Allan Faust Posted April 12, 2007 Report Posted April 12, 2007 Ok, Had a discussion with a few buddies and I want to run the idea up here to get some input.... now as mentioned in a previous thread, the machining costs wil be running bout $800 for the flattie...... I can also get both a 318 and a 360 for next to nothing.... which brings me to plan B... both the 318 and 360 are running, with the tranny.... I still will be rebuilding the flattie, getting the parts together over a short while and putting the cash together for the machine work.... However, I had a few questions.... if I use the 318 (most likely) or 360.... do I have to do any firewall mods? What other "possible problems" could come up.... and also, when it comes to the rear end... I don't think the 4.11 will cut it... I was suggested max 3.00 for the rear, but what vehicle would have a rear end with that ratio and be about the same width as my 50???? I know that there is a Dana 60 (I believe its a 60) on both the 318 and 360... but since its a van, I don't know the wheelbase and I want to make sure that I get what I need.... since both of the rear ends on both the vehicles in question would come with the engine if I want them.... Ideas, suggestions.... yo zen masters and gurus..... need some input.... Allan Quote
Normspeed Posted April 12, 2007 Report Posted April 12, 2007 My opinion, a simple engine/drivetrain swap is like minor surgery. Ain't no such thing. Cooling system mods, steering box clearance, motor/tranny mounts, crossmember mods, driveshaft mods, spring perch mods, throttle and transmission linkages, new exhaust system all need to be considered. If you're thinking of going back to the flathead 6 down the line, you'll be looking at reversing a lot of changes later. Rebuilding the 6 and installing it where it came from is a lot less complicated. All depends on what you want to end up with, and how much you want to spend to get there. And how much welding equipment you have handy:D Ok,Had a discussion with a few buddies and I want to run the idea up here to get some input.... now as mentioned in a previous thread, the machining costs wil be running bout $800 for the flattie...... I can also get both a 318 and a 360 for next to nothing.... which brings me to plan B... both the 318 and 360 are running, with the tranny.... I still will be rebuilding the flattie, getting the parts together over a short while and putting the cash together for the machine work.... However, I had a few questions.... if I use the 318 (most likely) or 360.... do I have to do any firewall mods? What other "possible problems" could come up.... and also, when it comes to the rear end... I don't think the 4.11 will cut it... I was suggested max 3.00 for the rear, but what vehicle would have a rear end with that ratio and be about the same width as my 50???? I know that there is a Dana 60 (I believe its a 60) on both the 318 and 360... but since its a van, I don't know the wheelbase and I want to make sure that I get what I need.... since both of the rear ends on both the vehicles in question would come with the engine if I want them.... Ideas, suggestions.... yo zen masters and gurus..... need some input.... Allan Quote
Norm's Coupe Posted April 12, 2007 Report Posted April 12, 2007 Allan, I don't have a problem with putting a V8 in the old Plymouth's. However, even if you can get the V8 setup free, it's still going to cost about the same amount of money to make the conversion by the time you are done. So, if you want the V8, it should fit without cutting the firewall but it won't save much money if any to convert. Quote
Young Ed Posted April 12, 2007 Report Posted April 12, 2007 Allan I'd say I agree with the other two. If you want a flathead forget the v8s completely. Way too much work to do just to undo it later! Quote
PatS.... Posted April 12, 2007 Report Posted April 12, 2007 I crunched some numbers when I was deciding on a SBC or not. I also had a good one in the garage. With mounts from Plydo, it is a reasonably simple job, but there were all the other things like rad, trans mount, drive shaft, etc Bottom line is the price is the same. If you were hoping to save money, you won't. If you go with the flattie, you have a new engine. The V8 route, you have a used engine. I almost went the V8 route simply because I couldn't find a decent flattie. I'm going with the flattie because, to be honest, I LOVE the sound of a Mopar flat six. I like the simplicity I like having something that's not under every hood. It's a connection to my mis-spent youth. And, I don't like fabricating stuff at every step. At the end of the day, you have to weigh all the things that are important to you and decide what works best. Good luck Quote
