201 running far too rich

[Cpt.Fred]

after adjusting engine timing and points and trying some stuff on the carburetor, my engine is still running far too rich, i guess.

the plugs are coal black and stay that way.

are there different main jets for the carter 1bbl available?

when i got everything right i can only adjust the idle mixture from the outside on this model carb, the rest is set by the main jet, is that correct?

i hope this question is not too stupid...

[Don Coatney]

after adjusting engine timing and points and trying some stuff on the carburetor, my engine is still running far too rich, i guess.

the plugs are coal black and stay that way.

are there different main jets for the carter 1bbl available?

when i got everything right i can only adjust the idle mixture from the outside on this model carb, the rest is set by the main jet, is that correct?

i hope this question is not too stupid...

Post a picture of your carburetor and air cleaner. Is your choke butterfly opening all the way? What are your compression readings on this engine?

[Cpt.Fred]

when i wanted to test compression last saturday i had to notice the gauge was broken

(i'll never borrow stuff to this guy again...) and now i'm looking for another one,

so i cannot say yet. vaccum gauge on the intake showed a low vaccum level,

but i found another little air leak on the base of the carb.

carb:

completely rebuilt. i'll check the choke, though, good idea, thanks!

on the photo, taken directly after reassembly, it looks ok though, doesn't it?

air cleaner (washed out several times and filled with clean oil):

this is an old photo, from when i just got the car.

[Cpt.Fred]

by the way, this little air directing thingy on the side of the intake

is lost on my engine, does that have any negative effects?

theres only a small weight and a spring left, that's all...

everything else was missing when the car got here.

Edited June 13, 2010 by Cpt.Fred

[Don Coatney]

Choke appears to be fully open. Is your carburetor float level setting too high not allowing the float to fully shut off when the bowl is full? Are you getting a lot of blue/black smoke out the exhaust?

With the engine running and the oil fill cap removed is there a lot of smoke coming out the oil fill tube?

Have you tried running the engine with the air cleaner removed? Is the oil level in the air cleaner too high?

[Cpt.Fred]

hey don, thank you for the checklist,

i just wrote it all down and will try next time i get to the garage.

there was a small "oil level" mark inside the air cleaner outer housing that

appeared under all the grime when i cleaned it, that's how high the oil level is now.

the car doesn't smoke at all, neither blue nor black, that's why i always

thought the engine should be in a good shape. it smells quite rich, though.

i have 78500 miles on the meter... should be alright for those gray iron hulks:)

it starts great (maybe because it's too rich?)

though the starter turns really slow, one turn and it's alive.

i pull the choke, fire it up and immediately push the choke all the way back in.

i have not checked the float level after assembly, maybe i should because i am running an electrical pump.

i have not checked if there comes smoke out of the oil filler tube

(what's that, blow by in the crank housing?).

the engine runs quite normal without air cleaner, if i remember correctly.

best,

fred

[Don Coatney]

i have not checked the float level after assembly, maybe i should because i am running an electrical pump.

i have not checked if there comes smoke out of the oil filler tube

(what's that, blow by in the crank housing?).

the engine runs quite normal without air cleaner, if i remember correctly.

best,

fred

The electric fuel pump may be your problem. Does it shut off once the carburetor bowl is full or does it run all the time? How much pressure does it put out?

Yes to the blow by question.

[Cpt.Fred]

data says the pump puts out 0.6bar/8,7psi at 12V operation,

roughly half of this pressure when operated 6V (which is what i do).

that should be something the float bowl valve can cope with, i thought...?

[claybill]

finally it comes out...anELECTRICAL PUMP. that is the problem,

install a 'momentary on' switch under the dash for morning starting only.

notice that in all the replies the main jet is never mentioned. as the jet is never the problem...but the fuel/air supply usually is.

the e/pump is pushing tooo much gas at all times during running..

make it so that you can turn it off after starting.

bill been there.!

[greg g]

What are you using as an indicatio that the engine is running rich?? Black smoke from the exhaust, black sooty spark plugs, Strong smell of unburned fuel?

Is the base of your carb or the top of the intake wet with raw fuel?

Have you checked the internal step up jet in the carb??? This assembly is located on the passenger side of the carb, opposite the accelerator pump. It is operated by a vacuum signal from the intake manifold. You should be able to muve the assembly up and down against the spring with your finger or a screwdriver. The spring should return it to the top of its stroke when released. The assembly is the step up jet which takes over after the Acc pump givs its shot of gas when you step on the gas pedal.

High vacuum at idle, and at cruise hold this assembly down and the jet closed. As vacuum decreases with engine load, the needle will be pulled up from the jet releasing more fuel. If it is not getting its vacuum signal, Blocked port in the base of the carb, misaligned cabr to intake gasket, the spring will keep the jet open giving you a rich mixture all the time.

Also the acc pump's stroke is adjustable by putting the linkage in one of three holes available, which hole is your linkage in?

