Rear hubs off FINALLY! Looking for advice concerning drum rivets.

[Mr.Dids]

New to the forum, pilothouses and Mopars in general (I'm a life-long GM nut shhhh).

So I finally got the rear drums/hubs off and before the lectures begin, no, I didn't do it the "right" way. This truck is a '49 and had sat for at least the last 40 years. After 4 days of puller (3 jaw w/modified plates to attach to lug bolts which, again, I know is not the "right" puller) and a whole lot of heat, beat, and repeat, I finally became aggravated and grabbed the angle grinder. Honestly, at this point I was ready to torch the drums off and just replace the entire rearend if necessary. I ground off and pressed out the hub to drum rivets (I can almost hear the gasps of concern), removed the drum, and pulled the entire axle, hub, backing plate, bearing and all.

Today I took the axles and borrowed my neighbor's 35 ton press. We just about maxed the thing and the hub still wasn't having it. Finally we hit it with the torch and it left loose with a sound I can only compare to a cannon going off. There will be those who disagree I'm sure but I don't think any on truck puller was removing these things. But I digress... Right now I'm doing my happy dance at having them off and the fact that rebuilding can finally begin.

Now, my question. As previously mentioned, the hub to drum rivets are now gone. I know ideally, they should be replaced but I have no desire to go through this again just because the shoes are worn or a wheel cylinder is leaking. Can I just remount the drums using the lug bolts? Almost every modern car uses this method but I read somewhere (possibly here) that this will result in the drums not running true. Any input??? No offense to anyone but my experience with auto forums in the past has been that the responses are 90% opinion and 10% fact. I would like to stick to, well, "Just the facts, Ma'am." lol

If just using the lug bolts is a bad idea, would it work to tap the hub and replace the rivets with flathead screws?

Thanks in advance!

[P15-D24]

Do it right and replace the rivets. When you put it back together use some grease or anti-sieze on the tapered portion of the axle. It you use the correct puller and technique (read the Resources section of this site) it will be not drama. Based on 45 years of hands on experience. 

 

And welcome to the community! 

[Dodgeb4ya]

If you didn't do it right the first time don't start now.

[plymouthcranbrook]

Not to be anymore of a stinker than I have to be I could not help but note the suggestion about putting a little grease on the taper of the rear axle.  On the car side I have been informed that this is a very bad thing to do. Are the trucks different or is this simply a disagreement in the correct way to do things. Wondering because I also put a small coat of grease on the axles of my 52 Cranbrook to make removal in the future less "fun". And am hoping not to have to disassemble the rear drums again to remove the grease as has been suggested.

[P15-D24]

I've done it for years and never had an issue. You just trying to stop a rust bond from forming. 

[Dodgeb4ya]

I have used a very small wipe of grease on the axle taper and removed the drums later.

It didn't seem to make the drums easier to come off or cause any problems at all drum coming loose or split hub ect. I would think that the factory assembled the drums dry or with the very slightest film of oil on the shafts at the factory during the vehicle build.

The truck axle and hubs are the same as the cars in design.

Bob

[Mr.Dids]

I could not help but note the suggestion about putting a little grease on the taper of the rear axle.  On the car side I have been informed that this is a very bad thing to do.

I was about to mention the same thing. I too read that the taper was designed to be used dry and adding grease was akin to the end of the world. Now I'll start with opinions but it can't be a bad thing to prevent rusting. My driver's side wasn't too bad but the passenger side was rusted together the entire width of the hub. Right or wrong, mine will be anti-seized before it's reassembled.

This is what drives someone insane. You guys and girls with 30-40 or more years experience know what has worked and what didn't and that's what I'm looking for. If someone has no experience with these things and begins researching only to find one "expert" who claims dry is the only way to go and another who says the complete opposite, which are they to believe? Then you get the people who have only bench raced (and mechanic'd) their entire lives, never picked up a wrench and yet they're the "expert" and lead people astray by the hundreds. Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing this site, just speaking on how frustrating it can be. I'll put my soapbox away and be quiet now. lol

[Mr.Dids]

If you didn't do it right the first time don't start now.

Yes, I know the correct procedure. Hub puller mounted to lug bolts, tighten, smack the center, tighten some more, repeat, repeat, and the drum and hub comes loose while a choir of angels sing.

Here's the thing in my situation. I do not have the correct puller. I do have a wife, two kids, a mortgage, and a limited budget for this project. My choices were: A- Buy a decent puller for $100 +. B- Buy a cheap puller for around $50. C- Borrow someone else's puller.

So let's say I went with:

A- I pull the drums, find they're shot and need replaced. I've been seeing these drums for $200 plus and I would certainly replace the rearend before I spent $500 or more on this one (drums, brakes, seals, etc.). Only problem is I'm already into this one for over $100 (cost of puller) and I could have found a decent late model rear for about the same price. Fail

B- I break the cheap puller and now I'm down $50, still don't have the hubs off and am faced with the same choices I had in the beginning. Fail

C- I break my friend or neighbor's puller (I've been blessed with the uncanny ability to break an anvil so yes, it's possible). I'm not one of "those guys" who return a tool broken, so I buy them a new one and then either use their now new puller or buy myself one. Now I'm down $100-$200 and I'm still looking at scenario A. Fail

Option D, which wasn't mentioned above, is what I went with. Worst case, I break something or find it not worth reusing. I'm out nothing and I spend my limited money towards improving the old truck. As it turned out, I'm out next to nothing and everything is perfectly reusable (aside from wheel cylinders, seals, etc.). The only thing I've cost myself is ten rivets, if I choose to replace them. Win/Win

Long story short, I'm not an idiot. I did my homework, weighed my options, and chose the method which was "right" for me. I'm not some "newb". I have 25+ years of experience (just not with machines way before my time) and my state inspection license. Your two cents is always appreciated, just don't expect me to break a twenty.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Mr.Dids

[Young Ed]

We do have a couple guys running drums not riveted to the hubs. I think at this point I'd press in 10 studs and call it a day.

[plymouthcranbrook]

I think I gonna leave mine the way it is, didn't want to take the drums off again anyway.

[TrampSteer]

I had one where the rivets were out, and found that just the lug bolts will not align it centered. You have to mess with it while putting the tire on. Later, when you have someone pull in front of you and you slam on the brakes, it can move and suddenly your brakes are sticking because it is off-center.

 

For re-assembly, I've been taught (today) to assemble dry. I also learned from another thread here that the torque spec on the center nut is a whopping 142 foot pounds. If you don't, they will loosen (found that today too) and the the force will likely break the tapered axle.

 

Here's the twist. My guy is telling me he uses red lock-tight when he reassembles. Crazy? I don't know. Seems to work for him (63 willies overland).

[plymouthcranbrook]

I had one where the rivets were out, and found that just the lug bolts will not align it centered. You have to mess with it while putting the tire on. Later, when you have someone pull in front of you and you slam on the brakes, it can move and suddenly your brakes are sticking because it is off-center.

 

For re-assembly, I've been taught (today) to assemble dry. I also learned from another thread here that the torque spec on the center nut is a whopping 142 foot pounds. If you don't, they will loosen (found that today too) and the the force will likely break the tapered axle.

 

Here's the twist. My guy is telling me he uses red lock-tight when he reassembles. Crazy? I don't know. Seems to work for him (63 willies overland).

 

 

I too was surprised by the torque amount of the hubs as well.  Although an old Rambler Ambassador I once had had the rear axles at something like 350 Foot Pounds. Had to borrow a four foot long wrench from a friend who worked at our local Nuclear Plant(gone now, friend and plant).

Edited April 7, 2015 by plymouthcranbrook