RobertKB Posted April 12, 2007 Report Posted April 12, 2007 I say stay with the flattie and do some of the mods others on this forum have done like dual carbs. Also have seen a couple of quotes on this forum and if combined they make sense also - "Flatheads Forever: OHV are a passing faze". I am 100% in agreement with Pat about the sound of a flattie - I just love it. I can stand by one and listen to it run for a good five minutes. Quote
Allan Faust Posted April 12, 2007 Author Report Posted April 12, 2007 My opinion, a simple engine/drivetrain swap is like minor surgery. Ain't no such thing. Cooling system mods, steering box clearance, motor/tranny mounts, crossmember mods, driveshaft mods, spring perch mods, throttle and transmission linkages, new exhaust system all need to be considered. If you're thinking of going back to the flathead 6 down the line, you'll be looking at reversing a lot of changes later. Rebuilding the 6 and installing it where it came from is a lot less complicated. All depends on what you want to end up with, and how much you want to spend to get there. And how much welding equipment you have handy:D There were 2 things that came to mind when it came to Plan B..... one, which one of my buddies mentioned, was that when it comes to long distances, with a SBC or a 318/360 it would be easier to get parts if something breaks down.... (he hauled a hiker one time with his rod with a SBC because the guy broke an engine part that it took him 3 wks to get). Second thing is.... like you mentioned, about the mods to this, to that, new this, new that.... take a look at what I've got at the moment..... I'm working with a clean slate here.... Allan Quote
blueskies Posted April 12, 2007 Report Posted April 12, 2007 Like the other's here, I stuck with my flatty for a couple of reasons... One, I love the sound, and to me, this is the heart and soul of my car. I swapped a V8 into my '53 chevy truck, and at the same time gutted the soul that I had come to love. It will never be the same, no matter how fun it is in it's current state (and it's alot of fun ). Two, I didn't want to re-invent the wheel with my '50 Plymouth project. I have very little time I can dedicate to the car so I wanted it to be a bolt in deal. I spend countless hours on my truck dealing with mounts, exhaust, steering nightmares, cooling system issues etc. Now that it's in there, I love it even more. And, there's always a crowd looking under the hood because they've either never seen one, or haven't seen one for decades. Pete Quote
PatS.... Posted April 12, 2007 Report Posted April 12, 2007 Well, over at the AACA, they contend that by putting a V8 in a vintage car, you are some kind of heretic, you are destroying our nations history and denying our kids the opportunity to see a historic artifact!!!! I don't think that way at all. I like 'em restored and I like 'em with a V8. The part about not being able to get engine parts is probably true, however, if you need internal engine parts, you're on a hook even if you have a V8. The peripherals like generator, starter etc you can likely work around and drive home, or repair yourself. I think if you are expecting us to decide for you, it ain't gonna happen. The nice thing about this forum is that you will get support no matter which way you go. Looks like the V8 route will get you up and running maybe sooner. Good luck. Quote
Don Coatney Posted April 12, 2007 Report Posted April 12, 2007 Ok,Had a discussion with a few buddies and I want to run the idea up here to get some input.... now as mentioned in a previous thread, the machining costs wil be running bout $800 for the flattie...... I can also get both a 318 and a 360 for next to nothing.... which brings me to plan B... both the 318 and 360 are running, with the tranny.... I still will be rebuilding the flattie, getting the parts together over a short while and putting the cash together for the machine work.... However, I had a few questions.... if I use the 318 (most likely) or 360.... do I have to do any firewall mods? What other "possible problems" could come up.... and also, when it comes to the rear end... I don't think the 4.11 will cut it... I was suggested max 3.00 for the rear, but what vehicle would have a rear end with that ratio and be about the same width as my 50???? I know that there is a Dana 60 (I believe its a 60) on both the 318 and 360... but since its a van, I don't know the wheelbase and I want to make sure that I get what I need.... since both of the rear ends on both the vehicles in question would come with the engine if I want them.... Ideas, suggestions.... yo zen masters and gurus..... need some input.... Allan Allan; Choice is yours. My friend Bob Criswell sent me an e-mail yesterday. He is the guy I bought my engine from. A few years back he put a 318 in a P-15. Had everything bolted in and discovered he could not remove the distributor. Had to pull the engine and modify the firewall. I sure love my flattie! Quote
