 year old car also.

[martybose]

If you read the thread you saw that both Don and I thought that there were improvements that could be made to the ECI brake master kit.  That said, there are probably dozens of people who have used them as is with no problems; you will have to draw your own conclusions about whether any of the changes we made were truly necessary.

 

Marty

[mopar_earl]

Just for the record everyone, I do not, I repeat do not expect everything aftermarket to bolt right up. Lol that's not what my post is about. My post is about if it needs mods or not. I read conflicting posts where some say you need mods while others say no. That's all. I can do minor mods. I don't have a torch and welder so I'm not able to do any major modifications. I also work 45 to 80 hours a week and have a family so I don't have a lot of time to spend modifying expensive parts when I can shop for similar parts that don't need modified or minor modifications.

Thanks,

Earl

[mopar_earl]

If you read the thread you saw that both Don and I thought that there were improvements that could be made to the ECI brake master kit. That said, there are probably dozens of people who have used them as is with no problems; you will have to draw your own conclusions about whether any of the changes we made were truly necessary.

Marty

Thanks, that's the kind of info I'm in need off! The posts made it sound the mods where extensive and required. That's why I had concerns of why others said it didn't need but a hole drilled. I like to approach things with as much knowledge as I can get. Not one to jump in blindly. Lol

Earl

[james curl]

They sent Don a Mustang master cylinder because that is all that would work with his set up.  He used PluDo caliper brackets which seem to be identical to Rusty Hopes brackets.  I do not know what calipers Don used and he has the large rear brakes from a big MoPar.  They sent me a master cylinder for the Chevy pick up calipers I used and my Dakota little rear brakes.which is not a Mustang master cylinder.  You have to tell them what parts that you intend to use so that they can size the master cylinder bore to the stroke available to make the brakes work.  Rusty Hope lists the calipers that will work with his brackets, depending in the piston size in the caliper that you choose and the rear wheel cylinders.on the brakes then they can size a master cylinder that has adequate volume for the stroke available.

[Don Coatney]

They sent Don a Mustang master cylinder because that is all that would work with his set up.  He used PluDo caliper brackets which seem to be identical to Rusty Hopes brackets.  I do not know what calipers Don used and he has the large rear brakes from a big MoPar.  They sent me a master cylinder for the Chevy pick up calipers I used and my Dakota little rear brakes.which is not a Mustang master cylinder.  You have to tell them what parts that you intend to use so that they can size the master cylinder bore to the stroke available to make the brakes work.  Rusty Hope lists the calipers that will work with his brackets, depending in the piston size in the caliper that you choose and the rear wheel cylinders.on the brakes then they can size a master cylinder that has adequate volume for the stroke available.

James, that information is all correct, true, and detailed in the thread I linked earlier but the information is 5 years old, obsolete, and of no value to the original poster.

[mopar_earl]

James, that information is all correct, true, and detailed in the thread I linked earlier but the information is 5 years old, obsolete, and of no value to the original poster.

I don't recall you saying anywhere that the mods you were doing were optional. Especially with the pedals being 1/2" off. You never even remotely said all your mods were optional that I saw anywhere. Again, I like latest info available. I'm sorry your feelings got hurt. The other guy gave me info instead of search and go to this link. Maybe you might want to update the 5 year old post. If not, please don't get upset cause someone would like more current info.

Thanks,

Earl

[mopar_earl]

They sent Don a Mustang master cylinder because that is all that would work with his set up. He used PluDo caliper brackets which seem to be identical to Rusty Hopes brackets. I do not know what calipers Don used and he has the large rear brakes from a big MoPar. They sent me a master cylinder for the Chevy pick up calipers I used and my Dakota little rear brakes.which is not a Mustang master cylinder. You have to tell them what parts that you intend to use so that they can size the master cylinder bore to the stroke available to make the brakes work. Rusty Hope lists the calipers that will work with his brackets, depending in the piston size in the caliper that you choose and the rear wheel cylinders.on the brakes then they can size a master cylinder that has adequate volume for the stroke available.

Thanks for the info. I was able to find all that from the posts I read and searched plus it makes sense as you can't just throw any hydraulic items together and expect them to work correctly. I do know eci has several different masters to choose from. I'm all good on that stuff. Just if and how much mods were needing done to the eci unit.

Thanks,

Earl

[mopar_earl]

James, that information is all correct, true, and detailed in the thread I linked earlier but the information is 5 years old, obsolete, and of no value to the original poster.