[claybill]

great info greg...

claybill

[Cpt.Fred]

bill, i had to throw out the mechanical pump since it was broken and i had an electrical pump ready at hand, so i am running electrical only...

this must be possible though, a lot of people do it.

if it's not, i'd have to buy a new mechanical one:(

greg, my indicators are a catatrophic gasmileage (about 10mpg),

coal black spark plugs and strong smell.

now as you mention it, i noticed a little fuel on the base of my carb once,

right on the socket between the bolts.

thanks for the info on the step up jet, helps me a lot in understanding the carb!

i noticed that nobody talked about the main jet, so i guess i'll bury my plans on that...

i guess i can tame the monster in the end with the help of you guys

by the way, speaking of spark plugs, i have the gap set to 0.02". that's how the plugs came, they're champions. is that ok?

Edited June 13, 2010 by Cpt.Fred

[Young Ed]

Fred perhaps you need a pressure regulator to calm down that elec pump.

[Cpt.Fred]

i guess i'll check the float level first.

i'll take of the carb's top and have the pump running against the valve, see what it does.

4-5 psi shouldn't be a problem for it, i always thought...

[p24-1953]

what does it mean if the base of the carb and the intake manifold is wet with gas? I also am running rich but have a good strong vaccum, one strange thing for me is that after sitting for more than a few hours then the bowl of the carb is empty. i am also only getting 10mpg w/ overdrive on the highway.

[greg g]

P24 Where do you think the gas in t the float bowl is going. It can't evaporate that fast. If the float bowl is overflowing the gas will run directly down the throuat of the carb, puddling o the closed throttle plate. AOme of it will migrate out through the throttle plate pivot, and be noticable on the base of the carb/ and manifold directly under the carb.

I would suggest you both check you float levels. And I recommend you set them a couple 32ths below factory spec to accomodate todays fuel formulas.

My 230 equiped coupe gets 17 to 19 mpg with 4.11 rear and no OD and dual carbs.

You both should check your oil to see if it smells strongly of gas.

Bob Van Buskirk had a similar problem a couple years back with his 54 wagon. 11 to 12 mpg, sooty plugs and black smoke under load. It turned out to be his step up valve. When he repositioned the gasket his mileage went up appreciably.

Capt. Fred your spark plugs should be .028 to .030.

In the pic note the slots in the single barrel gasket. One of them needs to line up with the hole or port in the base of the carburetor casting. some have a small hole and some have slot leading to a hole. This hole leads to the piston for the step up and holds it down and closed. If this is blocked the spring pushes it up ad the jet feeds all the time.

Essentially feeding your engine through 2 main jets. Capt Fred if you are familiar with SU or Solex side draft carbs, this work very much like the main jet set up in them where the air flow throughthe carb lifts the piston and pulls the needle out of the jet to increase the flow of fuel. Sorry if this is to much detail. But it simperative that that assembly moves freely up and down and that it gets its vacuum signal.

[Cpt.Fred]

greg, there is absolutely no need to apologize! on the contrary!

i am very, very happy that someone is able to explain the mechanism in words i can understand; though my english is not the best i get familiar with the technical terms step by step and i know exactly what you're talking about.

i guess you might be very right, that's amazing. i will dig through my photographs i made during reassambly of the carb to see what gasket i used.

float level will be checked.

i'll get back to you when i have results.

many thanks to you, and all you others!

[greg g]

No problem, just didn't want to seem to be going over the same ground to many times and insulting anyone's intellegence.

It is good to know my descriptions are understandable.

Hope you find your problem without to much trouble.

[claybill]

is it difficult to get a mechanical pump over there..? they are not expensive and used ones are $20.

most who use the electrical pumps use them in connection with the mechanical and shut them off after the motor starts. they can be plumbed straight thru.

next time i come to italy i'll bring you one!!!!

bill

[Arthur1947]

Sounds like a problem I had. I'd pull the float and shake it.

Best.

ARTHUR

[P-12 Tommy]

is it difficult to get a mechanical pump over there..? they are not expensive and used ones are $20.

most who use the electrical pumps use them in connection with the mechanical and shut them off after the motor starts. they can be plumbed straight thru.

next time i come to italy i'll bring you one!!!!

bill

He won't be there if you go to Italy.:D

Tom

[claybill]

i know tommmmmmmy..... but it will be close enough to mail it. ha!

b

[Cpt.Fred]

[Don Coatney]

If you still have your mechanical pump you can replace the rubber parts for around twenty five bucks American and it will be as good as new again.

Does German petrol contain Eathanol?

[Cpt.Fred]

yes, to my knowledge it does. i have had various problems with other cars over the last years due to the new fuel ingredients. it seems to be very agressive.

i just found the adress of antique auto cellar and the rebuilt kit is on my list (along with the heat riser valve kit from the other thread...)

i've got quite a list here now, this will be real exciting and hopefully rewarding for both my wallet AND the engine's life duration...