Allan Faust Posted April 12, 2007 Author Report Posted April 12, 2007 I think if you are expecting us to decide for you, it ain't gonna happen. Don't worry about that Pat.... I've got the final decision no matter what.... but I want to check out all the possible pitfalls and advantages before I decide.... and I know that the rear end is one of them.... among others. But as Norm mentioned, when it comes to putting "new" stuff on..... I've got to do that anyways, so its moot when it comes to either engine.... Yes, the 318 would probably get me up and running quicker, yes, I'd love to hear the flattie rumble, (I want both!!!! ) but I'm trying to make an informed decision BEFORE I go ahead and do one or the other... I've got to work on the brakes, suspension etc this summer, and I'd like to have an engine and drivetrain in to complete everything before going topside to the body and putting the body back on..... I am asking for help in forseeing possible problems and what to look out for in case I go the other way.... I know what to expect with the flattie.... and I'm trying to find out what I'd have to expect going the other route..... No matter what anyone says (and believe me, I heard everyone here about the flattie..... I still want it, and would like the power and reliability of the 318 for long trips..... (before you say anything Don, I know yours is reliable on long trips.... I'm mentioning it in the sense of not having to keep extra parts with me continually). I'm looking for cut n dried what do I have to do and/or watch out for IF I decide to go the V8 route..... Allan Quote
Allan Faust Posted April 13, 2007 Author Report Posted April 13, 2007 Allan;Choice is yours. My friend Bob Criswell sent me an e-mail yesterday. He is the guy I bought my engine from. A few years back he put a 318 in a P-15. Had everything bolted in and discovered he could not remove the distributor. Had to pull the engine and modify the firewall. I sure love my flattie! Don, Its things like that that I'd like to know..... Allan Quote
claybill Posted April 13, 2007 Report Posted April 13, 2007 ya' know....it doesnt matter what we all say. you're gonna put the v8 in anyway!!! so....go for it! bill Quote
Allan Faust Posted April 13, 2007 Author Report Posted April 13, 2007 ya' know....it doesnt matter what we all say. you're gonna put the v8 in anyway!!! so....go for it!bill Actually Bill, after what people have said here, I'm leaning more for the flattie.... the heart and soul, the sound, the "being different", the vintage look.... they all affect me (because its what I've wanted since the beginning), and now getting the dang thing on the road is gettin to me..... long distance trips..... etc.... you see other than a couple of friends with a rod with a 327 sbc and another with a ram charger with 2 spare engines (318 and 440 neither for sale) I have no references up here, and I'm too far away from any other refs..... I can't stand beside one to hear it growl/purr/sputter/fart, etc.... I can't ride in one to see how it does at speed and on a longer trip..... I need to ask the questions that help me make things up in my own mind, by weighing all the yeas and nays and trials and tribulations, because for me, who before this car never really touched anything this "thoroughly", its a learning process, and I've taken some knocks and had some success with a long way still to go, and the respect I have for people on this site to give me an unbiased opinion on what they think has helped me a lot to date, and in future too..... Allan Quote
Jeff.P_46 Posted April 13, 2007 Report Posted April 13, 2007 I really don't see what the problem is....just get another car, one to put the V8 in. Quote
blueskies Posted April 13, 2007 Report Posted April 13, 2007 I can't stand beside one to hear it growl/purr/sputter/fart, etc.... I can't ride in one to see how it does at speed and on a longer trip..... Allan Best I can do for ya... Go for a ride in my '50 with a click... As for reliability on the road, I'm not sure why a fresh flatty would be any less reliable than the V8. And, most of the parts that could go bad on the road, like a water pump or fuel pump, are available at any NAPA auto parts store. I've taken several long trips in my car and have never taken any spare parts with me. 'Course that time my brand new fuel pump crapped 70 miles from home I wished I'd had another one... But then again, I wouldn't have been able to change it on the side of the freeway anyway. Pete Quote