I never said your post was obsolete and of no value. Those are words you put in my mouth. Is it 5 years old, yes. Do I prefer more up todate info, yes. Did I mean to hurt your eelings, no. I did appreciate you trying to help as I mention before. I didn't even know you wrote the post originally. All I know is your post had all kinds of mods and was 5 years old. Other's said no mods/drill one hole. So I had no idea why this was. Know that I know you did all that to improve it over getting it to work/fit. That little bit of info is all it takes for put someone on the right track.

Earl

[unknown]

I called ECI and talked to one of their guys. He said recommended leaving the stock drum brakes on the back. He said it will give you a nice stopping ride and that their master cylinder should work with that setup. I'm still new to all this so feel free to call them yourself to double check but, that is what I found out.

[mopar_earl]

James, that information is all correct, true, and detailed in the thread I linked earlier but the information is 5 years old, obsolete, and of no value to the original poster.

Don,

The way I see it we have the following options.

1. We continue our hate hate relationship where I hate you and you hate me more.

2. We make up and be best old buddy old pals and shake hands at Carlisle All Chrysler Nationals (if you go) this year or any future years as I never miss the show.

3. We avoid each other. Meaning I won't post or reply to your posts and you won't post or reply on mine including this one.

I'm willing to accept any of the 3, your choice man. Remember, life is short man. Time is limited.

Thanks,

Earl

[mopar_earl]

I called ECI and talked to one of their guys. He said recommended leaving the stock drum brakes on the back. He said it will give you a nice stopping ride and that their master cylinder should work with that setup. I'm still new to all this so feel free to call them yourself to double check but, that is what I found out.

Thanks for the info. Happen to get an email from them? The hours I work and being forbidden to make or receive personal calls I can only email or use forums while at work and that's only due to having this trusty smartphone. Lol I'd never get anything done with the hours I work without my phone. Couldn't tell you the last time I was on my laptop or desktop.

Earl

[Don Coatney]

I don't recall you saying anywhere that the mods you were doing were optional. Especially with the pedals being 1/2" off. You never even remotely said all your mods were optional that I saw anywhere. Again, I like latest info available. I'm sorry your feelings got hurt. The other guy gave me info instead of search and go to this link. Maybe you might want to update the 5 year old post. If not, please don't get upset cause someone would like more current info.

Thanks,

Earl

In my opinion the modifications I made were not optional. If I considered them as optional I would not have made them. Others may be happy with the pedal side to side free play and using the floor panel as a pedal stop but to me that is not acceptable. Sorry but I do not see the need to update my original posting as the information I posted 5 years ago is factual and as up to date as is possible.

 

I never said your post was obsolete and of no value. Those are words you put in my mouth. Is it 5 years old, yes. Do I prefer more up todate info, yes. Did I mean to hurt your eelings, no. I did appreciate you trying to help as I mention before. I didn't even know you wrote the post originally. All I know is your post had all kinds of mods and was 5 years old. Other's said no mods/drill one hole. So I had no idea why this was. Know that I know you did all that to improve it over getting it to work/fit. That little bit of info is all it takes for put someone on the right track.

Earl

Actually you did say my posting was too old to be of any value. I completed this instillation 5 years ago and the results work well. Who did you think wrote the original posting? I signed my name to the posting as I always do. I suggest you pay more attention to the details and not the date of when the posting was made. If you want to drill one hole and be happy then do so. If you want to do it right and pay attention to details then read my 5 year old posting and pay attention to what I said. The information I posted 5 years ago is still factual including the lack of support I got from the vendor.

[Don Coatney]

Don,

The way I see it we have the following options.

1. We continue our hate hate relationship where I hate you and you hate me more.

2. We make up and be best old buddy old pals and shake hands at Carlisle All Chrysler Nationals (if you go) this year or any future years as I never miss the show.

3. We avoid each other. Meaning I won't post or reply to your posts and you won't post or reply on mine including this one.

I'm willing to accept any of the 3, your choice man. Remember, life is short man. Time is limited.

Thanks,

Earl

I can happily agree to disagree so the choice is yours. Where are you located? I will not be at Carlisle.

[james curl]

If you do not want to use your toe board as a back stop for your pedals you will have to add stops to the square tube that mounts the pedal trunnion unless the manufacturer has made this change when you get yours.  Don's and mine do and did not have any stops to stop the return movement of the pedals.  The original master cylinder has these stops built into its design and the pedals have a bolt that adjusts the stopped position of the pedal.  Since both pedals are spring loaded to return to the neutral position I think it would be irritating to have them bang the toe boards when you removed your foot.  Several years ago I designed a bracket and installed a dual master cylinder on my P-15.  I was never able to get enough fluid movement with one pump to stop the car fast with a hard pedal.  By double pumping I was able to move enough fluid to achieve a hard brake pedal and stop the car.  The stock brake pedal ratio did not provide enough travel on the master cylinder to achieve a hard pedal.,  ECI;s solution was to change the pedal ratio and lengthen the output arm for more travel at the master cylinder this in turn takes more force on the pedal.    i have used Rusty Hopes brackets, Chevy pick up calipers and MoPar disc on the front and both the original rear end and the Dakota rear end and have adequate brakes to stop the car in an emergency using the original master cylinder.

