Oil pump, again-

[blueskies]

I called Terril Machine, and they no longer sell the oil pumps.

Anyone know where I might find one?

The pumps that I have gotten from Vintage Power Wagons are high volume pumps, and my engine runs at a constant 50psi oil pressure. Would a NOS or used original pump be that much different?

Wondering what to do, what to do... I could just put my old pump back on, and live with a very, very slight wobble, and keep the 50psi. Or buy another pump ($95) and hope that it isn't out of spec like the last two. Or find a used old pump and hope for decent pressure. Or...??

Pete

[Lou Earle]

Isn't the oil pressure controlled largely by the condition of the bearings and the clearances more so than the pump?

[blueskies]

Isn't the oil pressure controlled largely by the condition of the bearings and the clearances more so than the pump?

Lou-

I'm not sure, but I would think that a high volume pump would increase the pressure?

The pressure relieve valve spring also plays a role in the pressure of the system.

Pete

[Young Ed]

Pete neither of my flatheads runs at over 45. So far you have 2 from VPW and then your old one? The machine shop that did mine supplied both the oil pumps. I'd be happy to get you his # if that helps. Otherwise I'd bet napa has these pumps.

[blueskies]

Pete neither of my flatheads runs at over 45. So far you have 2 from VPW and then your old one? The machine shop that did mine supplied both the oil pumps. I'd be happy to get you his # if that helps. Otherwise I'd bet napa has these pumps.

Ed-

I don't have my old one, I think I turned it in for a core or something. If I did have it, I would put it on and call it good....

Pete

[James_Douglas]

Pete,

You know my engine has less than 1000 miles on it and is less than 6 months old. With new oil, or old, at road speed I have 40 PSI. At idle with new oil I have 25 PSI and with oil nearing change time it is 20PSI at idle.

I have a pump that was working fine on my old engine. Next week I have a couple of days free. If you want to, give me call and tell me EXACTLY how you are meassuring the pump body and I will see if that one is within spec.

If so, I can take a few hours and tear it down and go through the re-build process as outlined in the books. I can then send it over night to you when done. You would owe me a beer sometime...

James

[morson82]

I was lucky..I found an NOS oil pump at the Rhinebeck NY Car Show. I paid $25.00 for it....Good luck!

morson82

[blueskies]

Pete,

You know my engine has less than 1000 miles on it and is less than 6 months old. With new oil, or old, at road speed I have 40 PSI. At idle with new oil I have 25 PSI and with oil nearing change time it is 20PSI at idle.

I have a pump that was working fine on my old engine. Next week I have a couple of days free. If you want to, give me call and tell me EXACTLY how you are meassuring the pump body and I will see if that one is within spec.

If so, I can take a few hours and tear it down and go through the re-build process as outlined in the books. I can then send it over night to you when done. You would owe me a beer sometime...

James

James-

Thanks for the offer, sound like a bunch of work for you though...

The way I measured the pump that I have is this:

I stuck my magnetic dial indicator base on the flat boss of the pump, where contacts the block, and put the tip of the dial indicator on the shaft in three different places: the outside of the shaft at the tip, where the distributor fits; the inside of the tip; and the shaft itself that can bee seen inside the housing through the side of the pump housing.

This tells if the shaft is turning true to the housing, or if it is bent, causing a wobble as it turns around in the housing.

The other measurement I did was to clamp the tip of the shaft in a vise, stick the magnetic dial indicator base to the vise, and put the tip of the indicator on the machined housing that encloses the shaft. Then, by spinning the housing around, you can see if the housing is concentric to the shaft itself.

I found that my first pump housing is not concentric to the shaft, so the shaft spins true, but off axis to the distributor shaft. I have no idea what the tolerances should be for this, and 6 thous is hardly enough to see visually, but it may be enough to make a difference.

Pete

[Don Coatney]

Pete,

You know my engine has less than 1000 miles on it and is less than 6 months old. With new oil, or old, at road speed I have 40 PSI. At idle with new oil I have 25 PSI and with oil nearing change time it is 20PSI at idle.

I have a pump that was working fine on my old engine. Next week I have a couple of days free. If you want to, give me call and tell me EXACTLY how you are meassuring the pump body and I will see if that one is within spec.

If so, I can take a few hours and tear it down and go through the re-build process as outlined in the books. I can then send it over night to you when done. You would owe me a beer sometime...

James

James;

I am not sure the oil pumps are the same for a long and short block.

Pete;

Give George Asche a call. (814) 354-2621

[PatS....]

Pete, these guys are in Oroville, WA. as well as Peachland BC

sales@collectorsautosupply.com

1-250-767-1974 ask for Greg local 222

http://www.nosmopar.com/parts-lists.htm

[Young Ed]

Ed-

I don't have my old one, I think I turned it in for a core or something. If I did have it, I would put it on and call it good....

