Rings,Rings and more Ring questions

[dezeldoc]

Ok did a search and came up with nothing on this. Does anybody know if their is a modern set of rings that will fit the 218?? I want to do a poor mans rebuild on the p-20 before I put the head and pan back on. Everything looked good in the motor, but their was a little oil in a couple of cylinders. I am leaning towards believing that the milage on the odometer is the original milage. This thing should be up and on the road by the end of the month. another question does anybody know if any kind of late model stock radiator will fit in this thing, shop said mine had holes all over it, but when it was full of water it did not leak, their was no rust in the cooling system on anything I have looked at so far including the transfer tube. Thanks Mike

[Don Coatney]

Is there a problem using the correct rings? Why do you want "modern" rings?

[RobertKB]

Lots of places have the rings. Try NAPA. I doubt "modern" rings will be cheaper.

[dezeldoc]

Lots of places have the rings. Try NAPA. I doubt "modern" rings will be cheaper.

That was the thought!! since I'm out of work I got to do things on the cheap now!!

[Fluid drive]

Dezeldoc:

I would be very careful about just sticking a set of rings in that engine. If the cylinder walls are tapered you are wasting your time. Chrysler used to make oil saver rings for tapered engines but by the time you hone those bores enough to allow the new rings to seat you will have noisy pistons that slap on start up. ALso if the bearings are very worn there will be enough oil spray on the cylinder walls that any kind of a piston ring won't be able to handle all the oil. Take it from an old fool that's made all the mistakes more than once. Better save your money and do it right !

[dezeldoc]

Not to worried about it, not going to be putting a lot of miles on it, for putting around town to shows and back it should be fine. If it were a daily driver then I would say no and go through it.

[Frank Elder]

Now,tapered bores, can I get a education? So new to me. The pistons are tapered?

[dezeldoc]

The short version, The pistons will wear the cylinders from round at the bottom of the cylinder to egg shaped at the top as they go up and down in the cylinder. the load on them from the crank makes them do it. the pistons are designed round at the top and the sides are made to a skirt design and only touch on the load side. it is always a good idea to bore and hone the cylinders unless you are a broke man like me!

[RobertKB]

I honed the cylinders and ringed the pistons at 72,000 miles. Had to take a ridge reamer to remove a very slight ridge to get the pistons out. I used the old bearing shells as they plastigaged very close to original. 25 years later the car now has 95,000 miles and does not smoke or use much oil. Probably leaks most of what little it uses. Putting in a set of rings and lapping the valves sure worked for me.

[blueskies]

....does anybody know if any kind of late model stock radiator ....

I have heard that 49-53 Chevy pickup radiators are a close fit, but I have not verified this. If so, they are readily available through street rod shops.

Pete

[dezeldoc]

I honed the cylinders and ringed the pistons at 72,000 miles. Had to take a ridge reamer to remove a very slight ridge to get the pistons out. I used the old bearing shells as they plastigaged very close to original. 25 years later the car now has 95,000 miles and does not smoke or use much oil. Probably leaks most of what little it uses. Putting in a set of rings and lapping the valves sure worked for me.

Yep have done many that way without any problems, and that is why this one is going down that road.

[dezeldoc]

I have heard that 49-53 Chevy pickup radiators are a close fit, but I have not verified this. If so, they are readily available through street rod shops.

Pete

Just happen to have a couple of those in the yard, I'll try one out thanks.

[Suddensix]

I bought a set of Hastings rings on ebay for $20.00 for my 218. Back in the day Hastings were always good rings to use if your cylinder walls were less than perfect.

[norrism1]

I used TRW rings and things back in 95 when I rebuilt my 218 B3B.

[greg g]

If you think tapered cylinders sounds wierd. Look up oval ground or cam ground pistons, because that's what's in our cars.

[dezeldoc]

I have heard that 49-53 Chevy pickup radiators are a close fit, but I have not verified this. If so, they are readily available through street rod shops.

Pete

Well I got a couple out and they are close but to tall, I am going to check it out better in the am, it fits width wise but I want to see if it will interfere with the hood. If it works I'm home free!!

The funny thing is I have been putting an engine in my 49 Chevy p/u the last couple of days.

[grey beard]

Dezel,

Back to your quick-fix ring job. The real reason why cylinders wear much more at the top of the piston stroke is that this is the place where combustion takes place. The top of the piston's stroke is also the point where the least sikash lubrication is available and the most heat is taking place. Hence, the tapered cylinder wear.

When you pull a head and see a righ groove at the top of your cylinder walls that is of sufficent magnitude to catch your fingernail on it, you are looking at a worn cylinder. The ridge at the top of the cylinder represents the original circumference of the cylinder bore before it started to wear. The ridge was caused by rings making the trip to almost the top of the cylinder many millions of times in a hot, low oil environment. From my experience, any time you must use a ridge reamer to get pisons out, a re-bore will automatically be needed. When you look down at the bottom of that cylinder, that area will show almost zero wear, because no combustion heat was present on that part of the stroke, and liberal splash lubrication was available. Besides, oil - like water - runs down hill, last time I checked.

My own experience with cheap ring jobs is that you really want to check the piston ring lands or grooves for side wear. Forget about cylinder taper. If it is greater than ten or twelve thousandths, rings won;t seat anyway. But if the new ring is loose on the old piston ring groove, you're wasting your time putting new rings into the thing - might as well stay in bed, for all the good it will do.

When I overhauled my truck engine, taper was okay, but the piston grooves were completely shot. This means that on our flatties, the pistons weare out before the cylinder walls, and that is logical. A new set of pistons is only about one hundred bucks, and rings are cheap. I've overhauled antique tractors that we knew would only be used for parades, where twelve thousandths or more taper was present, and they ran fine and didn't smoke, but they never had to do any meaningful work again in their lives. We always had the old piston grooves machined and spacers installed to keep the rings lined up right, but with labor costs today, this is couter productive and likely no one is doing it anyhow.

If your engine is so worn out and you don't want to do the job the whole way due to low bukkx, just do a used car overhaul with some 90 weight gear lub in the crankcase and bless the mess with a can of "mechanic-in-a-can" snake oil stuff. It'll do more good than new rings on old tired pistons in tapered cylinder walls. JMHO:)

[dezeldoc]

Do you remember the days of knurling the pistons? I go back a long way with autos and such, maybe not as long as you. I have done at least 30 or more motors this way and only had very few that did not work and they were so bad before I started I knew better. I know what you are saying about the ring lands but this thing ain't that bad, it only has about 10 thal of a lip on it. I still got to pull one out and check the pistons and berg. The thing you forgot to mention about the bore is that at the top of the stroke when it is firing it puts the load on the side of the piston when it pushes the piston down on the power stroke. I think we both know a lot about these things. but in the end it is gonna get rings and berg if it likes it or not!! if it makes me to mad I got a 360/904 on the side line that needs a home!! I wished they still made the good snake oil that they did years ago it worked better.