[Plymouthy Adams]

this post is not to antagonize but to point out a few facts..as of now I really do not see the point of this entire thread now that all the information has come to the forefront....you have not even placed phone calls to the company...you come here pinging the forum for info and get the one man who has successfully done the install with the components you question...you comment the facts are out of date...but yet, you have no facts to prove they are out of date....Don commented on what needs be done and honestly portrayed the tech support he received from the supplier....I am not sure of what you looking for but it seems obvious you do not recognize it when found..

 

I do not do Carlisle either but you find yourself at a southern swap meet..regardless of our ability to agree...I will still buy you a cup of coffee...maybe a donut...life is short...consider those that have gone before is all I am saying...

 

I

Edited June 8, 2015 by Plymouthy Adams

[mopar_earl]

I can happily agree to disagree so the choice is yours. Where are you located? I will not be at Carlisle.

Chambersburg area of Pennsylvania. Not far from Carlisle or Gettysburg.

[mopar_earl]

this post is not to antagonize but to point out a few facts..as of now I really do not see the point of this entire thread now that all the information has come to the forefront....you have not even placed phone calls to the company...you come here pinging the forum for info and get the one man who has successfully done the install with the components you question...you comment the facts are out of date...but yet, you have no facts to prove they are out of date....Don commented on what needs be done and honestly portrayed the tech support he received from the supplier....I am not sure of what you looking for but it seems obvious you do not recognize it when found..

I do not do Carlisle either but you find yourself at a southern swap meet..regardless of our ability to agree...I will still buy you a cup of coffee...maybe a donut...life is short...consider those that have gone before is all I am saying...

I

Yes I haven't called eci. Unless they have a 24 hour tech line, I won't be able to call them anytime soon. As I mention before. Be nice if they had an email.

Yes I came here for answers, that's these forums are for.

No idea if the 5 year old post is still current, that's why all the questions,and confusion.

I,have emailed aaj brakes and no reply yet. I have talked to rusty hope brakes via email. Scarebird as far as I know doesn't offer a master kit.

I'm here for info and lots of it! I've spent hours and hours on here reading and searching. Fortunately I can do this while at work on my phone.

I think this post is extremely important as it brings somethings to light. Also it's my post and I plan to keep it for others.

Oh I know what I'm looking for and can clearly see it when I find it. You may not know what I'm looking for but you can always ask. I found what I was looking for. Not in dons orginal post but on this post. Now it's just ppl putting words in my mouth for me and saying what I am and not looking for and all that stuff and junk. I can easily tell I'm new and not in the click.

So you don't know what I'm looking for but you know I wouldn't know it when I found it? That just doesn't make any sense. Lol like I said I know exactly what I'm looking for and I did find it and it was in this thread not don's orginal post. It wasn't easy to find the answers I was seeking, but the battle I have won.

Oh my yes life is short. Especially when you work long hours.

I don't get down south. I also hit the Hershey AACA fall meet annually the whole week.

I definitely consider those that have gone before me and those in real time. I also consider those that do the write ups like Don did on his master kit. Once I found out the mods were to improve it not make it function and/or install it. I too am anal on such matters and like to improve everything I work on. But with my limited time and limited fabrication tooling, I need something better if available or I would have to just settle on what the manufacturer sent me.

I hoping to hear back from ajj brakes to get info on their master. I may go with their whole system.

Earl

[mopar_earl]

If you do not want to use your toe board as a back stop for your pedals you will have to add stops to the square tube that mounts the pedal trunnion unless the manufacturer has made this change when you get yours. Don's and mine do and did not have any stops to stop the return movement of the pedals. The original master cylinder has these stops built into its design and the pedals have a bolt that adjusts the stopped position of the pedal. Since both pedals are spring loaded to return to the neutral position I think it would be irritating to have them bang the toe boards when you removed your foot. Several years ago I designed a bracket and installed a dual master cylinder on my P-15. I was never able to get enough fluid movement with one pump to stop the car fast with a hard pedal. By double pumping I was able to move enough fluid to achieve a hard brake pedal and stop the car. The stock brake pedal ratio did not provide enough travel on the master cylinder to achieve a hard pedal., ECI;s solution was to change the pedal ratio and lengthen the output arm for more travel at the master cylinder this in turn takes more force on the pedal. i have used Rusty Hopes brackets, Chevy pick up calipers and MoPar disc on the front and both the original rear end and the Dakota rear end and have adequate brakes to stop the car in an emergency using the original master cylinder.

