Steering Box Debate

[55 Fargo]

Okay this thread is not to tick anyone off, or rile anyone up, just a process of discovery, to determine the facts of the age old steering box lube question.

Okay I have read a lot of the threads, have added my 2 cents, and may have started a few in the past.

I always thought my steering box on the 47 was a bit loose, but it has some play, but is actually quite good, as compared to the trucks current steering gear.

Now on Canuck built Dodge and Fargos, they used Ingersoll Machine steering gears, not sure if this is unique to Canada or not, design is no doubt the same as the US built Dodge trucks.

As I have revealed, my current steering is dangerously sloppy, the tie rods ends, have slight play, but the box is the culprit.

So I have a donor box on the bench, got to clean it and paint it. But it is another leaker, which would indicate, time to replace seals.

Now seal replacement on this box, will it require a machne shop to install, does it require any other itmes to seal this thing up.

How many of you have replaced seals to discover the box still leaks, or it was a success, and you have not looked back.

How many of you still use grease,(as I do in m 47 Chrysler), without any adverse effects.

There is Penlite, and John Deere Corn Head Grease, very thin viscosity grease, to allow some fluidity, while being quite solid and stable as compared to 90 weight gear oil.

Now I am sure there will be the advisors who state only gear oil should be used, and others who claim grease is just fine.

I want to find out, what is needed, and what I may need to do to seal this steering box correctly.........

[Joe Flanagan]

I rebuilt the steering gear box in my 49 and have had no leaks. I don't recall needing any special equipment (it was a while ago). I used 90-weight gear oil. The steering box on my '56 Chevrolet truck is the same basic design, but is filled with a much thicker lubricant, like axle grease. I have had no problems or leaks with that, either.

[55 Fargo]

I rebuilt the steering gear box in my 49 and have had no leaks. I don't recall needing any special equipment (it was a while ago). I used 90-weight gear oil. The steering box on my '56 Chevrolet truck is the same basic design, but is filled with a much thicker lubricant, like axle grease. I have had no problems or leaks with that, either.

Thanx Joe, I may go the 0 weight JD corn head grease route. I just finished cleanign and painting this steering box.

Going to look into getting seals for it too...

[Oldguy48]

My P15 steering box leaks a bit, so when it's time to add some lube, it will be JD Corn Head Grease. The grease is sitting on the shelf awaiting its call to duty. Still plenty of oil in the steering box so far, but it leaves its mark on the garage floor, so sooner or later it will be time to top it off.

[55 Fargo]

My P15 steering box leaks a bit, so when it's time to add some lube, it will be JD Corn Head Grease. The grease is sitting on the shelf awaiting its call to duty. Still plenty of oil in the steering box so far, but it leaves its mark on the garage floor, so sooner or later it will be time to top it off.

Why no add a little of the semi-fluid grease into the gear oil, now. That way it is even more fluid, and may stop all leaking....

[Oldguy48]

That's a good idea. I may try that when I'm under the hood tinkering again.

[Andydodge]

Rock, the original lube for these steering boxes was heavy viscosity oil, 90-140 weight. The problem with these steering boxes is that the pitman shaft seal was originally leather, didn't last real long, became brittle and let the oil leak out.......its a bit of a pain to replace the seal as the pitman arm has to be removed and then the seal installed.........although its a better more accurate job to take out the steering box, wheel, column, etc etc etc and install the nice new seal in a nice empty steering box.........so not many got replaced.

The easier thing was to undo the oil cap on the top of the steering box and squirt a gutfull of grease......yeh that'll fix it.......not.

The grease can't really get into all the nooks & crannies that nice slippery oil can so eventually the grease just sits around the steering box internals, protecting them from maybe rust but not lubricating the bearings or bushings.........an overly unsuccessful job.

As you have the box on the bench I'd definately install a new seal, I wouldn't touch a leather seal even for free......... take the pitman shaft and steering box housing to a bearing shop and get a nice modern neoprene seal and that should be the end of any leaks. years ago I found that the seal size was the same as an Oz GM Holden steering box seal and used one of them to seal the buggar.

For a steering box still in the cars & leaking I'd get the thickest oil I could find and throw that in, at least it will get to the bearings & bushes to offer some oiliness........

For what its worth I still have to replace the seal in my 41 Plymouth........lol.....good luck in the job....andyd

[Joe Flanagan]

I was just reading on another forum that some guys mix cornhead grease with 90w or something similar until they get the consistency they prefer. So doing it that way might get you decent lubrication and minimal leaking. Haven't tried it myself.

[Dan Hiebert]

New seals will stop leaks as long as the parts are still true. I'd echo avoiding leather, but I'm guessing new kits/seals are all made with neoprene or similar rubber anyway. I don't know how "thin" corn head grease is, but after seeing what regular grease will do (or rather not do) to the worm and sector shaft gears first hand I'd highly recommend the manufacturer's recommended gear oil. But whatever you decide to use needs to get between the moving parts and stay there. The type of lubricant you use shouldn't be based on stopping leaks or convenience.

[55 Fargo]

New seals will stop leaks as long as the parts are still true. I'd echo avoiding leather, but I'm guessing new kits/seals are all made with neoprene or similar rubber anyway. I don't know how "thin" corn head grease is, but after seeing what regular grease will do (or rather not do) to the worm and sector shaft gears first hand I'd highly recommend the manufacturer's recommended gear oil. But whatever you decide to use needs to get between the moving parts and stay there. The type of lubricant you use shouldn't be based on stopping leaks or convenience.

This grease is very thin, and do not think it would have any issues with ruining things inside.

