introduction and problem

[greg g]

A non operative vacuum advance will prevent any attempts to achieve a smooth transition from steady speed to open throttle operation regardless of where your initial timing is set. the vacuum advance anticipates the need for advance and overcomes the lag of the centrifigul advance.

I believe counterclockwise advances timing clockwise to retard.

[norrism1]

The distributor on a Mopar flathead does not have "teeth". It has a tang that resembles a flathead screwdriver and can only be installed two ways. And I have never seen a distributor installed in an intake manifold.

Don, Your right, Brain fart I guess. I need a vacation. LOL

[flattiefreak]

thanks for the help guys, where could i get a vacuum advance? also, I have been looking for the timing marks on the balancer and i cant see them. im not going to time the car until i get a vacuum advance and the carb is replaced. i just want to know where to look for the marks at. front of the balancer or the outer edge?

thank you

[Plymouthy Adams]

as viewed on my engine...

 

 

Edited May 20, 2017 by Plymouthy Adams

[flattiefreak]

thanks for the pic. where can i get a new vacuum advance??

[greg g]

distributors can be found on ebay from time to time as well as the advance units. thee are several types of distributors that were used and their vacuum advances are different. So probably getting a different dist with a good Vacuum advance would be the easiest route.

[woodie49]

I would highlight the timing marks on the balancer in a contrasting color so they can be seen. Mark the zero and the 10 either way and then dial in the timing. Tighten the distributor and then, with your timing light still hooked up, look at the timing marks and accelerate the throttle. You should see the timing advance as you accelerate. I would do this before concluding that you have a bad vacuum advance and replacing the distributor. If you don't see the timing advance, then make sure to check that the vacuum tube from the manifold to the distributor dashpot is connected at both ends and no leaks in the line. If the timing does advance, I would look more closely at some of the other suggestions here - accelerator pump, etc.

I am a firm beleiver in trying to work through these issues methodically to find the cause. Take a few extra minutes to try to test various issues before you start replacing things.

My '49 generally runs a little rich, but strong throughout the acceleration curve. I do have to give it a small amount of choke to start it when hot (full choke when cold). I have no idea why, but it starts right up with just a small amount of choke when hot, which I then fully open immediately. It took several weeks of various projects for me to get it to start reliably, and a big part was valve adjustment, which was significantly out - are yours loud when the engine is running? Another big part was cured the first time I static timed it.

[blueskies]

Hey Christian...

Glad to hear you have your flathead running again... I was one of the many who donated to your cause over on the Forward Look site...

The best flathead six advice on the net can be found right here, you've come to the right place to get your flatty running right.

Best,

Pete

[flattiefreak]

I would highlight the timing marks on the balancer in a contrasting color so they can be seen. Mark the zero and the 10 either way and then dial in the timing. Tighten the distributor and then, wit:eek: h your timing light still hooked up, look at the timing marks and accelerate the throttle. You should see the timing advance as you accelerate. I would do this before concluding that you have a bad vacuum advance and replacing the distributor. If you don't see the timing advance, then make sure to check that the vacuum tube from the manifold to the distributor dashpot is connected at both ends and no leaks in the line. If the timing does advance, I would look more closely at some of the other suggestions here - accelerator pump, etc.

I am a firm beleiver in trying to work through these issues methodically to find the cause. Take a few extra minutes to try to test various issues before you start replacing things.

My '49 generally runs a little rich, but strong throughout the acceleration curve. I do have to give it a small amount of choke to start it when hot (full choke when cold). I have no idea why, but it starts right up with just a small amount of choke when hot, which I then fully open immediately. It took several weeks of various projects for me to get it to start reliably, and a big part was valve adjustment, which was significantly out - are yours loud when the engine is running? Another big part was cured the first time I static timed it.

i will check a few things out before replacing the vacuum advance. im still having trouble finding the timing marks on the balancer.

[flattiefreak]

Hey Christian...

Glad to hear you have your flathead running again... I was one of the many who donated to your cause over on the Forward Look site...

The best flathead six advice on the net can be found right here, you've come to the right place to get your flatty running right.

Best,

Pete

hey thanks again for the donation. i have found this to be a great website. ill be making some adjustments this weekend on the engine and try to find the main problem.

[blueskies]

i will check a few things out before replacing the vacuum advance. im still having trouble finding the timing marks on the balancer.

My engine doesn't have a balancer. It just has the basic pulley on the crank, and the timing marks are very faintly stamped in the edge of the pulley. I use a piece of white chalk, and rub it on the edge of the pulley over the timing marks. The chalk fills in the marks, making them visible with the timing light, the white is a nice contrast to the black paint on the pulley.

Pete

[flattiefreak]

i have tried that but i still dont see anything. i have been looking on the very edge of the balaner. am i looking in the right place?

[blueskies]

i have tried that but i still dont see anything. i have been looking on the very edge of the balaner. am i looking in the right place?

