Joe Flanagan Posted February 26, 2011 Report Posted February 26, 2011 Has anyone had the problem of a new timing chain being too small? The one I got from Roberts will not let me slip the camshaft gear over its hub. It's short by about 1/8 of an inch, maybe less. I'm putting the two gears (also from Roberts) and the chain on as an assembly but it looks like there's not enough chain. Tried it with the old chain and everything fits fine. Old and new chain appear to be identical except the new one looks like its longer, which is weird. I think the old one is full of crud and stuff and is a bit stiffer than the new. Quote
Don Coatney Posted February 26, 2011 Report Posted February 26, 2011 Is the chain seated fully in both sprockets? Quote
Joe Flanagan Posted February 26, 2011 Author Report Posted February 26, 2011 Looks like it to me but I'll take a closer look when I go back at it tomorrow. Quote
Don Coatney Posted February 26, 2011 Report Posted February 26, 2011 I know it was a tight fit when I did mine but it has been so long I forgot how I did it. Quote
aero3113 Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 (edited) Joe,the way I did it was with the crank gear installed on the crank I put the chain on it and then put the chain on the cam gear then bolted it to the cam shaft. It took me a little while to get it to be TDC but if you mark the chain and gear with a sharpie each time you try to line it up you will get it to matych up sooner or later. Don't forget the cam gear will only fit on one way. You may also have to rotate the cam a little bit to get TDC to line up. Edited February 27, 2011 by aero3113 Quote
Joe Flanagan Posted February 27, 2011 Author Report Posted February 27, 2011 I did it the same way, Keith. Put the chain on the crankshaft gear first. Problem is, the chain is so tight, the camshaft sprocket will not slip over its hub. I also tried it with the crankshaft gear out on the shaft a bit so I could slip put both gears and chain on as an assembly all at once. When I try that, same thing. The camshaft gear will not slip over its hub. Didn't you get your chain and gears from Roberts? Quote
aero3113 Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 I got my chain and sprockets as a set from Andy B. Quote
ptwothree Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 Joe my t/c was a tight fit as well but fell together when aligned properly....it really is a matter of correctly phasing the crank and camshaft. Hang in there!! Quote
Joe Flanagan Posted February 27, 2011 Author Report Posted February 27, 2011 Maybe I'm a little bit misaligned. I've been told this in the past. Quote
greg g Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 (edited) Joe when I did mine we found out there were at least two different sets of gear and chains and they do not interchange. It might be a good idea to verify your components match via assuring the part numbers are correct for the "set". I have a chain here that did not work with my gears. The other chain allowed quick and easy reassembly. Sorry I can't give you more specifics as per part numbers, but I know the situation exists. Edited February 27, 2011 by greg g Quote
Joe Flanagan Posted February 27, 2011 Author Report Posted February 27, 2011 I'm going to give it one more shot here and if it doesn't work, I'll have to assume I've got the wrong chain. Quote
moose Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 While flipping through my Chrysler manual this morning, noticed that the chain for the 6 cyl had 48 teeth, and the 8 cyl had 47. Could this be the problem? or are they different widths? Or is there a big difference between the long and short blocks???? Quote
Joe Flanagan Posted February 27, 2011 Author Report Posted February 27, 2011 What I have determined is that the original gears are identical to the ones I got from Roberts. The chain must be the problem. Quote
Dodgeb4ya Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 While flipping through my Chrysler manual this morning, noticed that the chain for the 6 cyl had 48 teeth, and the 8 cyl had 47. Could this be the problem? or are they different widths? Or is there a big difference between the long and short blocks???? 323 Chrysler Straight 8 chains are wider than the 6 cyl flathead chains and difficult to find too! Quote
Dodgeb4ya Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 Try 3 threaded 1-2" long guide bolts/studs threaded into the cam shaft-then evenly work the chain and 2 gears onto their proper locations. Get the crank gear onto the crank 1st slightly ahead of the cam gear already on the 3 studs. This should help. The new chain and gears are kinda hard to assemble but once on all the way (the chain) it will seem tight but not really overly tight. It's worth a try. A screw driver in one of the cam threaded holes can help start the cam gear onto the cam hub too. Bob Quote