I would agree. I wouldn't want to hear pedals slam on the floor. Unfortunately unless eci added the stops I wouldn't be able to add them. I would have to do without or pay someone to install them. I can't weld for crap so I don't have a welder. Lol

My personal preference is to get rid of the single circuit master for safety. I've had 3 separate lost of brakes due to leaks on this car. 2 were steel lines blowing and one a wheel cylinder blew. Fortunately it was all at low speeds and I used the parking brake.

Earl

Edited June 9, 2015 by mopar_earl

[Plymouthy Adams]

Glad you found the info you wanted....getting these companies to call you back can be a real challenge.  I see you use your phone for surfing at work but cannot call out?  Figure most folks still got lunch or breaks.   I find it more than frustrating also to see companies hawk this ware or that ware and then come to find out they have incomplete kits..no tech support and blow you away like a bit of lint when you should ever have to call for a 'what the heck'  explanation from them...good luck.  I told Pittsburg police once many years ago that if he was to show me how to get out of twon...I would not come back that was 1975..I have kept my word...if I see PA ever again it will be in a flyover...

Edited June 9, 2015 by Plymouthy Adams

[mopar_earl]

Glad you found the info you wanted....getting these companies to call you back can be a real challenge. I see you use your phone for surfing at work but cannot call out? Figure most folks still got lunch or breaks. I find it more than frustrating also to see companies hawk this ware or that ware and then come to find out they have incomplete kits..no tech support and blow you away like a bit of lint when you should ever have to call for a 'what the heck' explanation from them...good luck. I told Pittsburg police once many years ago that if he was to show me how to get out of twon...I would not come back that was 1975..I have kept my word...if I see PA ever again it will be in a flyover...

I'm a power plant supervisor. We are not allowed to use company phones or net for personal and they are monitored. I use my phone at work for net and such but I have such poor reception I can't hold calls. Data is snail slow as well. We have breaks but being a power plant they are working breaks. We don't leave the property. Than you add the 10 to 18 hour days. We work weekends and holidays. It could be weeks or months before I could be able to call eci. That's why I do most everything by email.

You didn't like Pittsburgh? You really would like Philadelphia!!! Lol I like pittsburgh. I'm sure in the 70's pittsburgh was a major crap hole like most cities at that time. Pennsylvania is a beautiful state with so much to see and do. 99% of my vacation time is spent in my own state.

Unfortunately I have yet to get a reply from aaj brakes. Looking like I may have to add them to the call when I'm on vacation list with eci.

I will say rusty hope replied within an hour on a sunday. Unfortunately he doesn't have a master cylinder kit. Though I do like his front disc kit. I most definitely want a dual circuit master and front disc. I need to research if rear disc are worth the extra cash.

Believe you and Don would both enjoy the Hershey AACA fall Meet. Last year was my first time and I liked it so much I contracted a campsite for every year. My friends from Ohio come for it and the Chrysler show at Carlisle.

Earl

[Merle Coggins]

Chambersburg area of Pennsylvania. Not far from Carlisle or Gettysburg.

How 'bout that... That's where I am this week. Just got into town yesterday (Monday). I have training at Volvo Tue-Thu at their training center at Letterkenny.

[jrhoads]

I am completing a Rusty Hope bracket kit with a AAJ master cylinder conversion on the 49 ply project.

 

What I find with many of the folks I (tried to talk too) is that most are difficult to get any or all info from and most of it is via e-mail only which adds to the frustration. Rusty Hope will only converse via e-mail and I probably understand why, but it does add to the time of information and the quality of it at the needed time. But his kit is good and well thought out.  Roger from AAJ will call you back and is about as helpful as it gets, however, the master cylinder kit and bracket needed a little modification (a lot) on my end for something that was supposed to bolt right on. Plus the lid sat slightly above the floor which added another element of frustration ending up having a custom lid milled and modified the cylinder lid face for screws and a front port for a remote fill. Roger said he had never heard of that happening which I found odd as this was a bone stock 49 floor with no modifications of any kind.  I think in the end this will work quite well, but nothing is as it seems when going from stock to modified.  Best of luck.