OT: Tried her on the freeway for the first time today...

[JoelOkie]

Cuz the car you were passing was going slower......and the car coming at you was coming slower.....

The safe distances on the passing lanes on the roads were initially designed and configured to be used at 65 miles an hour. I'm assuming they knew what they were doing when they laid it out to be used at 65, so it would ALREADY be safe at that speed is what I was getting at. If you are driving slower, say 55, you are logically out of your own lane and in the opposing traffics lane longer, which doesn't seem any safer to me. Edited September 8, 2010 by JoelOkie

[TodFitch]

The safe distances on the passing lanes on the roads were initially designed and configured to be used at 65 miles an hour. I'm assuming they knew what they were doing when they laid it out to be used at 65, so it would ALREADY be safe at that speed is what I was getting at. If you are driving slower, say 55, you are logically out of your own lane and in the opposing traffics lane longer, which doesn't seem any safer to me.

Not quite true. There are several pages in the 1940s highway design reference books I have. Basically the "tangent" (straight sections) with adequate sight distance for passing were based on the design speed of the road and the assumed performance of the average vehicle. Also, prior to multiple lane highways the had a goal of having safe passing areas frequent enough that drivers waiting to pass would not become too impatient.

Which brings to mind that most people don't know how to pass nowadays. You are supposed to be accelerating the whole time you are in the lane of opposing traffic. Of course a cop could probably give you a ticket for speeding. Here is a section from American Highway Practice first published in 1928 with the copy I have copyright 1942:

It is recognized that save passing distances usually cannot be provided everywhere, on account of topographic limitations. Not every horizontal nor every vertical curve must be designed for safe-passing sights, but such sights should be encountered frequently, particularly to encourage safe driving. Passing-sight sections should succeed each other, preferably at intervals not exceeding a mile and never at intervals exceeding about two miles. The committee assumed that on two-lane highways the overtaken vehicle was traveling at a uniform speed and must be followed by the passing vehicle at that speed when sight distance is unsafe for passing. When the road opens to view safe passing sight, the driver needs perception time to size up the situation, watch opposing traffic, and make a decision. He is assumed to pass by accelerating during the entire operation. It is assumed that opposing traffic appears at the instant the passing maneuver begins, and that it arrives alongside the passing vehicle just as soon as the passing maneuver is completed. These assumptions do not cover all methods of passing but permit a satisfactory determination of the sight distances required for safe passing.

Note the part about "assumed to pass by accelerating during the entire operation".

By the way, yesterday we followed a string of cars for maybe 1/2 hour that were unable to get around a slow driver. That driver passed, by my count 10 places marked for slower vehicles to pull out. Amazing that my 1933 Plymouth was not the slowest car on the road. So much for having passing sight distances every mile or two and clueless drivers who will not pull over when holding up traffic.

[fedoragent]

Is there a current picture of this spot available???

I can go and take one if you'd like.

FG.

[dezeldoc]

Not quite true. There are several pages in the 1940s highway design reference books I have. Basically the "tangent" (straight sections) with adequate sight distance for passing were based on the design speed of the road and the assumed performance of the average vehicle. Also, prior to multiple lane highways the had a goal of having safe passing areas frequent enough that drivers waiting to pass would not become too impatient.

Which brings to mind that most people don't know how to pass nowadays. You are supposed to be accelerating the whole time you are in the lane of opposing traffic. Of course a cop could probably give you a ticket for speeding. Here is a section from American Highway Practice first published in 1928 with the copy I have copyright 1942:

Note the part about "assumed to pass by accelerating during the entire operation".

By the way, yesterday we followed a string of cars for maybe 1/2 hour that were unable to get around a slow driver. That driver passed, by my count 10 places marked for slower vehicles to pull out. Amazing that my 1933 Plymouth was not the slowest car on the road. So much for having passing sight distances every mile or two and clueless drivers who will not pull over when holding up traffic.