Joe Flanagan Posted February 27, 2011 Author Report Posted February 27, 2011 Thanks for the advice. The way it looks is that with this chain, the timing marks will never line up, even if I could get the thing to fit. If I get the chain and gears together, the marks are not going to be aligned. They'll either be a little offset in one direction or in the other. I'm going to call Roberts tomorrow and see if they might have shipped the wrong item. I've triple checked that the valves and piston are where they're supposed to be and the rotor too. Used a straight edge to lign up the marks. But the chain won't go on unless you offset the marks and even then it's too small and you can't get the camshaft gear on to its hub. Quote
Dodgeb4ya Posted February 28, 2011 Report Posted February 28, 2011 Joe, Don't worry what/where the valves are-just bring #1 piston up flush to block deck, to TDC. Cam gear only will bolt on cam in one position out of three possibilities- 3 threaded holes on the cam. Put the cam gear/with bolts on cam loosely and rotate cam to get the cam and crank dots in perfect alinement before even trying to get the chain on. Set the dots exactly across from each other-imagine a straight line through the center line of crank and cam ,this will set the crank @ TDC and the valves as I recall are completely closed on #6 cylinder (actually firing #6)- you don't even need to be concerned what position the valves/ or the distruibutor rotor are at this early stage of the re-assembly. Just get the gears and chain on- in proper alinement. Then rotate engine to #1 cylinder TDC with #1 cylinder cam lobes positioned away from -opposite of lifters. Now you can check/install oil pump position and distributor rotor position for 7 O'clock---- # 1 firing position. I kinda still think the chain is correct as long as it fits the gears 100% correctly. I just did a Chrysler 6 with the same tight chain issue-bought the 3 piece set from VPW. You will get'r figured out Joe! Bob Quote
Guest bewillie Posted February 28, 2011 Report Posted February 28, 2011 1 Install crank gear all the way 1 line your dots up 3 turn the crank just a little maybe 1/8" 4 Install chain and timing gear on crank gear 5 Install one bolt in timing sprocket loosel 6 turn the crank the other way which will tighen the chain and line the other two holes up 7 Install the other two bolts. I don't know what the torque on these bolts would be but would guess about 20 Quote
Dodgeb4ya Posted February 28, 2011 Report Posted February 28, 2011 1 Install crank gear all the way1 line your dots up 3 turn the crank just a little maybe 1/8" 4 Install chain and timing gear on crank gear 5 Install one bolt in timing sprocket loosel 6 turn the crank the other way which will tighen the chain and line the other two holes up 7 Install the other two bolts. I don't know what the torque on these bolts would be but would guess about 20 Good suggestion! Quote
Dodgeb4ya Posted February 28, 2011 Report Posted February 28, 2011 I didn't have any trouble getting this chain on! Quote
Joe Flanagan Posted February 28, 2011 Author Report Posted February 28, 2011 But you might have had trouble KEEPING it on. On step 3 above, where it says turn the crank just a little, does it matter which way? Quote
aero3113 Posted February 28, 2011 Report Posted February 28, 2011 WoW ,that chain is loose,how was the timing on that engine? Quote
Dodgeb4ya Posted February 28, 2011 Report Posted February 28, 2011 WoW ,that chain is loose,how was the timing on that engine? Amazingly it really ran smooth, but a little low on the power side because of the Chain slop. Quote
Dodgeb4ya Posted February 28, 2011 Report Posted February 28, 2011 But you might have had trouble KEEPING it on.On step 3 above, where it says turn the crank just a little, does it matter which way? Joe, I think the timing cover kept the chain on! Quote
Joe Flanagan Posted February 28, 2011 Author Report Posted February 28, 2011 Thanks to the technique suggested by Suesbilly I got the chain on with the timing marks aligned. It was embarrassingly simple. One thing I didn't understand was that as you turn the gears, the timing marks will actually move toward each other. It is a tight fit, that's for sure, and it makes me appreciate how loose my old chain was. The cam gear pulled right in and the marks lined up perfectly. I actually left work early today because I was so anxious to try this. Dodgeb4ya recommended a similar technique. Thanks to all. Quote
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