Pete

Pete what I was getting at is if both of your new ones are from the same place perhaps that place got a bad batch. I wouldn't risk all that work on your new engine with a used pump either. Gotta find a new or rebuilt one that works properly. I'm sure we've got a few old ones around if you need one for rebuilding etc

[James_Douglas]

Pete,

I pulled the pump from my old engine. Once I got the bulk of the grime off the pump, I made the measurements except the one with the body rotating as I don't have a good way to hold the tip of the shaft.

The pump is an original MOPAR part number 1314-611. I don't have anything to tell me which year as my 46-48 Desoto book lists a 1124-735.

The inside of the tip showed about 3 to 4 thousands.

The outside of the trip showed about 3 to 4 thousands.

The outside near the lower end of the gear showed about 2.5 to 3 thousands.

The main shaft, through the body hole, showed about 2.5 thousands.

I put it into some chemtool to soak over night to get it good an clean. By the way, the lower shaft has several thousands of movement, no doubt due to the lower busing being worn.

Best, James

[grey beard]

Hey Guys,

Don't mean to spoil yer fun, but pumps don't make pressure - they make flow. It is resistance to flow that makes pressure.

Having said all that, it is my understanding that one could change pumps until the proverbial cows come home and top end pressure would no change one iota. Top end pressure is ordained by the pressure regulaor and its spring. If you wanna raise pressure in the oil galleys of your motor, pull the pressure regulator spring, add a shim or change it to an bigger pressure part number - vpw sells them too- they're green, if memory serves.

On the same topic, one would think that if oil pressure rose too much over 50psi, oil filter fittings and lines would begin to leak. Some engine oil pumps have a pressure relief valve, and then there is a pressure regulaor elsewhere. Our pumps have no relief valve - just the pressure regulator between the starter and distributor. LOL

[Normspeed]

Pete, glad to hear you tracked down the wobble. I kind of suspected something like an off center shaft or off axis shaft. I'd think that short term you could run with the very slight wobble, while you shop for a trued up pump or take James up on his excellent offer. It's funny how the modern replacement parts sometimes are poorer quality than the originals manufactured with old technology. Like with new wheel cylinders.

50 lbs is a lot of oil pressure, I guess you beefed up the relief valve. Shouldn't hurt anything except that the extra pumping resistance might be robbing horsepower for the Big Race.

[martybose]

Hey Guys,

Don't mean to spoil yer fun, but pumps don't make pressure - they make flow. It is resistance to flow that makes pressure.

Having said all that, it is my understanding that one could change pumps until the proverbial cows come home and top end pressure would no change one iota. Top end pressure is ordained by the pressure regulaor and its spring. If you wanna raise pressure in the oil galleys of your motor, pull the pressure regulator spring, add a shim or change it to an bigger pressure part number - vpw sells them too- they're green, if memory serves.

On the same topic, one would think that if oil pressure rose too much over 50psi, oil filter fittings and lines would begin to leak. Some engine oil pumps have a pressure relief valve, and then there is a pressure regulaor elsewhere. Our pumps have no relief valve - just the pressure regulator between the starter and distributor. LOL

Some of you may remember the oiling system I installed on my 230 engine, which uses a stock pump modified to feed an external full flow filter, then goes through an external oil pressure regulator, then back into the engine. The first time I fired up the engine that stock pump made over 100 lbs. of oil pressure. I've turned down the pressure a bit, but it still makes 75 lbs. of pressure cold using 10-40 weight oil. Hot at highway speeds it makes about 50 lbs.

So the limiting factor isn't the pump, it's the in-block pressure regulator.

Marty

[Jim Saraceno]

I thought I bought my oil pump at a local Auto Zone. It is running a constant 50 pounds pressure. Does that mean something is wrong? If so, what should I be looking at?

[norrism1]

Blueskies, According to MOTORS manual. The Plymouth 1935-51 pressure should be from 30 to 45 lbs. @ speeds above 30 mph.

Also- The standard oil pressure relief spring is unpainted, the light pressure spring is Red and the higher pressure spring is painted Green.

[Norm's Coupe]

Pete,

It's been since 1999 since I looked last, but JC Whitney also sold oil pumps for our engines. Saw them in the catalog. Don't know if they still sell them or not. Remember, their online catalog does not show everything that is in the paper catalog. So, look in the paper catalog or give them a call.

[Ian Morrison]

Hi Pete ....I don't know if you got your oil pump fixed, but I thought I'd let you know there is on on ebay......(it's not mine, just thought I'd tell you)

#180111185584

Or try this http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1938-59-Dodge-Desoto-Plymouth-Oil-Pump-6-cyl-NOS_W0QQitemZ180111185584QQihZ008QQcategoryZ6778QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Ian

PS ...Good Luck

[Jim Yergin]

I have seen items for sale by this seller before. Has anyone purchased from him in Istanbul, Turkey?

Jim Yergin

[james curl]

Pete, Advance lists two oil pumps on their innernet site. One is a Melling M37 at $125.99 and an AE Clevite 6011065 for $127.99 NAPA list an oil pump for $109.00. Hope this is of some help.