Floor board restoration question

[47heaven]

Today, a friend of mine, who is going to do the patch work on my floor board, really looked things over and said that it was a little worse than he first thought. He was saying that he was afraid that it was a project that might open a can of worms. Most of the rust damage is in the front section, but there is some in the back, as well. He thought that it was strange that a car that has been in Arizona all of it's life would have that much floor rot. Anyway, a friend of his came by and he told us that instead of trying patch up the holes to just cover the floor board with Por 15 and then with fiberglass sheets. He said that this is the way some people do it. Anyone ever heard of this?

Also, what was the name of that place that makes new floor boards for our cars?

[55 Fargo]

To be honest a lot of these cars have rust along the toe kick areas, rockers where the floor supports join in,the floors in the trunk. How is your front cowl to the frame supports are they good and strong, what about the body mount supports to the frame itself, are they intact, if so it may not be all that bad.

I once had a guy come out and give me an estimate for the repairs, he looked at the job, took pictures made negative comments and left, he then sent me a quote for $3500.00 to do the job, which incidently he was going to take 3 months to do the job, in his spare time. You know where I told him to go, don't you. I bought a welder, learned to weld a bit, a friend gave me lots of 18 gauge tin, and I went to work, I did not have a fancy plasma cutter, just an angle grinder with cut off wheels a jig saw, a sawsall, tin snips of various types and lots of encouragement form this forum and it's members and some help form my friends. If you like I can send you some pics of my floors, they aren't works of art, but sturdy, and durable. Good luck, post some pics of your problem areas of your floors, I can guarantee they are no where near as bad as Robert Becks 56 Buick Convert in Hemmings Classic car magazine, his car had no floors left, even the trans hump was rotten, which doesn't usually happen, this car was a total rust bucket, he brought it back to life, and now his car is being featured for a few months on his restoration..................Fred

[Allan Faust]

For floor pans, I'll dig up the names and addys of the ones I have and post them tomorrow. As for the friend of yours..... do you want to do it right, or just get it done???? I'm one that although I'm not restoring to original specs, I'm not going to do a botch job just to get something done.... which in my opinion is what your friend is suggesting.... Look at my photobucket site under the floor, interior (and others) sub folders, and you'll see what a botched job looks like (while I'm tearing it out). I've seen other people use rivets, etc, (rockwood) and it looks good... but I spent days tearing out rivets, piled up sheet metal, fiberglass, square tubing (in the place of a body bracket), inches of UnderCoatney (couldn't resist Don, had to bring it back) and even a household aluminum siding rocker panel..... that whole mess was destroying the floor, rockers, etc worse than the original horsehair under carpet original matting......

In my opinion, do it right once, rather than hurry through and redo it in a few years.... spending both times.....

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v395/joker77/

Allan

[55 Fargo]

Here is a pic of the floor supports I made for my 48 Chrysler, It also eliminates the stock rocker, but for the outside of the car you can't tell the difference, this is very strong, much sronger that what was on there in the first place. I will also post a pic of my floors in side of the car.......Fred ps I have since cleaned up under here and will be spraying this are with rubberized rockerguard spray.both sides of this floor were roted out, I welded in new sheet metal, it was my very first attempt at this, welded in new metal, seam sealed, could have used filler and created a much smoother joint, but who sees it under the carpet, I still will be giving the entire floor another coat of black 100% rubberized undercoating, I did not use any rivets, all the welds were stitched into a solid weld, I did use screws to hold the sheet metal firmly in place and welded in the srew holes afterwards

[Don Coatney]

Darin;

I thought you just got your car back from the paint shop? Did you not know of the floorboard repairs until now?

[47heaven]

Don:

Yes, I knew about the floors, but we didn't think they were that bad; just a little patch work here and there. It may not be as bad as my friend says it is because he is known to jump to conclusions.

Rockwood:

The majority of the rust is mainly by the gas pedal and near the rockers on both sides in the front. There are a couple rusted supports that concern me. Again, when you have the equipment and facility to do some welding, it makes it a lot easier. Since I don't, I have to rely on those who do. I told my friend that I didn't care how sloppy it looked because like you said, "Who sees under the carpet anyway." As I was telling Don...there are a couple body mounts that are of concern. I just can't figure out how that car, being in Arizona, got such rotted a floor in sections.

