Uncle-Pekka Posted January 19, 2009 Report Posted January 19, 2009 Please do not throw the stones on me - help me! I am in deep ssss with an old caddy. June last summer I bought it via eBay and hired a guy to transport it to Finland. It was supposed to be here by end of Aug. Well, the guy ducked up his business and let me and many other customers down. The car spent 5 months in the container because the sea freight company kept them for unpaid bills. The car is finally out and I should drive it 200 miles from harbour up north where I live. Only... it is winter, frost, snow and according to the fellow who took the car from the container today it won't start... The question: I've heard, that some automatic transmissions cannot take long towing, because the oil pumps won't run, thus bearings will die dry. Some people recommend removing the drive shaft for towing. (It is not a pleasant job without proper jack outdoors in snow when temp is below 20F...) What is the case with the Caddy 1961 Hydramatic version? Can it be towed in case the stick is on Neutral? P.S. I will always be true to you folks, this mighty forum and my wonderful reliable D24, the Caddy will not take the place in my heart, even if I get it home in one piece... Quote
GeorgeLeonard Posted January 19, 2009 Report Posted January 19, 2009 That is the conventional wisdom with regard to automatic transmissions in general. Now I dont know if there is anything specifically different about a '61 Caddy transmission, but I doubt it. You need to either flatbed the car or remove the driveshaft. Sorry if that is bad news but I dont think you will want to be rebuilding that transmission-assuming that it is not already broken. Quote
GeorgeLeonard Posted January 19, 2009 Report Posted January 19, 2009 How about towing it by the front wheels. I believe that would involve securing the steering wheel so that it will not move. Most people just tie it off with a rope. Quote
Uncle-Pekka Posted January 19, 2009 Author Report Posted January 19, 2009 Hmm... I am not sure if I understood that... Do you mean that I should tie up steering wheel and place a dolly under the REAR wheels and tow it rear end first? One: Do not have a dolly, just a towing bar, thus all four must be on the road. Two: it should be a special "long horn dolly" to reach the rear wheels, because this bird has long tail. I guess towing is not a good idea with this project. Have to work out "plan B" ??? Quote
PatS.... Posted January 19, 2009 Report Posted January 19, 2009 Remove the driveshaft and tow it that way. Then you aren't trurning the transmission and can tow it with your tow bar. Quote
BobT-47P15 Posted January 19, 2009 Report Posted January 19, 2009 Do you have rental trucks (and rental car trailers) like they do here? Such as U-Haul? Would it be possible (and affordable) to rent a truck with which to pull a rented car trailer for the Caddy???? Quote
T120 Posted January 20, 2009 Report Posted January 20, 2009 Fuel line frozen? As it's mid winter,if the engine is turning over but won't start-possibly adding gas line antifreeze or methyl hydrate to the gas might be worth trying. Quote
Fireball Posted January 20, 2009 Report Posted January 20, 2009 Pekka my friend, you can't tow it. Even if you remove the driveshaft you'll have no brakes without the engine running. I'm pretty sure that caddy has powerbrakes, and we are now not talking about dry tarmac conditions but the icy freezy slippery Finnish winter roads. Real danger there, not only to ruin your newcomer but getting it sideways in a steep hill and on the other lane... Don't do it, get a truckfreight, it will be some 300,- local to Jyväskylä, but be safe. Call me if you need numbers. Quote
B-Watson Posted January 20, 2009 Report Posted January 20, 2009 The old automatic transmissions had two pumps - front and rear. If you tow a vehicle without removing the driveshaft, the rear pump will start pumping tranny fluid, usually supplying the torque converter at low speeds. Which is why you could push-start a two pump tranny. Or by coasting downhill. And if you are towing a vehicle, you will not be using the towed vehicle's brakes, engine running or not. Thus removing the driveshaft, or not, has no effect on the use of the brakes. So if you are towing a vehicle with the front end raised, remove the driveshaft. If you tow the vehicle with the steering secure, front wheels pointing straight ahead, and the rear wheels in the air, you can leave the driveshaft in place. Chrysler re-engineered the A904 and A727 Torqueflite transmissions during 1965-66, converting them to a single, front pump design. And dropping the ball and trunion joint behind the transmission for a slip-joint and "normal" cross u-joint. Quote
Fireball Posted January 20, 2009 Report Posted January 20, 2009 Bill, he just said that there's no option of towing with wheels off the ground. So the brakes WILL be needed with traditional Finnish towing methods. (no dollys, a rope between the cars) There's somebody always sitting in the towed vehicle, it's the law here. And let me bet, that '61 caddy does not have 904 or 727 so what does that onepumptwopump in them trannys matter here? If you haven't towed a big whale Cadillac in the icy road all wheels ground, let me tell you that the working brakes come really handy whenever going downhill or stopping. Ofcourse one can manage even without, but... Back in the day I drove my '52 Buick 150 miles in snow with 30 years old bias ply summertires and no brakes whatsoever. (It had been sitting in the barn for the last 20 years). I'm still here so it can be done but I wouldn't recommend it to anybody, I was stupid doing that. Safety is everything, roads here today aren't safe even with winter tires and working brakes. Quote
PatS.... Posted January 20, 2009 Report Posted January 20, 2009 Hmm...I am not sure if I understood that... Do you mean that I should tie up steering wheel and place a dolly under the REAR wheels and tow it rear end first? One: Do not have a dolly, just a towing bar, thus all four must be on the road. Two: it should be a special "long horn dolly" to reach the rear wheels, because this bird has long tail. I guess towing is not a good idea with this project. Have to work out "plan B" ??? I would think if the roads are bare and the tow vehicle can handle the weight of the Caddy, then a "towing bar" should work out well. Rope? Definetly not. Not even for a short distance. You still have to figure out how to attach the tow bar to the car...those front bumpers aren't really good for tow bar attachment. Maybe have attachments welded temporarily to the frame? We here in Western Canada have similar winter conditions and, while summer is preferable for sure, a tow bar tow would be doable in the daytime hrs. Quote