I don't have a better close up picture, but the marks on my pulley are located on the flat area between the groove for the belt and the radiator side of the pulley.

If I remember right, Don Coatney has a good picture of the pulley with the integrated balancer, maybe he will chime in.

pete

[greg g]

start by cleaning it up with some fine sandpaper or steel wool. Many time the rust will make it virtually invisible.

[Normspeed]

Greg, I believe the changeover was in 54. the 53 models seem to all have the same good old Carter Ball & Ball carbs.

Different carter carbs were used beginning in 53 I believe. Its a squat little goober to fit in with the new lower hood lines. I believe it is a BBS. not the B1B we are all used to.

http://www.carburetorfactory.com/expvw02.html

[Don Coatney]

I don't have a better close up picture, but the marks on my pulley are located on the flat area between the groove for the belt and the radiator side of the pulley

If I remember right, Don Coatney has a good picture of the pulley with the integrated balancer, maybe he will chime in.

pete

Once again my good friend Pete. Here is a shot of a balancer that shows not much but originatially.

[blueskies]

Here's the shot I was thinking of Don, robbed from your photobucket...

Pete

[woodie49]

If you don't have, or can't find a timing mark on your pulley, you can do a couple things. If you go through the static timing steps, you will end up with your number one at TDC. At that point, paint a small mark on your pulley that lines up with the pointer. My guess is that, when you do this, you'll likely find the timing marks there. If not, now you will have a reference. Once you get the TDC line marked, you are good to go.

If you just want to check your advance, crank your engine around manually to get to close to TDC by removing #1 plug and waiting for the compression stroke. Make a chalk mark on your pulley, then use your timing light. You can't use the mark to time your engine, but it should be close enough to see with the timing light. Then just use the accelerator and see if the mark advances when you accelerate. When you are done, rub off the mark so you don't mistakenly set your timing to it later.

Definately worth finding true TDC and marking your pulley. Timing can be a big part of your tempermental starting.

[flattiefreak]

ok thanks guys for all the information. ill be setting thetiming and making other adjustments this weekend and ill give a report.

[flattiefreak]

hey guys, i tried yesterday to get the car started. all it dont was just turn over and over and over. im getting really frustrated with this. i just found tdc and made the mark on the balancer. it is getting fuel but still wont fire. i tried starting it with full choke and no choke and even in between but with no success. does this sound like a timing issue? i am going to get a test lamp in about five minutes to see if its getting spark. since i am getting the test lamp i will do the static timing steps and reset the point gap. if i succeed in getting it running today i will time it with the timing light.

[flattiefreak]

i finally got the engine running. it has a nice slow smooth idle now. i had a ballast resistor with the ignition system, i took it off and it seems to start up alot faster now. i want to thank all you guys for helping me solve this problem. i now know that the heat riser and vacuum advance are good. i just have a bad choke and a small crack at the base of the carb. this website has been very helpful to me and i plan on staying around this forum to keep my flattie running at peak performance.

[Jerry Roberts]

i finally got the engine running. it has a nice slow smooth idle now. i had a ballast resistor with the ignition system, i took it off and it seems to start up alot faster now. i want to thank all you guys for helping me solve this problem. i now know that the heat riser and vacuum advance are good. i just have a bad choke and a small crack at the base of the carb. this website has been very helpful to me and i plan on staying around this forum to keep my flattie running at peak performance.

flattiefreak , Are you using a 12 volt battery ? If so, you do need a resistor on the wire that goes to your distributor so that your points don't burn out real fast .

[Plymouthy Adams]

Jerry is right..it is there for a purpose...however quick starting using the 12 volt system and the resistor depends on proper wiring where you have the 12 volts applied directly to the coil input while in START mode only and thus revert back to reisotr in-line when in run position..the resistor is needed as in 12 volt application the coil will get twice the current and thus less than half the points normal wear life...

the short period of time the start circuit is engaged has minimal effect on the points and the heat build up within the coil during the start period does not lead to excessive heat..by-pass the resistor and you have a combination of both problems..

[Don Coatney]

Jerry is right..it is there for a purpose...however quick starting using the 12 volt system and the resistor depends on proper wiring where you have the 12 volts applied directly to the coil input while in START mode only and thus revert back to reisotr in-line when in run position..the resistor is needed as in 12 volt application the coil will get twice the current and thus less than half the points normal wear life...

the short period of time the start circuit is engaged has minimal effect on the points and the heat build up within the coil during the start period does not lead to excessive heat..by-pass the resistor and you have a combination of both problems..

That is exactly how I have my system wired. 12 volts when the starter solenoid switch is engaged. 6 volts as soon as I take my finger off the start button. Works well for me.

[flattiefreak]

i will put the resistor back on tomorrow. i have another question though.. when the engine was running today i noticed that there were tiny coals on the exhaust manifold.. could this just be the paint burning off the exhaust or is this a serious problem.? it was just a few tiny glowing coals on the exhaust.