A lot of times, steering boxes went dry and were worn before someone came along and filled them up with grease......

[55 Fargo]

Rock, the original lube for these steering boxes was heavy viscosity oil, 90-140 weight. The problem with these steering boxes is that the pitman shaft seal was originally leather, didn't last real long, became brittle and let the oil leak out.......its a bit of a pain to replace the seal as the pitman arm has to be removed and then the seal installed.........although its a better more accurate job to take out the steering box, wheel, column, etc etc etc and install the nice new seal in a nice empty steering box.........so not many got replaced.

The easier thing was to undo the oil cap on the top of the steering box and squirt a gutfull of grease......yeh that'll fix it.......not.

The grease can't really get into all the nooks & crannies that nice slippery oil can so eventually the grease just sits around the steering box internals, protecting them from maybe rust but not lubricating the bearings or bushings.........an overly unsuccessful job.

As you have the box on the bench I'd definately install a new seal, I wouldn't touch a leather seal even for free......... take the pitman shaft and steering box housing to a bearing shop and get a nice modern neoprene seal and that should be the end of any leaks. years ago I found that the seal size was the same as an Oz GM Holden steering box seal and used one of them to seal the buggar.

For a steering box still in the cars & leaking I'd get the thickest oil I could find and throw that in, at least it will get to the bearings & bushes to offer some oiliness........

For what its worth I still have to replace the seal in my 41 Plymouth........lol.....good luck in the job....andyd

The key word, is that parts aren't so worn, that a seal won't seal.

I am going to isntall a seal, and see what happens. If it does not seal, corn head it will be, no qualms about it...

[55 Fargo]

I was just reading on another forum that some guys mix cornhead grease with 90w or something similar until they get the consistency they prefer. So doing it that way might get you decent lubrication and minimal leaking. Haven't tried it myself.

Yup, to create a very thick fluid gear lube.

The JD corn head grease is 0 weight, used in many type gear boxes, should be no issue using this on our steering boxes.

[55 Fargo]

1 other thing, this steering box, as other Canadian Dodge or Fargo trucks, had Ingersoll Machine steering boxes, not Gemmers. Now where in the ehck do you find the seals for this, I have heard that a Ford seal works, but from what year,model etc.

Any Canuck truck owners have any clues?????

[austinsailor]

Go to a good bearing supplier with the old one, or your parts. They should be able to find it after measuring it. NAPA has found several for me.

[55 Fargo]

Go to a good bearing supplier with the old one, or your parts. They should be able to find it after measuring it. NAPA has found several for me.

Its there right now, and at their machine shop, had steering wheel nut threads cleaned up, and the shaft seal is 1 1/4 inside, 1 11/16 outside.

Vintage Power Wagon, does not have them, and their advice is JD conr head grease, which is fine with me too. I have 1 box with STP in it, and it is doing fine....

[55 Fargo]

Just got a phone call from the shop, new seal installed, threads cleaned up on steering shaft that bolts the wheel down. Total= $20.00 labor + $5.00 for the seal.

Now when I get it home, will fill with gear oil on bench and see if it holds.....

[austinsailor]

Please get the number of the seal for us. Recently I posted that a $5 seal would solve this problem and I got some flack for it.

[55 Fargo]

Please get the number of the seal for us. Recently I posted that a $5 seal would solve this problem and I got some flack for it.

My steering box is a Ingersoll Machine(Canadian built trucks), the seal may not be the same size as your Gemmer boxes.

The s seal is slighly thicker, about 1/16 of an inch, b ut no big deal. I do not know yet if it will seal the box fom leaking 90 gear oil.

Whats the big deal, nothing to special about a seal ,if it fits and seals is what counts......

[Andydodge]

Yep, I'd be interested in that number also...........andyd

[55 Fargo]

Yep, I'd be interested in that number also...........andyd

Again guys, this box is the ingersoll machine steering gear for Canadian built trucks, will not necessarily be the same as the Gemmers..

[55 Fargo]

Okay the new staeering gear seal I used, is a Chicago Rawhide( seal is neoprene), Part # 12333 size 1.250 insdie diameter for shaft, and 1 11/16 for the outer diameter for the housing.

This is an Ingersoll Machine Steering box for Canadian built Fargo and Dodge trucks.

The gear is on the bench filled with heavy weight gear lube, so far no signs of leaking, but just poured it in.

Also keep in mind this generic sael is slightly thicker than the OEM, protruding out, about .060 or a 1/16 of an inch, which in no way hampers the pitman arm...

[Young Ed]

That new seal being slightly thicker might be a good thing. If the old one had worn any kind of groove in the shaft the new seal being thicker should put the worn spot on the inside and give you a fresh start on the sealing surface.

[55 Fargo]

That new seal being slightly thicker might be a good thing. If the old one had worn any kind of groove in the shaft the new seal being thicker should put the worn spot on the inside and give you a fresh start on the sealing surface.

Great minds think alike,my thoughts today too, I remember you telling me about the pinion seals, and not pushing them all the way in, so they seal better.

I swear there is slightly less play in this gear with the new seal,. but can't be....

[55 Fargo]

Hey would it be an option to cut the steering column and rod in 2 pieces on my old steering box still in the truck.

The steering box is shot, and would it be any easier to have it all in 2 pieces for removal, then I may be able to pull steering wheel off on the bench.

Just pondering if this is a good or bad idea.......Fred

[JSabah]

Does the steering box need to be out of the car in order to install new seals?  If so, other than using a grease to slow the drip, is there any “stop leak” which can be used (I’ve used an additive on another car for a rear main seal and a Lucas product for a power steering rack.)