trans swap

[Dale Uhrich]

I haven't been able to find alot on langdon's t5 tranny swap. Has anyone done this and is it as easy as it sounds? hints? problems? clutch? throw out bearing? if someone has done this in a truck would it be possible for me to call you?

[wayfarer]

...everyone else must be sleeping...there was some discussion on this awhile back, seems that there is a particular bellhousing required for that adapter but now I'm not sure. Does the mfgr not indicate what specific starting point you must have? IIRC, this is a plate that attaches to the bellhousing and then mounts the t-5, so the flywheel, pressure plate and throw-out bearing should all be stock units. The clutch disc will, of course, need to match the trans.

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[Dale Uhrich]

i was under the impression on cars you need an adaptor and on trucks you don't because it's a larger bell housing. also will the same speedometer cable work?

[Young Ed]

Dale you are correct. Its cars that use that bolt on adaptor. Here is the Langdons kit. I haven't installed it yet or even bought a T5 so I can't say all that much about how it works out. The 3 pieces of the kit are a spacer for the throwout bearing, a mopar to GM pilot bushing, and a spacer for the T5 input shaft to make it a tight fit to the opening in the mopar bellhousing. Besides that you just drill and tap 4 mounting bolts. What I haven't figured out yet is if it requires modifications of the frame crossmember behind the tranny.

[48Dodger]

Try this thread from December.

http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/showthread.php?t=13147

48D

[Olddaddy]

I've done two so far and it's a piece of cake on a truck. It is easier with the bell housing on the floor or drill table, but it can be done in the truck also. You install the shim ring on the input shaft housing and then set the tranny into the the bell housing opening. Rotate the tranny around till it is oriented properly with the shifter in the correct upwards position. Clamp the tranny down, or carefully use a transfer punch to centerpunch the holes on the tranny mounting ears. Remove tranny and drill/tap the new holes on the bell housing. Install the small pilot bushing into the crank end. Install the big bushing into the throwout bearing. You use a clutch disc splined for the T5, I think for an S10 pickup, and your original pressure plate. Bolt in the tranny and you are done.

[Young Ed]

Any cross member mods? Mine would be for a job rated but these guys would want to know for a pilot house

[grey beard]

Young Ed,

My Pilothouse has no rear crossmember under the tranny. The gear box bolts to the bell housing which is also the rear motor mount unit.

Can the guy who just told us how to do a Pilothouse tell us how he handled the prop shaft prat of the installation?

Anybody know how many different types/gear ratios of T5 gear boxes are out there? Many applications used this box for many years. Guess for Pilothouse applications a mechanical speedo would be preferrable over the newer electronic type.

Sure wish we had more info on this pruject . . . . . .

[woodscavenger]

I have done it in my truck. Here is what I learned.

1) I was going to tap and drill the bell housing since I had it out. two of the holes would have been easy. Two others, I think on the drivers side partially overlapped the mounting holes for the old tranny. I took it to a machine shop which put a bolt in the hole, brazed it in, then drilled and tapped the holes.

2) The bushings are a snap to install. The hardest part for me was getting out my old pilot bushing.......2 hours.

3) You have to cut about 3/8" off of the T5. Not the actual splined input shaft but the outer, not moving shaft. I did not see this in the instructions. Mine mounted...very snuggly on the last 1/4". When I started the truck it made the worst noise you could hear. I thought I have started my engine without oil. Initially I thought I had clutch pedal adjustment problems but found out that the slightly longer shaft pinned my clutch disc center up against the flywheel and actually tore the splined center section of the disc out of the disc. I pulled the tranny, cut off about 3/8", got a new disc and it was good to go.

4) You need to make a new floor panel with the shifter toward the seat.

5) You need to have the bends taken out of the S10 shifter so it will not hit the seat.

6)Clutch disc is tricky. The flywheel is 11". The S10 T5 is a 14 spline 1.25 inch if I recall with a 9" disc standard for the 4cyl S10. This disc will work. That is what I have in right now. However if you order a disc for an 89 GMC Safari mini-van you can get a 14 spline 1.25", 11" clutch disc. ( This is the one I originally shredded and was too impatient to wait the 2 weeks for the special order disc so I went and bought a standard S10 disc and installed it.