Allan Faust Posted April 13, 2007 Author Report Posted April 13, 2007 I really don't see what the problem is....just get another car, one to put the V8 in. Ya I know.... there is a 48 Hudson that would only be good for a shell nearby that the 318 would fit in as well..... (that option wasn't overlooked either) Allan Quote
Allan Faust Posted April 13, 2007 Author Report Posted April 13, 2007 Pete, you are right about the parts goin' bad, I guess my buddy just scared me.... and anyways, your car is one that I look to as an example (since I have a 50 as well) and as a reference.... I've already got the pistons, valves on the way or here and the 318 is not a guarantee at the moment.... so we'll see what'll happen. I need you guys to keep me level headed so as not to go the "quick" route every so often just to get it on the road.... Allan Quote
Don Coatney Posted April 14, 2007 Report Posted April 14, 2007 Ya I know.... there is a 48 Hudson that would only be good for a shell nearby that the 318 would fit in as well..... (that option wasn't overlooked either)Allan Allan; To replace a Hudson flathead with any V-8 is border line criminal. Pictured is the built Hudson engine my friend Mark Hudson installed in his black pictured Hudson. Quote
Allan Faust Posted April 14, 2007 Author Report Posted April 14, 2007 Allan;To replace a Hudson flathead with any V-8 is border line criminal. Pictured is the built Hudson engine my friend Mark Hudson installed in his black pictured Hudson. Don, It may be borderline criminal, however, after seeing the car up close years ago, most people would probably not even try to save the car, let alone the motor.... and it hasn't moved since..... it is what I would qualify as a basket case, and I doubt that the motor can be saved either...... Allan Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted April 14, 2007 Report Posted April 14, 2007 Replied per your request E-mail.. Don C. I saw a nice 308 twin carbed Hudson in Charlotte...still original..very nice...saw a Mopar powered one with 440 also...flat out the dominate one but not everyone's cup of tea. The swap meet was so so for old mopar parts..passed on a lot of nice e-bay items...just pounding the surface for what I needed. If you are dealing with Restoration Specialties...I suggest that you get a sample and mail to them with quanities needed. I went by the book, got there and found it not quite so...if I indeed not had a sample with me..I would have been very upset on what I recieved. There were two guys running around getting the quanties I needed for the samples provided..still in two cases I had to go with the generic cut to length universal clip...it is a very nice clip with lots of uses..don't be afraid to use this one folks. This is the first show in many years that I actually took the time to see some of the cars on display..my bud from Charleston, (red Tiger I did) came up to meet with me..boys them prices are UP there...some very nice cars...not one Plymouth Suburban to my surprise..saw a 51 Plymouth Club Coupe..with flattie and triple carbs..I have seen this car on the internet before somewhere..was it here??? Could never locate the owner.. Quote
Don Coatney Posted April 14, 2007 Report Posted April 14, 2007 saw a 51 Plymouth Club Coupe..with flattie and triple carbs..I have seen this car on the internet before somewhere..was it here??? Could never locate the owner.. This the car Tim? Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted April 14, 2007 Report Posted April 14, 2007 Don..you be on the money for sure...cannot mistake that banjo on the oil filter cap...thought the stay dry plug cover were unique...went by three times trying to locate the dude... Quote
Don Coatney Posted April 14, 2007 Report Posted April 14, 2007 Don..you be on the money for sure...cannot mistake that banjo on the oil filter cap...thought the stay dry plug cover were unique...went by three times trying to locate the dude... Car belongs to Ron A known as bludyknuckles on this forum. He had a George Asche overdrive that Richie and I picked up when we went to Pennsylvania last year. Richie then drove to Rons stable to deliver it. Ron also drove that car to the Viva show in Vegas last year. Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted April 14, 2007 Report Posted April 14, 2007 I knew I had seen this car before and it is shame I could never find him at his car. That was a huge show...one of the largest ever. Even a chebbie guy was photographing it for ideas to use on his 50's chevy..so if you get back and read this BLOODY KNUCKLES..liked your car...sorry not to have met you. Quote
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