Allan:

I already have a botched job done on my floor....it couldn't get any more botched. Though the fiberglass/Por 15 sounds like any easy fix, I would feel better if it's done right and so that no water gets in anymore. I also want to deaden as much sound as possible.

[1947PLEVY]

Heaven...

My floor boards are pretty bad also, but I plan on using old hoods for the metal. I have found that the older model plymouth arrow late 70's will work best. And as someone mentioned, alot of cutting discs and patience welding them in. Hopefully not too long before I start that project. The very last thing to do will be the paint job. I do have an extra parts car that I can use some of the floorboards from, but they have rust also, mainly around the door sills. but It just takes time and patience.

Take Care and God Bless Us All... John Ennis 47Plevy

[55 Fargo]

Post some pics , if you can of your problem areas. Then maybe we can suggest a repair metod......Fred

[Young Ed]

Funny John using old hoods for patches. I saved the roof off a 46 2dr sedan I parted to use in the floor of my 51.

Oh and I found some ball studs at napa that look like they would work quite easily for gas pedal studs. We bought a set to try in dads truck.

[Dennis Hemingway]

Here is the web site you ask for.

Dennis

http://www.plymouthdoctor.com/

[Plymouthy Adams]

Darin;

I thought you just got your car back from the paint shop? Did you not know of the floorboard repairs until now?

I beleive Darin asked long back about order of sequence in work to be accomplished..he got many answers...suprised to see it went to the painter prior to floor work being done..had thought it was accomplished myself...make sure the threshold is protected while working through the opening or your paint job has just gone south at an early part in its life.

As for the not being seen..that is true..make sure it is a water tight repair..because as you said you will not see it but wet carpet and padding will accelerate a small problem in a quick fashion.

[bob westphal]

Darin,

I have used some fiberglass to patch holes in the trunk of my car. It works well in areas that aren't structural supports. I was going to replace the spare well but I was tired after a month of installing the floor in the cab. So I just used several layers of glass instead. It works but isn't as pretty as replacement. I used stainless rivets to hold the new floor panels in place and then spot welded them. I used automotive caulking to seal all the seams on top and bottom sides of the floor. My floor doesn't look as nice as Rockwood's but it is there to stay for the next half century. I bought the sheetmetal at the local steel supply for about $40.

Bob

[47heaven]

I beleive Darin asked long back about order of sequence in work to be accomplished..he got many answers...suprised to see it went to the painter prior to floor work being done..had thought it was accomplished myself...make sure the threshold is protected while working through the opening or your paint job has just gone south at an early part in its life.

As for the not being seen..that is true..make sure it is a water tight repair..because as you said you will not see it but wet carpet and padding will accelerate a small problem in a quick fashion.

Tim's right...I did ask before, but like I said, I thought it was minimal rust. I know I'm doing things backwards, and that's a "live and learn" lesson on my part, but the fact is that the paint is on there and I have to do my best to protect it. We will protect the thresholds. My friend already mentioned that to me when he was looking things over. So we will make sure all of that is protected. We will do our best to make it watertight.

[47heaven]

Darin,

I have used some fiberglass to patch holes in the trunk of my car. It works well in areas that aren't structural supports. I was going to replace the spare well but I was tired after a month of installing the floor in the cab. So I just used several layers of glass instead. It works but isn't as pretty as replacement. I used stainless rivets to hold the new floor panels in place and then spot welded them. I used automotive caulking to seal all the seams on top and bottom sides of the floor. My floor doesn't look as nice as Rockwood's but it is there to stay for the next half century. I bought the sheetmetal at the local steel supply for about $40.

Bob

Hey Bob...whatever works. I'm not worried how bad the patch up work looks because it will be covered. Evidently, the trunk seems to have no rust...surprisingly. Just need to Por 15 it, paint it, and then put a new mat in there.

[47heaven]

Here is the web site you ask for.

Dennis

http://www.plymouthdoctor.com/

That's the site, Dennis, but holy frijoles....this guy is expensive! Just on the front center floor pan and right and left extentions, which is what I really need, it's $755 alone! This guy must cater to the rich and famous or the retired guys living of a fat pention.

I'll have to think about a cheaper way to do this. The problem is that all the parts mentioned above have some rust damage on my car.

[Plymouthy Adams]

old car hood/roof section, tape measure, square, pencil, ziz wheel, couple weld clamps and execute the repair..is not that hard and work in sections you can fix it and never warp the piece out of shape or spend a fortune either.