Yep that is how we were taught to pass in driver ed back in the day, got a ticket one time for doing just that, cop said can't go over speed limit. explained to him i passed him going 55 and he was going 40 (speed limit was 55) passed him in about 3 car lengths, cop going the opposite way said he could tell i was going faster than that by how quick i went around him, he had no clue how slow the guy was going. stupid cop almost had 3 cars rear end him when he pulled out in front of them to hang a u to come get me. good thing the judge saw it my way! i still pass the way i was taught i will be damed if i am going to take a mile to go around someone.

[JoelOkie]

If you are going down the road and come up behind a car doing 40 miles an hour it takes you longer to pass that car at 55 than if you are passing at 65. Thus you are out of your own lane of traffic for a longer period of time. That's pretty simple guys.

[TodFitch]

If you are going down the road and come up behind a car doing 40 miles an hour it takes you longer to pass that car at 55 than if you are passing at 65. Thus you are out of your own lane of traffic for a longer period of time. That's pretty simple guys.

No. Because I won't be doing 55 or 65 or whatever the posted limit is. I will have my "pedal to the metal" for the entire time that I am in the lane of opposing traffic. So, given reasonable performance from the car, I won't be going "the limit" when I pull back into my lane I may and probably will be doing a lot over the limit. Once back in the right lane I immediately slow down to the speed limit.

There used to be an expression about "passing gear": Basically you may have to downshift out of overdrive or whatever gear you are in into the gear that gives you the best acceleration for the speed range you are in.

If you are on a multiple lane road then you can and should pass by simply waiting for the next lane to the left to be open, pulling into that lane and then accelerate to the speed limit. If the car you are passing is only going a mile or two below the limit it may take you a long time and distance to pass. That is all fine and dandy on the Interstate or other multiple lane highway. It is not how you should pass on a two lane road but all to often that is how I see people nowadays try it.

[JoelOkie]

It's really not a complicated thing...why make it out to be? You definately will be going by the car in front of you faster if you are ALREADY going faster, right? You will need to accelerate LESS if you are already going 65, as opposed to 55, right? I mean I realize some of you guys are real brains when it comes to figuring out some things, but no offense to anyone, this doesn't take much figuring out. Joel

[TodFitch]

It's really not a complicated thing...why make it out to be? You definately will be going by the car in front of you faster if you are ALREADY going faster, right? You will need to accelerate LESS if you are already going 65, as opposed to 55, right? I mean I realize some of you guys are real brains when it comes to figuring out some things, but no offense to anyone, this doesn't take much figuring out. Joel

Perhaps I should scan the several pages of equations and tables in the manual I quoted below but here is a quick summary from that book regarding passing a car going 10 MPH less than the "design speed" of the road giving how much space is needed in the design:

Design -> Distance

30 MPH -> 600 feet.

40 MPH -> 1,100 feet

50 MPH -> 1,600 feet

60 MPH -> 2,300 feet

70 MPH -> 3,200 feet

Notice that the distance increases as the speed increases?

[Don Coatney]

Once back in the right lane I immediately slow down to the speed limit.

I once got a speeding ticket after passing a car on a 2 lane road because I did not slow back down to the legal limit for a mile or so after the pass was complete.

It was too much fun going fast in those days. It is still fun going fast in these days but I dont do it as often now as I did then.

[53_Suburban]

I once got a speeding ticket after passing a car on a 2 lane road because I did not slow back down to the legal limit for a mile or so after the pass was complete.

It was too much fun going fast in those days. It is still fun going fast in these days but I dont do it as often now as I did then.

I remember when driving was fun. Still is occasionally but not like it was.

[JoelOkie]

Perhaps I should scan the several pages of equations and tables in the manual I quoted below but here is a quick summary from that book regarding passing a car going 10 MPH less than the "design speed" of the road giving how much space is needed in the design:

Design -> Distance

30 MPH -> 600 feet.

40 MPH -> 1,100 feet

50 MPH -> 1,600 feet

60 MPH -> 2,300 feet

70 MPH -> 3,200 feet

Notice that the distance increases as the speed increases?

