The last straw

[rockable]

Well, I've been working on my '41 P12 almost every spare moment since I got it back in April. I've rebuilt the suspension completely, installed a dual master cylinder and disc brakes, new wheels and tires and countles other odds and ends. The original plan was to get it running and drive it with the flathead until I finished another project. At that point, I would do a frame off restoration on it and build it into a restomod.

I've spent a lot of time just getting and keeping the darn thing running. Even though I've taken it on several short trips, I just never trusted it to make a 20 mile run. Last week, it overheated and I found out my radiator was kaput. This weekend the starter crapped out as I was trying to move it out of my shop. That's it. I'm done with messing with the old drivetrain and the 6 volt electrics.

I'm pulling the front end off today and starting the rewiring process while I collect a SB Mopar and running gear. The plan is to install that and then, hopefully, have a reliable to drive P12. The thing that pains me about this is that I swore I would not have two disassembled cars in my shop at one time and now I will have. Nothing goes as planned.

[Plymouthy Adams]

two disassembled cars is only space consuming but merely not more than that..the fact of the matter, as we hit snags trying to get a part here or there for the one car, you have the other car to fall back on and work a bit till you overcome the logistics on the first..and beside, driving these cars is just a by product of the real fun, tearing it down and putting it back the way you want it...for smooth relaibility do not overlook the Dakota V6..seems everyone thinks if it has a V engine it has to be maxxed out on power...

[JoelOkie]

Sounds like you are going to have a nice car when you get done. Maybe you can help someone else with some parts off the old drivetrain in the process. Joel

[rockable]

If anyone is interested in drive train parts, contact me. I'm in NC. The engine runs nice and quiet and does not smoke.

[rockable]

I'm serious this time. Today I removed the front end and the engine/tranny. I'm committed at this point.

Edited July 5, 2010 by rockable

[Dan Babb]

Looks good. You'll probably have yours back on the road long before me. I really envy that nice big shop and cool lift.

[rockable]

So far, I did all of this work with jackstands and a creeper. I'm thinking most of it will be that way.

You can do it, Dan!!

[faucet47custom]

This is where I am completely undecided on my project. I have most of the disassembly done but still have shell-motor-frame together. There is a place nearby that I can source a good SB 318/360 for the dodge but I also like the idea of the flattie. I would hate to finish the project and have a motor that there is always a question about what's gonna mess up next, it hasn't been on the road in 25 years. Just my thoughts on what you're dealing with.

[martybose]

It strikes me that (1) the bad radiator is going to be replaced no matter which motor you run, and (2) what makes you think a late model 12V starter is inherently more reliable than a 60 year old 6V?? There is a huge market in replacement starters that makes the latter unlikely.

So far you haven't done anything that makes me think a late model V-8 would be more reliable. More powerful, sure, but that's it!

Marty

[Andydodge]

Rockable.......don't suppose you have a picture of the sheetmetal on your Plymouth thats behind the grille stampings.........my P11 when it was "restored" was done in a roughshod manner in some areas and there is some sheetmetal bracing or something missing behind the grille........at present when you open the hood on mine there is the small sheetmetal piece that the hood latch bolts onto and thats all........the piece that the horns hang from is missing which I can live without anyway but more importantly there should be some sort of sheetmetal bracing piece below that, ie there is the actual grille sheetmetal stamping that the stainless piece clip onto but is there some sort of bracing there down around where the front swap bar goes across in front of the chassis........on mine the previous owner/restorer has made up a piece of steel strip, 3/16" x 2" bolted to the front chassis crossmember and bent it up and attached it to a spot in the centre behind the grille bars........its not original, well it doesn't look original and doesn't really support it well.........as you have the front sheetmetal off your car is there any chance you could take a couple of pics of what should be there?........1941 Plymouths are very rare here in Oz........I don't know of any others within 500miles.........lol..........thanks, andyd

[louie the fly]

faucet47custom, I had a 37 Plymouth sedan that I went down the road of front end swap, 318/904, changed diff, chopped top, etc. Stereotypical street rod you could say (cept it wasn't a Ford). In my current "next life" I am going with the original engine - hotted up as much as I can with period style parts, original front end with a disc conversion (& maybe a nice rack), front end overhaul & shocker relocation, original box, & maybe change the diff to a later model leaf spring Chrysler product if I can be bothered. I figured I could do more in less time, get it driving and keep working on it, and I'm right into old school customs. Me, I'd stick with the flathead. Everyone has a V8 (& I have 2).

Louie

[rockable]

1. My plan all along was to eventually change the driveline out. I just wasn't planning on doing it now. I finally got tired of throwing time and money at a stuff that needed to be completely overhauled.

2. The new aluminum radiators clog very easily and are more restrictive in their flow paths. The are not easily cleaned and I wasn't sure I could get all the crap out the original engine without a lot more work. I was going to try until the starter motor gave up the ghost.

3. The 6V positive ground system is original. All the fabric is disintegrating and lots of the ground connections are not good. I had already spent a bunch of time working to get them better but 6V starters and 6V lights just aren't as good as 12V. They aren't. So, I will now rewire the car for 12V positive ground and will have a more reliable electrical system. One that won't scare me every time I see a wisp of smoke and one that won't deter me from driving long distances.