7) You will lose your E brake. I made a bracket and have kept my old pull handle. I plan on retrofitting it to my cables from the 97 Cherokee but have not completed that step yet.

8) Rear cross member clearance is not a problem. The tail has plenty of room. I bought an entire S10 to get my tranny so I took the old tranny rear cross member and with some simple cuts, 2 pieces of angle iron, some bolts and black paint I easily welded together a tail shaft support.

[Young Ed]

Shane

What tranny did your truck have to start with? The 3spd and 4spds have a different mounting pattern. I wonder if one started with the opposite one from what you did if they could avoid that problem of the holes overlapping. Also in Don Coatneys intall I believe he cut off the tranny arms and drilled new mounting holes closer in. Could you have done that too?

Cutting the front off the T5 may vary on what the original application was. There are a lot of variants.

Glad to see you were able to make something to retain your stock ebrake arm. I'd like to manage that too. What did you attach it to? Got a pic?

[Young Ed]

Just found this pic of the distance between the bellhousing and frame member for my pickup. Looks further back that I was remembering.

[Merle Coggins]

It's pretty tight on mine. However I have Fluid Drive and the larger 4 speed trans. I actually had to jack up the front of the engine to remove the trans when I was disassembling. And even at that I had to remove the parking brake assembly to clear the cross member.

I pulled a 3 speed out of my parts truck (without F/D)... what a breeze compared to the trans in my truck.

Merle

[grey beard]

Now, can someone who has put a T5 into a PIlothouse, please tell me what you did for a work-around for a prop shaft? What fits? What did you use - the stock shaft with a modified front end?

Thanks

[Young Ed]

Dave so far the few people I know that do it swap in a later rear end to go with the 5spd and probably use the driveshaft that came with either the t5 or the new rear end or an all together custom one

[woodscavenger]

I never drove the truck and did not ID the tranny but I think it was a 3spd when I pretended to drive it.

On my T5 you could not cut and redrill new mounting holes in the tranny.

I have yet to complete the e-brake. I plan on using the original lever and the rod att the base that attached to the brake. I will likely route the new cables to a common juntion and create a cable or steel rod of some sort to attach to it.

Shane

What tranny did your truck have to start with? The 3spd and 4spds have a different mounting pattern. I wonder if one started with the opposite one from what you did if they could avoid that problem of the holes overlapping. Also in Don Coatneys intall I believe he cut off the tranny arms and drilled new mounting holes closer in. Could you have done that too?

Cutting the front off the T5 may vary on what the original application was. There are a lot of variants.

Glad to see you were able to make something to retain your stock ebrake arm. I'd like to manage that too. What did you attach it to? Got a pic?

[woodscavenger]

Since I bought the whole S10 to get the T5 I took the shaft to a local place and they created a custom shaft.

Now, can someone who has put a T5 into a PIlothouse, please tell me what you did for a work-around for a prop shaft? What fits? What did you use - the stock shaft with a modified front end?

Thanks

[Young Ed]

Pilothouse guys anyone know if this is a 3spd or a 4spd? Did trucks still have floor shifted 3spds at this time?

[Merle Coggins]

Pilothouse guys anyone know if this is a 3spd or a 4spd? Did trucks still have floor shifted 3spds at this time?

That looks like the 4 speed. The cover is shaped the same as mine. And I'm not sure that the 3 speeds had a PTO drive.

Merle

[Young Ed]

Thanks Merle that gives me hope I won't have the issue he had with the bolt holes overlapping

[grey beard]

Gents,

Any time you eyeball a truck - or for that matter a gear box - and want to know if it is 3 or 4 speed, just put the stick in neutral and feel for a spring-loaded detent on the left or right side while in the neutral position.

What's that you say, no springie-like detent there? Than it's definitely a 3-speed. Four speed boxes use the detent to keep you out of the reverse gate whilst upshifting. All four speeds have the standard H shift pattern for 1-2-3-4, with reverse usually to the right.

Works every time for me. AND you can tell this with the truck dead and not running, and without eyeballing the tranny. Ain't that neat? :)