Newbie-looking at 46 SD, have questions about inspection, what to look for and avoid!S

[roccaas]

Car looks to be a solid #2 Driver, but I'm not as up to speed on P15's as Model A's and Impalas, so some questions are in order, and thanks in advance for your help!

 

Body: Solid, but where do I look for rust, specific to this 4 door, suicide rear door model?  I'll have it up on a rack next week with a magnet, screwdriver and bright light. Briggs body, which is interesting because my '30 A Model Cabriolet is a Briggs!

 

Paint: probably was drab green (possible ex Military).  Now painted bright blue, I'd show pictures, but somebody would come down hear and bid against me for it!  Some crazing, nothing that has to be done now, but polished, some touch up, still a solid #2 driver.

 

Heater: Hoses are capped at firewall.  Underdash motor seems complete, but doesn't isn't wired in.  I can do the hoses, is there a way to add power to the motor to ensure it works without damaging the motor before I buy the car?

 

3 on the tree.  Solid, slow, seems to be some adjustment needed to find Neutral between 1 and 2.  I'm assuming this is adjusting the linkage at the bottom of the steering flag shaft like all other 3 on the tree's?

 

Brakes are VERY heavy.  Car stops straight, but with ALOT of effort.  I'll pull the wheels and brakes to ensure that they are at least undamaged.  I understand the physical force necessary for a non-power brake car, especially of this size/weight, but this is a like trying to stop a 4000 pound Model A with mechanical brakes.  Is it expensive/worth it to go to power/hudraulic brakes?  Still a driver, and I'm not a stickler for NOS original under the hood, etc.

 

Engine: revs willingly.  I'm assuming its original or close enough.  I know Stovebolts, and I'm assuming the 217 @ 95 hp is just as easy to work on and find parts, and should last if taken well care of.  CAN THIS BE AIRCONDITIONED?  I don't see anything on the big AC sites for a 46 Mopar.  Can you retrofit something?  Build the brackets to allow the conversion of a Chevy or Ford product.

 

Headliner is drooping in places.  Upholstery tacky spray?

 

 

Interior is in nice shape, just general cleaning of the upholstery and carpets.  I really like the angled foot rest and robe hanger for the HUGE back seat.

 

Tires are excellent -wide hite walls.  Kuhmo tires I think.

 

The clear plastic hood ornament is badly fractured.  This would be a part I'd want to light up well, and to be clean and clear.

 

I'm assuming 6 volt positive ground?

 

Generator and Starter look original or at least UOS.

 

Radio doesn't work.  Can they be fixed?  I don't hang new radios in old cars, AM is just fine with me.

 

Some of the glass is delaminating.   Doesn't need to be fixed now, but eventually.

 

Has a working spotlight.  Are parts available to keep these going?

 

Has "Cat Eye" amber driving lights, not hooked up.  I'm assuming they were controlled from the center of the dash?  Easy enough to RELAY a circuit for Cat Eyes.

 

Has aluminum(?) bumpers, i'm assuming from post war transition back to civilian vehicles?

 

Vacuum windshields are slow to start and stop.  I'm assuming a rebuilding of the control circuit?

 

Parts and Vendors in general.  We're blessed with great Ford and Chevy parts houses: correct stuff, people who know what they're talking about, willing to help.  

 

Rust, still the biggest issue.  A medium intensive inspection on the ground did't show any rust, the lift is the final arbitrator!

 

What do solit #2 drivers usually go for.  I can't find anything on eBay or Hemmings that hasn't been hot rodded in order to compare.

 

Thanks guys!

 

 

[Andydodge]

Roccas, you should get a whole pile of guys chipping in but from sunny Sth Grafton in Australia....Welcome to the best Mopar forum.......these guys know their stuff.....a couple of things from me...these cars have hydraulic brakes, a booster can be plumbed in which will help........Rust depends I suppose on where the car has been used, if its from a salted road area I'd look everywhere underneath......but the rockers, the area in behind the front fenders lower down on the side of the cowl, up under the trunk floor, the spare tyre well all would deserve a 2nd glance....I've never heard of alloy bumpers......I'd recheck them.......shifter linkage at the column and also the linkage ate the gearbox all tend to wear & get sloppy........air conditioning was never offered on mopar sixes till the mid late 50's as far as I know, anything is doable if you want it bad enough but you'll need a twin/power steering style crank and water pump pulleys which would be mid 50's again........Mopar radios are advertised regularly on ebay, they are the vertical style ones, I think that there is a few variations but all have the same fitting late 30's thru to 1948 I think......the roof lining is held on via stiff rods thru which the roof lining is threaded then the rods are held onto the side of the inside of the roof via small screws......possibly its repairable but a visit to an upholsterer would be the best bet.......anyway hope this helps.......I would strongly suggest getting a shop or workshop manual these are advertised on ebay regularly, just make sure to get a paper version.......disc ones ain't worth ****......lol..........regards, andyd

[Don Coatney]

Suspect rust areas are the same as any other old car. Floor under drivers feet and spare tire well in the trunk. Most parts are available for all mechanical/electrical devices on the car. Price to pay depends on how much you want the car. Value is typically lower than furds and shiverlays of the same era.

 

I am a bit confused on what your plans are. You say you want an original car then you say you want to add air conditioning and power brakes. Both are doable depending on how deep your pockets are.

 

Pictures would help on pricing but I understand you not wanting a bidding war.

[Tones52]

Unlike the Chevy's, body and trim parts may not be as plentiful so if this '46 that you're looking at has all of it's trim and body panels in good shape, then you're that much ahead.