This is interesting, Tod, but pertaining to something different than what I stated, which is namely you will pass a car going 40 faster while doing 65 than if you are doing 55. I am not sure how that fact can be disputed, but whatever, at this point it doesn't seem like much to argue about. Everyone just be sure and be carefull when you are passing another car. Joel

[TodFitch]

This is interesting, Tod, but pertaining to something different than what I stated, which is namely you will pass a car going 40 faster while doing 65 than if you are doing 55. I am not sure how that fact can be disputed, but whatever, at this point it doesn't seem like much to argue about. Everyone just be sure and be carefull when you are passing another car. Joel

One last time and then I'll give up. Consider the two scenarios below:

1. You are traveling the speed limit on a 55MPH two lane road when you come up behind a car doing 40MPH. You follow that car at a safe distance going 40MPH until it is clear and then you make your passing maneuver. You pass as follows: Foot to the floor, you are looking ahead for on coming traffic and in the mirror(s) to see if you are safely far enough ahead of the slow car to finish the passing maneuver. When you are safely ahead, you pull back into the right lane and check your speedometer and notice that you are going 70MPH so you slow down to the speed limit.

2. You are traveling the speed limit on a 65MPH two lane road when you come up behind a car doing 40MPH. You follow that car at a safe distance going 40MPH until it is clear and then you make your passing maneuver. You pass as follows: Foot to the floor, you are looking ahead for on coming traffic and in the mirror(s) to see if you are safely far enough ahead of the slow car to finish the passing maneuver. When you are safely ahead, you pull back into the right lane and check your speedometer and notice that you are going 70MPH so you slow down to the speed limit.

Aside from the speed limit sign you notice a while back, how are those two scenarios different? The only real difference is that on a 65MPH road you will need a longer sight distance because any on coming traffic will be moving faster.

[dezeldoc]

Tod, when ya have 600+hp to the rear wheels it will do it in a couple of car lengths!

[JoelOkie]

One last time and then I'll give up. Consider the two scenarios below:

1. You are traveling the speed limit on a 55MPH two lane road when you come up behind a car doing 40MPH. You follow that car at a safe distance going 40MPH until it is clear and then you make your passing maneuver. You pass as follows: Foot to the floor, you are looking ahead for on coming traffic and in the mirror(s) to see if you are safely far enough ahead of the slow car to finish the passing maneuver. When you are safely ahead, you pull back into the right lane and check your speedometer and notice that you are going 70MPH so you slow down to the speed limit.

2. You are traveling the speed limit on a 65MPH two lane road when you come up behind a car doing 40MPH. You follow that car at a safe distance going 40MPH until it is clear and then you make your passing maneuver. You pass as follows: Foot to the floor, you are looking ahead for on coming traffic and in the mirror(s) to see if you are safely far enough ahead of the slow car to finish the passing maneuver. When you are safely ahead, you pull back into the right lane and check your speedometer and notice that you are going 70MPH so you slow down to the speed limit.

Aside from the speed limit sign you notice a while back, how are those two scenarios different? The only real difference is that on a 65MPH road you will need a longer sight distance because any on coming traffic will be moving faster.

Tod, No scenerios, or variables, or any other situations were ever mentioned...simply the fact that you are certainly moving faster at, and will pass at 65 quicker than 55. There was no mention of following a car at any speed, or any of that other stuff. If you have slowed down behind another car, then yes, you are logically going the speed that car is going, and will start your pass from there. That is not a question of it being faster passing at 65 than 55, (which is exactly what I stated), but passing a car from the speed from which it is traveling.

You swarmed me after that initial thing were Greg stated that it was safer at 55 than 65 because "you are going slower, the car you are meeting is going slower, and the car you are passing is going slower" well that was actually not even correct, as if the car you are passing is going 40, it is not going ANY slower if the speed limit is 55, rather than 65, but that seeming obvious, I didn't even bother to point that out.

