Washers on headbolts?

[jimwheeldon]

I found some grade 8 bolts for the head of my 218, but they are about 1/32'' longer than the stock ones. It seems it would be prudent to use a washer...it would solve the length problem plus it seems like the head of the new bolts are a bit smaller . I haven't checked what size yet. What do you guys think? Would it bother anything to add the washer? Let me know..Thanks-Jim

[greg g]

I used grade 8's with washers. It did not seem to cause any problems. Ran the motor that way for 2 years. I would suggest that you clean the threads in the block before installing the new bolts. You can do this with a bottle brush or you can use an old bolt as a thread chaser. If you have a dremel or a die grinder, you can cut a vertical notch or two along the threads. then run the bolt into and out of the hole with some solvent. The slots will give the gunk some place to go as it is dislodged. Do this in the same manner you would with a tap, couple turns in one turn out till it bottoms out, then back it out. Three improtant points when reinstalling the head. You need to follow the proper tightening sequence, do the sequence in increments to the torque spec is met, then retorque after a run up to temp. Also the manual calls for the new gasket to be installed dry, or wet depending on which manual you have..... I did mine dry, again no problem.

[mikemaker]

I've been using grade 8's with a washer for about 3 or so years. I put them on cuz' when I replaced my blown head gasket, I realized that I needed new head bolts and I did not really have the time to hunt down the correct head bolts. I picked them up at the local OSH. They have working fine for me.

[Norm's Coupe]

You can buy a whole set of head bolts that fit the Chevy 350 engine at the parts store for around $30. They are the correct size and also have the small ridge under the head of the bolt, just like your original head bolts do. Chevy does have two different sizes of head bolts for the 350 though. Just tell them the size you want, or take one of your old head bolts with and match it up to the right 350 head bolt. To me that's much better than using grade 8 hardware bolts and washers.

[Lou Earle]

when one installs an Aluminum head on the old flatties special hardened washers are always used.I would suggest u get some hardened washers- And I believe the head washers are thicker.

Lou

[jimwheeldon]

I tried the Chevy headbolt thing...but in my town they only sold them in a set and two of the 3 dozen bolts you get are the right size. $24.00 x 10 sets seemed like a poor solution. I'm sure if I dug around online I could have found a place that sold what I needed-but a combination of working too many hours and my impatience to work on the old flattie today (Sunday's my only day off) lead to the hope the 8 grade would suffice. Next winter I plan on ripping the motor down and doing a complete rebuid,mill the head, balance, pretty paint and all. But right now I'd like to get it running ,rolling and stopping so I could enjoy it a little this summer. And to also prioritize what needs the most attention and funds to make it right. That may seem like a haphazard way of doing things but I can't really afford to rebuild everything the way I'd like to . Thanks for the advice ,this forum has been great-I felt like I was flying in the dark before I found you guys!

[Norm's Coupe]

That sounds like a rip off to me too if you have to buy that many sets. However, I know you can buy them individually. I didn't buy them myself, I found mine at a Chrysler dealer (got all that was in the old stock). Ended up paying about $90 for the set, but that was before I found out about the 350 bolts. Others have bought them though without having to buy extras like you mentioned. You could try NAPA or one of the larger chains when you get ready to do a complete job.

[james curl]

They tell me that the main bearing cap bolts on four bolt main 350 Cheverolet are the same size bolt as our head bolts. I gave up on Cheverolet head bolts as I could not find anyone who would sell me only the long ones in each pre- packaged set. I used grade 8 bolts and hardened washers.

[greg g]

Find an automotive machine shop not a parts store, and have them order these for you. The 25 in the part number is the box count, I was able to buy 21 through my machine shop. As mentioned I believe they should be less than $1.00 ea, and they have the shoulder under the head like the stock ones. The second pic shows that they are nearly identical to the stock ones, I hair longer but no issues, the one on the left is the grade 8 with no shoulder and slightly shorter and a smaller head.

[Plymouthy Adams]

If you choose to use washers, I would look into the hardened ones from Chrysler for the 2.5 four cylinder engine...I have not looked to check fit but if they fit the bolt would be best washers to use as they are designed for this for purpose. Not sure but I think maybe the 3.0 used them also.

[David Mac]

Vintage power wagon has the head bolts you need. A bit pricey but you can buy what you need.

http://www.vintagepowerwagons.com/catalog/pdf/group1-engine.pdf

[PatS....]

Is there an issue at all with re-using stock head bolts that seem to be in good shape?

I have wire wheeled them to clean them and chased the threads in the block.

[Lou Earle]

Also most any old flathead ford supply like Joe smith in Atlanta or Denniscarpenter in NC would have the head bolt washers

[Normspeed]

Pat, I re-used mine. I've heard different opinions on it but all I can say is, I cleaned them up good on the wheel, chased the threads in the holes, used sealant where recommended, and every one torqued up and retorqued to 70 ft lbs with no problems.

[Plymouthy Adams]

The threads are x amout per inch..lots of books will have you use a thread gauge to check to see if they are stretched..also a flot edge can show signs of stretching by the concave surface of the threads..if either conditions is evident on your bolts..do not use..the small cost of new will be a wise investment. ARP is not the only perople selling grade 8 bolts..