[Young Ed]

Tim for big rusty sections do you put some bends in it for strength? The car I'm working on has pretty much just a tranny hump left.

[Plymouthy Adams]

Last large section I put in was the cover where the spare tire well was..I cross hatched it on the brake before welding it in...small repair sections will suffice with the welded perimeter adding strength beyond what you would think. You can get a bead roller at Harbor Freight if you wish..these are pretty much low in price right now. I have one of these also but have used it but rarely. I try to conform my patch to fit, if it has a bead I will try to duplicate it and weld in the patch...the Triumph Spitfire's and Porsche's had more bead in it that these old Mopars...recessed panel area where the body bolts on I also duplicate when patching floors.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v79/bigaadams/skinnedwell.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v79/bigaadams/footwell.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v79/bigaadams/o-lay3.jpg

[55 Fargo]

You could use POR 15 it's good stuff, or you can go with Zero Rust it's a lot cheaper and is just as good, or even Tremclad or Rustoleum, these are very good alkyd rust enamels. Or you could prime with any of these paints and spray over with 100% Rubberized Undercoating, make sure the surface is free of grease, dirt and dust before you paint, all joints can be sealed with autobody seam sealer, either the brushable or caulking gun style...........Fred

[Young Ed]

Tim those are some very beautiful welds. So far I have yet to be able to produce anything that nice. Hoping that by the time I finish messing up the 51 I'll be better at it!

[Plymouthy Adams]

Thanks Ed..I love using my oxygen/Acetylene torch...

[Young Ed]

Here's one of my welding projects. It came out ok.

[Jeff.P_46]

I have to replace most of my floor in my D24 coupe plus the rockers. I am going to use a piece of 2 x 3 x .083 wall tube to replace the rocker section. I'll post photos of it plus the floor when I do it here in the next month.

Jeff

[Lee Exline]

Precision auto body in Des moines makes floor pans for the P15 and D24 cars. The guy is reasonably priced and makes them out of a small garage in his back yard.

[Lou Earle]

I bought a 48 Plymouth convertible and the floors were really bad in the front. I had acquired a wire /gas shielded welder a few years back and so A friend on mine said it was a piece of cake to weld with it. We got 16 Gage

sheet metal-4x8 sheet fro about50 bucks.

I made patterns with heavy duty aluminum foil. The patterns would include the bends like at the toe boards. then we flattened out the patterns and outlined then on the metal sheet. Cut them out with a with wheel. Then like for toe board used a 4 pound hammer and edge of a 4x4 post to bend then into shape. It worked just fine .

Then came the welding. Tim Adams gave me a few tips as did my friend and we were off to the races in welding. The welds - mine - wee gorilla welds- strong but ugly- hey that is what a grinding wheel is for!!

I patched over not cut out and fit. I am not a perfectionist like others here- right Tim?? That weld of yours is sickening- it is so perfect!!!

So when I patched over if I had trouble clamping and I did I have no clamps

I simply ran a couple of self taping machine screw in thru both the patch and old metal to hold the patching place. Then when welded removed the screws and welded in the hole. I am glad I used the 16 Gage - a little heavier and I did not have to worry about tin canning at all. No problem there. When I got to the gas pedal area - about 3 curves- I made a pattern again of foil and flattened it out and marked it on the sheet and cut it out. Then just looked at it and kinda cut it or pleated it like u would a piece of fabric u are putting on a seat with the cutting wheel. bent it on vise and hammer and welded it back and put it in and welded it to the floor. Works just fine.

To me the trick to good welding is a VERY GOOD helmet. I splurged and spent about 100 on mine and it makes seeing very easy.

The point behind all this is that anyone can weld OK if I can with the new equipment. So why not look around your area for someone who can weld and u and that person go at it? Unless u are looking for perfect welding up floors is just not that critical to appearance and if you just use a little heavier metal I think u get much better results.

Couple of hints

1- take out the seat- front- makes it all much easier.

2 Clean the area very well with a wire brush. I laid my patch in then magic marked the edge on the old metal then wire brushed it mark of so I had clean metal to weld to .

3bucket of water close by or air gun. When I was welding floor some old grease caught fire( I had not looked under to see if there was any). I blew it out with air hose. Water hose would be good.

3 use gas shielded wire welder- very easy to use.

Also if you check the Aoogah site - a model ford guys if you cannot find someone on this board- I am sure u will find someone in your area to do the job for very little .

Lou