Then when I mentioned the roads were already set up for 65 mph you came back with some highway stats from the early 1940's, and cars capabilities back then. ect. Well we were talking about the 70's when the national speed limit was set back to 55, and the passing lanes on roads that had 65 mph speed limits WERE configured and set up to be safely passing at that speed. I know because I have a brother-in-law that just spent 36 years with the highway dept, and when the roads are improved, changed, or upgraded the passing lanes are always reassesed and set accordingly. The highways that were built in the 40's had been widened, straightened, and dangerous places such as curves, blind spots, and intersections had already been either fixed, or the speed limits lowered through those areas by the 70's. The cars in the 70's could, and did run 65 mph, no problem.

I did not put forth or address any scenerio other than you come up behind a car doing 40 and you move to the left lane and pass it, and, unless they have changed the Law of Physics, you will absolutely pass faster, (thus be in the opposing lane of traffic a shorter amount of time), quicker at 65 than at 55. If you know any reason why that is not so please give me a mathematical equation where that doesn't work, and we can go from there.

I don't appreciate the "give it one last time then give up.." comment. You are not schooling me about anything Sir. I am not stupid, and have been driving nearly 40 years now without even 1 accident, or a traffic ticket, and know how to pass another car already. You may feel you have been long suffering in your explainations, but they are in all fact getting further and further astray of addressing what I had actually said to begin with.

Edited September 10, 2010 by JoelOkie
remain civil

[55 Fargo]

Back in around the late 60s early 70s, the Trans Canada Hwy from Winnipeg to the Ontario Border was twinned quite of the distance about 110 miles.

The posted speed limit was 70 mph ( we were not in metric yet).

My Dad had a 68 Olds Vista Cruiser with a 400 Rocket engine, he would cruise this hwy to the lake at 75 mph on a regular basis.

The entire family went in this very car to California in 1973, before the nationwide 55 mph of 1974 or 1975. My Dad was cruisin at 70 mph or better for most of that trip, a car like this could cruise at 80 mph all day long, without harm, I am sure.

Anybody want to see a typical highway around 1950, watch the you tube video, with the 48 Chrysler Convertable, highways were narrow, winding, and with blind intersections.

I still travel a lot of single lane highways out here, if I approach a slower moving car say doing 50 mph, I do not pass at say 55 mph, I pass at probably 65 to 70 mph, to be able to pass and get around slower vehicle quicker, and to avoid any oncoming vehicles.

Once I am in the lane again I adjust my speed which is usally at 60 -65 mph on the single lane highways. On multiple lane highways usually cruise at 65 to 70 mph, as our speed limits are not 75 mph like a lot of Interstate highways..........

[Ernie Baily]

Hello Everyone,

I've had my 48 Plymouth for over 25 years and had a 53 Ply overdrive trans in it for over 20years, when I purchased it, it came out of a car in a junkyard. All I did was scrape all the old grease and crud off, pressure washed it and painted silver and put it in. The only thing I did was check the gear oil to make sure it was full and it has been working just fine ever since. I learned that you use a Ply overdrive in a Ply car and they shoud be the same length. Dodge, Desoto and Chrysler were longer. My stock driveshaft fit right in with no problem. I'm running the stock rearend that has never been touched since new and cruises about 60-65mph all day long.

[fedoragent]

Hello Everyone,

I've had my 48 Plymouth for over 25 years and had a 53 Ply overdrive trans in it for over 20years, when I purchased it, it came out of a car in a junkyard. All I did was scrape all the old grease and crud off, pressure washed it and painted silver and put it in. The only thing I did was check the gear oil to make sure it was full and it has been working just fine ever since. I learned that you use a Ply overdrive in a Ply car and they shoud be the same length. Dodge, Desoto and Chrysler were longer. My stock driveshaft fit right in with no problem. I'm running the stock rearend that has never been touched since new and cruises about 60-65mph all day long.

That is good and encouraging to know.

FG.