[Jim Saraceno]

I bought a set of head bolts from:

http://headbolts.com/mopar-l6-fastener.html

$37 for a set of 23. They appear to be those same Chevy bolts as they look like they are about 1/16" longer than the originals.

[jimwheeldon]

I didn't reuse my head bolts because they were very rusty..and they looked like they had actually lost some diameter to the corrosion. The no#1 bolt snapped off in the block on removal and after two weeks of fussing to get it out I was positive the old ones would never be trustworthy enough to take out the next time.

[Norm's Coupe]

I didn't reuse my head bolts because they were very rusty..and they looked like they had actually lost some diameter to the corrosion. The no#1 bolt snapped off in the block on removal and after two weeks of fussing to get it out I was positive the old ones would never be trustworthy enough to take out the next time.

Jim, that was a wise decision. When I was rebuilding I was going to reuse my old head bolts too. Cleaned them all up real nice. As I was cleaning them I found pits in them, that's when I decided to replace them all. Best safe than sorry later. I still have almost the whole set of the old ones in a bag. Don't know why I kept them, but..........

[grey beard]

Gents,

If you want a revelation, swipe a sharp, flat file across the gasket surface of your deck, while you're worrying about head bolts. What most older flathead blocks will reveal is that the parent metal of the block is pooched up around each head bolt from repeated torquings. On my last overhaul, I filed the entire deck flat - took about 30 minutes' time - and had 0.060" milled from the head. All my old head bolts looked fine, so I wire wheeled and chased the threads with a die and chased all the hole threads with a tap. Happy as a clam!

In a perfect world, we would all have our blocks boiled out, replace those nasty cam bearings, and have every machined surface - deck, manifold, etc., trued at the machine shop - while we pay them to also line-bore the main bearing webs and special line-bore each cylinder - but only after an utlrasound block test. Then our balanced crank flywheel and clutch components would all go together with our balanced reciprocating pieces - pistons, rods, etc. Sorta'' expensive, though . . .

[jimwheeldon]

I could have probably used my old bolts...just paranoid. The stud that did break off in the block was subjected to having dozens of nuts welded to it-(which all would eventually break off), 2 cans of PB blaster, a torch, and the infamous "EZ-out"..Why don't they just call it "Slim chance in hell"..Finally I ended up drilling it out and retapping it. I was very careful to get it centered,but it just wouldn't hold more than 45 lbs of torque and stripped out.

So now off comes the head and I'll helicoil the darn thing. this prompted me to want a new set of head bolts ...just in case some of the others were "stressed out".

[james curl]

Gray Beard,about $800.00 just for machine work not including balancing. Had all machined surfaces surfaced for flatness, top, bottom, both sides and both ends of block. Line bored, head milled .090" (too much), new cam bearings, bored .040", new valve guides, valve seats surfaced, new ss chevrolet 235 valves. Rods resized and bushed, another $150.00 to have crank thrust surfaces welded up and machined to correct dimensions and crank turned .020" under. $180.00 to Damper Doctor to rebuild damper, had to return for correct indexing, no charge for that. $850.00 for parts, oil pump, water pump, fuel pump, pistons and pins, timing chain and sprockets, valve guides and valves, spark plugs, spark plug wires, vacuum advance rebuilt, new points, cond, rotor, cap, coil, flywheel surfaced, pressure plate rebuilt ,clutch disc relined, starter and generator rebuilt, two carburetor kits, a overhaul gasket set, and the list goes on and on. I could have had a real good SBC for a lot less.

[blueskies]

I could have had a real good SBC for a lot less.

But it wouldn't have been nearly as cool...

I have more into my engine than I care to admit...

Pete

[martybose]

(SNIP)

I have more into my engine than I care to admit...

Pete

I don't even want to think about going back to figure out how much I have in mine!

Marty

[blueskies]

I don't even want to think about going back to figure out how much I have in mine!

Marty

Marty-

Unfortunately, I kept a very careful Excell spreadsheet record of every dime I spent on my entire project... but I try not to open the file and my memory fades rather quickly...

I have several high dollar parts on my engine, the NOS crank, and EDGY head among them, which just about doubled the necessary cost...

Pete

[DutchEdwin]

Find an automotive machine shop not a parts store, and have them order these for you. The 25 in the part number is the box count, I was able to buy 21 through my machine shop. As mentioned I believe they should be less than $1.00 ea, and they have the shoulder under the head like the stock ones. The second pic shows that they are nearly identical to the stock ones, I hair longer but no issues, the one on the left is the grade 8 with no shoulder and slightly shorter and a smaller head.

Can you tell me why there is a shoulder under the head of the bolt?

My opinion: It prevents the bolt of getting stuck inside the bore in the block. The gap between the block and the bolt is to narrow when there is no recess.

So the bolt cannot stretch when under stress of every stroke the engine makes. Then something has to give way. Or you simply cannot get the bolt loose any more after a while it has been sitting in the bore for years and years.