Dan's Hemi swap project

[wayfarer]

Aaaahhhhh...the point of 'no-return'...

Now you can get in there and sort out the master cylinder location issue.

.

[Dan Babb]

No turning back is right.

The whole brake system is going to have to be changed. I found a couple of good options (none of which were in the budget).

I can go with a firewall mounted setup. Found some at this company:

http://ecihotrodbrakes.com/firewall_mounted_systems.html

They also have some frame mounted solutions...but I need to measure the placement once I get the hemi in there.

http://ecihotrodbrakes.com/ford_master_cylinder_systems.html

Or I could keep the engine bay clean and do an under-dash setup. I'd just have to run a remote resovoir in the engine bay.

http://ecihotrodbrakes.com/hanging_pedal_assemblies.html

If anyone knows of a setup that I might be able to get from a salvage yard, that would be great information to have handy. I'm not sure if any OEM's used a firewall mounted setup that I could remove (easily) from a U-Pull-It yard. I'm still leaning toward an automatic trans, so don't have to worry about the clutch setup.

[rockable]

Way to go, Dan!

The whole brake system is going to have to be changed. I found a couple of good options (none of which were in the budget).

BUDGET! LOL! You can forget budget now.

Someone should have told you about Rock's Law. Estimate what you think it will cost and the amount of time you think it will take........then multiply by 4! You'll be closer than you'd like to admit.

[Dave72dt]

I purchased a chrome single diaphram booster from Speedway and will use a dual master from a Jeep. They're aluminum bodied and can be polished. Will be making my brackets for the pedal mount. Running a disc drum combination with an adjustable proportioning valve

[tysouthwick]

Ty...did you get the Hemi?

Update on mine.

4 hours of work and thanks to the help of a great neighbor (and new best friend), hit a milestone.

Got the engine out finally.

Someday, when the swap is complete, I'll try my hand at doing a rebuild on the old flathead just to have it freshened up.

I decided not to buy the hemi becuase I was a little discouraged by the rebuild prices I have done some reasearch they range from any where from 2000 to 6000 and these are soposedly very common numbers:eek: its much cheeper to rebuild my old flathead than through money at hemi for me, even though I would love to have one in my truck

[wayfarer]

I decided not to buy the hemi becuase I was a little discouraged by the rebuild prices I have done some reasearch they range from any where from 2000 to 6000 and these are soposedly very common numbers:eek: its much cheeper to rebuild my old flathead than through money at hemi for me, even though I would love to have one in my truck

Yes, the Hemi is a little bit expensive, but no more so than other v-8's from the 50's like the 303 Olds or the 331 Caddy.

If you think that you might someday want to look at the Hemi then consider installing a 318/360 now and make all of the needed changes (ala Dan). At that 'later' date you will be two steps ahead of everyone else.

[MMcKinney]

Dan,

Maybe check out Pirate jacks web site for better pricing of brake pedals, pedal brackets and boosters and such...

www.Piratejack.net

The pedals and brackets I have are very similar and worked very well in my truck. The fit was easy and very little cutting of the one support. I also used the 8 inch dual booster and corvet style master cylinder. I have not tried it all yet, but it all fits well. The site also has a pretty good technicail page and will help you decied what you need and how to set it up properly.

Go to the "Store" selectio and then choose what you want to look at. I was going to go with the under floor type pedal (PRAU2831) but I'm glad I switched to the universal under dash mount (PRAUF1) and it fit very well. I only had to drill the four mounting holes and then notch the firewal to dash mount support just above the factory steering column. Actually, if you look at the "power brake units" selection the PBU6001 is the conplete unit I used. Booster, pedal, and Master cylinder.

MMcKinney

Caldwell, ID

[tysouthwick]

Yes, the Hemi is a little bit expensive, but no more so than other v-8's from the 50's like the 303 Olds or the 331 Caddy.

If you think that you might someday want to look at the Hemi then consider installing a 318/360 now and make all of the needed changes (ala Dan). At that 'later' date you will be two steps ahead of everyone else.