Young Ed Posted January 20, 2009 Report Posted January 20, 2009 I can't say how it was done because I wasn't there but my coupe was towed from wyoming to Mn on a tow bar behind a motorhome. The front bumper was removed and somehow the tow bar was connected to the front of the car. Quote
Uncle-Pekka Posted January 20, 2009 Author Report Posted January 20, 2009 Pekka my friend, you can't tow it. ... the icy freezy slippery Finnish winter roads. Real danger there... Ok, I belive your advice... Thanks all the folks sharing the knowledge. The idea was to tow it with a big van or small truck using a rigid tow-bar, but apart from the risk of an accident there is the transmission problem. It may be that I have to leave the cad in the harbour area until April. There's a friend who keeps his boat behind a closed wire-fence. The car would be exposed to the elements, but hopefully not to the boyz' in the 'hood:( Quote
Brendan D25 Posted January 21, 2009 Report Posted January 21, 2009 The car has been sitting for quite awhile and maybe the battery is not in top condition and maybe the clock works and has drained the battery. Maybe it will go with a boost or another battery. If you can't get it started, are there what we call tilt and load trucks there? Good Luck, Brendan. Quote
old woolie Posted January 21, 2009 Report Posted January 21, 2009 If it was mine I would find out why it won't start,fix that and then drive it. If it has to be towed with a tow bar it will be exposed to the snow,salt,slush,ice and whatever else that the tow vehicle will be throwing at it. Quote
Uncle-Pekka Posted January 21, 2009 Author Report Posted January 21, 2009 Fellows, The current plan is to go there next week with a fresh battery, tools, jacks, new spark plugs, coil, etc... I will try to get it started and see how far it could be driven. However, this is a car that has been sitting in a Detroit warehouse for 5-10 yrs. Never been restored, daily ran until eighties. It has severe rust damages all over in fenders and running boards. After 30yrs Michigan winter roads a touch of finnish snow & salt will not change a thing. The body must be restored all over anyway. The road conditions in Finland are poor just now. We've got five inches more snow today and temp. may be varying btw. -5C ... +5C, thus roads are really slippery. Once again, thanks to all of you. Mine problem was that I do not know automatic transmissions at all. Have just heard that towing may hurt most of them and wanted to make sure how it is especially with the '61 Hydramatic. Now I know it is better not to tow it long distance. However, if I compare to similar situation with my D24 three yrs back: It ran Ok when started, but started to cough after 50 miles and would not produce enough torque for steep up hill. I found out it was sucking fine rust dust from the tank and a 200 mile trip took me six hours - because I had to take apart the carburettor 6-8 times on the road. Would this happen with the caddy, one possibility would be run the engine idle and tow it by a rigid bar. Then the trans would get oil, brakes would bet pressure... right? /pekka Quote
greg g Posted January 21, 2009 Report Posted January 21, 2009 Brakes and tires would seem t also be a consideration on highways with packed snow on them. Good luck. Quote
PatS.... Posted January 21, 2009 Report Posted January 21, 2009 Fellows,The current plan is to go there next week with a fresh battery, tools, jacks, new spark plugs, coil, etc... I will try to get it started and see how far it could be driven. However, this is a car that has been sitting in a Detroit warehouse for 5-10 yrs. Never been restored, daily ran until eighties. It has severe rust damages all over in fenders and running boards. After 30yrs Michigan winter roads a touch of finnish snow & salt will not change a thing. The body must be restored all over anyway. The road conditions in Finland are poor just now. We've got five inches more snow today and temp. may be varying btw. -5C ... +5C, thus roads are really slippery. Once again, thanks to all of you. Mine problem was that I do not know automatic transmissions at all. Have just heard that towing may hurt most of them and wanted to make sure how it is especially with the '61 Hydramatic. Now I know it is better not to tow it long distance. However, if I compare to similar situation with my D24 three yrs back: It ran Ok when started, but started to cough after 50 miles and would not produce enough torque for steep up hill. I found out it was sucking fine rust dust from the tank and a 200 mile trip took me six hours - because I had to take apart the carburettor 6-8 times on the road. Would this happen with the caddy, one possibility would be run the engine idle and tow it by a rigid bar. Then the trans would get oil, brakes would bet pressure... right? /pekka Once again, if you remove the driveshaft, you can tow it with a tow bar without hurting the transmission. Then your concern would be the road conditions, which would also be a concern towing it with a tow bar while it was running, OR if you drove it. The way you described the condition of the car, I wouldn't try driving it that far in winter. Summer might be an adventure, winter is just dangerous. If you use a tow bar, leaving it running wouldn't matter to the brakes, you won't be using them anyway being towed. What happens if you tow it running and somehow you hit a bump or something and it slips into gear? Personally, I would rent a car trailer with two axles and electric brakes, tie the Caddy down on it, and using a large sized truck (3/4 to one ton) tow it home that way. Failing that, I would go get it out from where it is and rent a storage unit and store it inside until the weather and road conditions are more suitable to try to move it whether tow or drive. Quote
BobT-47P15 Posted January 21, 2009 Report Posted January 21, 2009 Yes.....what Pat said......is there any place that you could rent storage for a couple or 3 months till the weather gets better? Do they have "mini storage" places like we do here? Is there any towing company that would make you a deal? They usually charge by the day if they pull in your car from an accident. But, I would think they could make you a deal if they wanted to, for a couple months parking. Or a body shop that might have space??? Or any participants on the HAMB live in that city? Is there an American Car Club there......some member might be able to help. Just some thoughts. Quote
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