 

I remember about this time last year seeing a similar year Plymouth with the suicide doors that was fairly complete with paint and interior done selling for $8k on Craigslist and it was up for a long time, but I was tempted when I was looking for my "retirement project"

 

For AC, I believe it's jdcranbrook that has an AC set up in his '52 but it will require a 12 volt conversion.

 

As for mechanical issues that come up, the members of this forum and the Old Plymouths forum are very helpful. I certainly have benefitted.

 

Hope you get it and when you do, post the photos. Good luck!

[Plymouthy Adams]

avoid buying any car you are not comfortable with driving or doing any maintenance work on let alone any and all body/trim afflictions...DO consider the very age of this car and by description above..it is definitely a used car with no warranties  of any kind....as in all private party sales..buyer beware...I know you are akding here to come up to speed..but if you have messed with cars at all...you should well be aware of the methods to ensure the dollar exchange for goods received will be equivalent value..if not..then do get a professional appraisal.   These cars are worth what you are willing to pay between you and the seller...condition is all..location is very important..in the rust belt...this may be very low in dollars but in a prime region where rust is not so much an issue granted the car will be in better condition as reflected by a higher asking price...if you looking for a car that has all parts available through reproduction and expect a bolt and play car...you may not be happy with this purchase..

Edited June 7, 2014 by Plymouthy Adams

[roccaas]

Suspect rust areas are the same as any other old car. Floor under drivers feet and spare tire well in the trunk. Most parts are available for all mechanical/electrical devices on the car. Price to pay depends on how much you want the car. Value is typically lower than furds and shiverlays of the same era.

 

I am a bit confused on what your plans are. You say you want an original car then you say you want to add air conditioning and power brakes. Both are doable depending on how deep your pockets are.

 

Pictures would help on pricing but I understand you not wanting a bidding war.

 

Stock mostly.  No Small Block Chevy and American Racing Wheels.  Paint that looks like 1946, but not necessarily shade perfect.  Booster for safety.  AC because ITS HOT DOWN HERE IN GEORGIA.  I usually drive after work at night for fun, and I don't ever want to get into a NOS war with a true collector, but I want it to be at least -re buildable as factory stock if someone wants to do that.  I need a 3X per week driver, and putting myself and others at risk because of non-booster brakes isn't worth being "true factory stock" in my book.  Also, without AC, the car is a 3 months a year driver.  Sort of half way between stock and "2nd Day aftermarket" idea.

[Plymouthy Adams]

these cars are very doable in either stock, modified and anything in between...you are not limited very much on your build except by time, ability and pocketbook...

 

what are you calling SE Georgia..Valdosta is my definition of the area...

[Don Coatney]

I think of Savannah and all points south as SE Georgia

[Don Coatney]

This air conditioned P-15 used to and may still reside near Dublin, GA. Air conditioning is doable.

 

 

 

 

 

[Oldguy48]

I'll reply to your question about air conditioning. I searched long and hard for an A/C unit to install in my P15. Most of the evaporator/blower units were too large to fit under the dashboard. Old Air Products in Texas had a "Hurricane" model that required about the same amount of space as the original heater. It does require 12V to operate, but if you want A/C, you will likely have to tackle a 12V conversion. I also do not have the 6 cyl. flathead anymore either, but adding the A/C compressor to the flathead shouldn't be very difficult. I'm sure it's been done many times. Good luck.

Wayne

[Ulu]

Check for bondo & rust below the tail lights,down  at the bottom of the panel. Look inside the trunk right there for hidden rot.

 

Look under the floor at that bodymount area right by the front door posts (the "A" pillars) particularly if the front doors look low at the rear.

 

Aluminum bumpers are probably Brizo aftermarket bumpers. Stock was chromed steel.

 

I drove a flathead 6 as my daily driver for years and was pretty pleased, except that the 6v electrics take some care to maintain, and the fuel system leaked a bit.

 

The brakes are NOT self-adjusting and they require some fine tuning to work really well. If there's fluid on the shoes or it's out of adjustment, it'll take a LOT of pedal pressure to stop.

 

That being said, if you want an old car from this era, you've chosen the one that's easiest to fix, easiest to find (most) parts for, and really about the most reliable and economical family car of its day.

 

It's all about value. they were a good value then and they are a good value in a collector car, now.

 

But remember that they made a million of these cars. Only time has made them rare or desireable. They were as common as flies in the late 40's & early 50's and priced accordingly then as now.

[Jerry Roberts]

In Don C.'s post number 9 , the photo shows AC in a 6 volt car . 

[Plymouthy Adams]

Jerry Roberts, on 08 Jun 2014 - 12:36 AM, said:

In Don C.'s post number 9 , the photo shows AC in a 6 volt car . 

BUT..if you look close...you will see a 6 volt generator in factory configuration and also a 12 volt alternator mounted onto the engine...further the 6 volt is still positive ground and the 12 volt is negative ground...further evidence of this is the actual batteries also visible in the pictures

[roccaas]

I'm Savannah and SC Low Country - Muggy, must have AC!!

[DonaldSmith]

Hmmmm....  Studying the photo...  How did he bracket an air conditioning compressor and an alternator at the top of the engine?  Off the head bolts.  

 

So, he was able to attach an accessory at the right side of the engine, and an accessory high left, without lowering the generator.  

 

Where was this photo when I was cobbling together my power steering pump bracket?

 

It just goes to show you that there is more than one way to do something.  

[Don Coatney]

This is all the photos I have of that engine.

 

 

 

Here are a photo of a friend from Tennessee who added air to his 36 Plymouth.