I have been thinking about a 318 swap, I would like to have the power of a v8 but I love the looks of a flathead there is something about them that I love, to me It is cheeper to buy the 318 that runs ( It comes with the whole ramcharger too) for 100 dollars than to rebuild a 230 for 900 To many decisions if ya ask me:rolleyes:

[Dan Babb]

Got the engine set into the engine bay just to see how things fit.

I'm not sure how it's looking though. Some questions I have are:

The tape measure in this picture shows where the axle line is. Should the engine sit back further? I can really only go about another 1" or so before I hit the firewall. If I cut the firewall, I can still only go about 1.5" from where it sits now because of the steering shaft.

I can't really go much lower. The balancer hits the cross member. Right now, it's only about a 1/4" of clearance. I could cut some clearance in the cross member, but would rather not have to do that.

Look where I have the level sitting on top of the engine. You can see where the top of the engine meets the floorboard. I'm not sure on what transmission I'm going to use, but do you think the engine is low enough?

If I don't have it low enough in back, can I put the engine in at a slight slant? Right now, it's hanging at about a 2 degree down in the rear slant. Could the rear be slanted more if needed? I could always have a carb base machined so the carb would sit level.

I wonder if they make a smaller diameter balancer for this engine? That would give me some extra room to put the engine lower if needed.

Here's a front view:

The block of wood represents where the opening is for the radiator mount. My pulley will have to sit above that block or I'll have to clearance the U shaped bracket. I don't think that would be a big deal, but just wanted to have something for reference.

Edited July 31, 2010 by Dan Babb

[Dave72dt]

Where does the fan sit in relation to the rad,rad support? Do you have clearance for exhaust around the frame rails, steering? Will the starter clear everything?

Frame needs to be at ride height, front and rear, level side to side. Normally you would set the engine at level across the carb mounting surface on the intake manifold.

Myself, I'd move the engine up and back about 3 inches, which means recessing the firewall.

[JBNeal]

That is a fine lookin' Hemi ya got there, but I reckon you've got a li'l work ahead of ya gettin' it wedged into that engine compartment. I reckon you're gonna have to modify the firewall & floorboard for engine & transmission installation because you need more clearance between the front crossmember & the balancer. Locating the center of gravity of the engine behind the front axle will help in unladen stability, especially during a hard braking maneuver. Anyhow, keep up the good work!

[Dan Babb]

I have clearance for exhaust and steering. Not sure about the starter yet if I use a Dodge or Chrysler transmission....but if I go with a Chevy trans, then the starter goes on the passenger side and I have plenty of room.

I can go back about 1 1/2 or so if I bring the engine just a bit higher without having to recess the firewall. I don't have the skills to do that in my own garage, so I'd rather not have to cut it.

I need to research starter position on the transmissions. Then I'll decide and buy those parts. Then I can put everything in again for a test fit and start making up mounts.

[HanksB3B]

BIGGER Brakes.

Hank

[Dan Babb]

Front end disc conversion is in the plans.

[fstfish66]

nice project,,didnt see what year the truck was,,

resessing the fire wall ,,i have seen many done dont laugh,by useing a already formed concrete mixing pan,or small wheel barrel,, picture it,, cut the fire wall out just a tad smaller then the pan,,weld the fire wall t othe lip of the concrete mixing pan,,moving that big hunk of beautiful hemi will make for better handleing,,,, kool project,,

[Dan Babb]

Thanks for that idea. I agree that it would be better, but not sure I can pull it off. I don't have the right welding equipment to do the patch. A friend has a welding setup, but it's 220V and I only have 110 in the house.

I picked up a transmission. Don't give me cr@p...it's a GM TH350. I decided that I really need the space for the starter on the passenger side. That really limited my options.

I'm going to order the adapter today. I think by next weekend, I can bolt the trans up to Hemi and do another trial fit and decide where the mounts are going. I can then really see if how much firewall I would have to cut if I can find a way to solve the welding dillema.

I've come up with a way to make mounts that will bolt in. That way, if the truck ever goes back to stock, it will be no problem.