4. The new engine and driveline will be in a lot better shape than the old one because they will be rebuilt and as new. The original driveline would be ok if that were done to it but that was not my plan.

5. Andy, I'm happy to shoot you some pics. Give me a little time. I'm out of town this weekend and it may be the next weekend before I can get it done.

Rock

[P-12 Tommy]

Rockable.......don't suppose you have a picture of the sheetmetal on your Plymouth thats behind the grille stampings.........my P11 when it was "restored" was done in a roughshod manner in some areas and there is some sheetmetal bracing or something missing behind the grille........at present when you open the hood on mine there is the small sheetmetal piece that the hood latch bolts onto and thats all........the piece that the horns hang from is missing which I can live without anyway but more importantly there should be some sort of sheetmetal bracing piece below that, ie there is the actual grille sheetmetal stamping that the stainless piece clip onto but is there some sort of bracing there down around where the front swap bar goes across in front of the chassis........on mine the previous owner/restorer has made up a piece of steel strip, 3/16" x 2" bolted to the front chassis crossmember and bent it up and attached it to a spot in the centre behind the grille bars........its not original, well it doesn't look original and doesn't really support it well.........as you have the front sheetmetal off your car is there any chance you could take a couple of pics of what should be there?........1941 Plymouths are very rare here in Oz........I don't know of any others within 500miles.........lol..........thanks, andyd

That's funny , I'm missing the same brace behind the grill.

Thanks, Tom

[faucet47custom]

What I have been considering is the cost/result of both paths. I know that a mopar v8 will be easier to rebuild and find parts for now and in the future. I also know there is a flattie renaissance going on and parts will "hopefully" be available but at what cost. I read all the time of things that where available in the 60's and 70's and if you search enough you can find them, but at what cost. Ebay isn't a discount store. Also, time for me is very valuable and although I do really like the idea of keeping the flathead for the cool factor, how much time and extra money is going to be involved with rebuilding and finding parts? I am at the fork in the road of my project and can't make up my mind.

[Andydodge]

As someone who has both a V8 & flathead 6 powered Mopars there are good points re both, however if your desire is to be able to use it as an everyday driver and are able to do the work, ie modifications yourself then in the long run it maybe better to swap to late model, V8 power, but do if properly so that if need be the original running gear can be reinstalled ......I intend to keep the 6 in the 41 Plymouth but update the brakes/suspension/gearbox so that I don't have to worry about 70yr old brakes etc and the gearbox will allow it to cruise without reving its guts out........but its YOUR car and its your choice, whatever you feel comfortable with should be the final consideration..........main thing is that it gets used............andyd

[Andydodge]

Rock........looks like you have gained 2 new best friends in me and Tom........am happy to wait, thanks and regards, andyd

[JoelOkie]

Rock........looks like you have gained 2 new best friends in me and Tom........am happy to wait, thanks and regards, andyd

Might want to make that 3 Joel

[gillettealvin]

At least I hope it went. Thanks. GA

[Rodney Bullock]

It strikes me that (1) the bad radiator is going to be replaced no matter which motor you run, and (2) what makes you think a late model 12V starter is inherently more reliable than a 60 year old 6V?? There is a huge market in replacement starters that makes the latter unlikely.

So far you haven't done anything that makes me think a late model V-8 would be more reliable. More powerful, sure, but that's it!

Marty

Marty makes a good point. The things you need to replace need replacing. I would not drive 20 miles from home with a 70 year old 6 volt system either. I have a new found respect for the street rod. I can go into a store and buy most things it needs. I like antiques as well. I like driving whisper quiet motors sometimes. The different technologies make the hobby interesting. Your 41 mopar is just that, it is what it is. I learned the 6 volt system on a 41...Studebaker. I knew from the start every thing needed to be touched(as we call it) I have driven the car 1,000's of miles since. My 40 Plymouth the same thing. I don't you can nor is it wise to bandaid these cars to just drive and enjoy, modern era cars which are throw=aways can do this with ease. These cars need care and human attetion:) mopar drive train sounds good 340 or 360 priceless.

[rockable]

Andy, do these pictures show what you were interested in?

[P-12 Tommy]

Rock, What we're talking about is almost at the bottom of the grill shell. There is a place where a brace would attach to it.

Tom

[rockable]

Are you talking about underneath the piece that is shown in picture 2? i.e. underneath the sheet metal stamping with the hole in it for the crank?

[P-12 Tommy]

Yep. That's it!

Tom

[Andydodge]

Rock, many thanks for the pics, the weird thing is that my car is missing that lower sheetmetal triangular piece shown in pic #2 that has the hole where the crank handle goes thru yet I thought that there must be a vertical0 piece that gives some more support to the general sheetmetal when the hood is closed onto the latch........there doesn't seem to be enough support there........I have a spare lower triangular sheetmetal piece from a 40 Dodge that I think I could adapt or use as a pattern to scratch build something........am gunna keep your pics as reference material.....thanks.......andyd

[rockable]

That's all there is, guys. There is no piece below that pan in the bottom. The pan gives it lateral support.