[smallblockjunkie]

the engine looks good in there. Next time you put the engine and trans in to build mounts have the rad mounted and all the front end of the engine put together(water pump ,fan , all pullies) then put that beast in there and start building your mounts. No fun doing things over when you can figure it out the first time.just take your time and measure everything twice and cut once.If you have to slide the cab back on the frame to install it no big deal but your starting point is to get the engine mounted in so you have the clearance for the rad then worry about the firewall after the engine and trans is mounted

[Dan Babb]

Excellent tip. I know that if I don't cut the firewall, the radiator will have to come forward at least 4-5". I planned on doing that by leaving the U where it's at, but making a L bracket to mount the radiator to.

I don't think I can cut into the firewall by 4". If I move the engine back too far, then the exhaust dump will hit the steering box...then I'd have to fab up headers ( another skill I lack ).

Maybe I'll just weld in a couple hundred pounds of steel plat to the frame under the bed to balance out the weight distribution and leave the engine where it is.

[fstfish66]

maybe you have some one local to you that has a mobil welding set up on the back of a truck,, that cold come over after you cut and fit either the pan i talked about or some other way of doing it,,, then he could mig weld it in ,,and you could do the finish grinding and sanding of the weld,,

take a few measurements and consider shifting the motor to the passenger side just a tad to clear your steering column,,or modify the column,,

in the 60s and 70s all mopar engines were off set to the passenger side to clear there design steering box,

if theres a will theres a way,,,,,

[ssdodge51]

There are plenty of firewall setbacks used by streetrodders all over the planet. My 37 Ford has a Bitchin firewall setback for a 350 chevy. You could always buy one of those, cut it to fit and weld it in. They also make setbacks for Big Block Chevys which would probably work for your Dodge Truck. I have done quite a bit of repair/restoration and having a pre-formed piece of metal or panel will say you major headaches and time.

Just another opinion!

[48Dodger]

If you look through the bonneville thread, you see how I did a straight forward firewall. I built it around the a mock motor and finished the cab off the frame.

48D

http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/showthread.php?t=15472

[Dan Babb]

Spent about 4 hours today getting the engine & trans set in the truck so I can start to work on the motor mounts. Decided I'm not going to try to cut the firewall. I think for how I'll be using the truck, the engine placement will be fine.

Few pics from today.

Getting ready to go in:

Almost:

Sitting on a mount I made to hold it in place for now. It's sitting higher in front than it will be when secured to the frame, so it won't be at the angle you see now:

Need to think up mounts for the front. Here's what I'm looking at. I checked out the whole Hemi Mounts thread, but really don't have any great ideas. Anyone have any ideas that will help me?

Driver side:

Front view:

Side View:

Passenger Side:

Front View:

Side View:

I'd like mounts that would be a bolt in solution - I don't have any 220 outlets in the garage, so welding isn't an option yet.

From the front view, you can see the bolt in the crossmember where the original mounts bolted in. It would be nice to be able to have something that would bolt to the side of the frame and bolt into the front cross member too for extra stability.

[Dave72dt]

I used a Dodge motor mount, rectangular in shape with a stud on top and bottom. The studs are offset a little from each other so it gives you some wiggle room to fine adjust your engine position but you'll stillneed a connection to the frame. Heavy cardboard or thin plywood and glue will make a mockup frame bracket that you can have fabbed at a local welding shop. Drill a couple holes and bolt in.

NAPA # BK6021170, online for 6.49 is what I used.

[JBNeal]

ya might be able to fab up a bridge from the original crossmember motor mount location just past a line scribed by the shock absorber mount. this could extend the frame to a point that your motor mounts can be installed.

[fstfish66]

from the pic, it looks like that piece you have bolted t othe motor,,may interfere wit hthe exhaust manifold,or headers..also that piece bolted to the motor,doesnt appear to be heavy enough. if you can find the steel part of a dodge truck/van motor mount, from a 318 it should bolt right up to that motor of urs,, we used 318 mounts mocking up a desoto hemi motor,,, the pick up/van metal parts are much stronger,,and some where in the 3 to 4 inchs in height,,may make it easier to adapt as a starting point,,,they are shaped like a U almost looks like a piece of channel ,, im going out right now to take a pic,,,of one in my garage on a motor ,,,,