Question about engine performance

[Rider145]

Hi All,

You guys are a wealth of knowledge for a rookie like me. I have recently gotten a 48 D-24 4 door Deluxe on the road. The engine run extremely quiet while idling, but once driving, it sounds like an old tractor. Seems like its "working". I am thinking that it may be the transmission? Any thoughts?

[aero3113]

when is the last time the transmission was serviced? But I think it is your fan,they can make alot of noise.

[Rider145]

Try putting it in gear and putting a load on the engine without moving the vehicle. Parking brake on, or foot on the brake while increasing the rpms, or bumper against a wall or tree. Anything so you can see if the engine is making funny noises under load without the trans turning. This being a fluid drive, you can do that without stalling.

No funny noises, this was done by the mechanic.

[Rider145]

when is the last time the transmission was serviced? But I think it is your fan,they can make alot of noise.

That is a good point, I don't think the transmission was serviced, to be honest, I'm not sure how to do that. I have been reading the maintenance tips section and have discovered (on screen anyway) that the torque converter access is under the floor mat?

[Rider145]

Does this noise vary on the road with changing vehicle speed? Changing load?

Different gear?

No, pretty much from 1st to 3rd, same "working" noises. As well, the pickup from 3rd from a full stop is extremely slow, a snail almost beat me on the take off

[Rider145]

Raise the rear of the vehicle on jack stands, or some other solid support.

Run the vehicle in gear and attempt to isolate the noise.

Are you thinking differentials?

[aero3113]

Could service the rear end also

[Rider145]

This would allow you to check everything.

Some noises can come from the parking brake.

Or noise from the universals, although I would suspect that the mechanic checked that.

I'll ask him about the universals. I recently hand the parking brake band re-lined and it is not grabbing while running.

[Rider145]

Could service the rear end also

I'll put that on my list. It is getting too cold now for any driving or working on it. These Canadian winters can be unforgivingly cold I am trying to amass parts for next spring when he will be in his glory for working on my car. I am thinking of getting down to the grind and starting to do some of this myself, but not being mechanically inclined, I'm worried i might break something beyond repair.........

[Rider145]

Wheel bearing.

Sedan? Have someone (or you) sit in the back (Edit: or in the trunk) while the vehicle is being driven. Move from one side to the other to determine if the sound is left, right, forward, rearward.............

Can the wheel bearings make it sound as if the engine is working?

[JIPJOBXX]

I have a fluild drive in my Dodge and they are slow when you start out in 3rd, especially if you are going up a grade.

Don't let this old type of automatic scare you as its really simple. I will attach a few pictures of what this unit looks like and how it works. I would check to see if the fluid drive coupler is full and if not maybe replace the oil in the drive unit itself with fresh oil (Tractor oil). It can be bought at a good car parts store by the gallon and it will take about a gallon or so to fill this unit back up.

[Rider145]

I have a fluild drive in my Dodge and they are slow when you start out in 3rd, especially if you are going up a grade.

Don't let this old type of automatic scare you as its really simple. I will attach a few pictures of what this unit looks like and how it works. I would check to see if the fluid drive coupler is full and if not maybe replace the oil in the drive unit itself with fresh oil (Tractor oil). It can be bought at a good car parts store by the gallon and it will take about a gallon or so to fill this unit back up.

Any type of tractor oil?

[Rider145]

Probably not, just throwing out suggestions as we can't hear what is happening.

May be no problem at all.

Trans should not sound like the engine working.

guess I misunderstood the noise idea.

Trans should not load the engine down enough to be a problem.

Mine taking off in 3rd is working, but not anything that causes concern. Fluid coupling transfers the force and work of the engine lessens as speed builds.

Hmmm...if not transmission, then what would make it sound as if working under load?

[Rider145]

If your fluid was low, you would likely have difficulty moving. As seen in Jon's pics the fluid transfers the force. If low, less burden would be placed on the engine, as there would be less resistance.

No difficulty moving, she goes pretty good using the proper gears.

I have had her at 63 mph on the highway...no shakes nor shimmies...had the kingpins and tie-rod ends replaced

[Rider145]

These engines are working. that is a lot of steel you are moving around.

How much driving? Are the brakes dragging at all?

80W-90 gear lube would be used in the trans. Same in diffy.

And as Jon said, a light weight oil in the fluid drive.

Brakes not dragging at all, had front drums machined and in desperate need of a right rear drum. The previous mechanic decided (he did not know they came attached) to take the hub off the drum. When it was put back together, it is out of round by 1/4". Cannot turn that much. The brakes "pulsates" and makes a hollow sound when the brakes are applied.

Only weekend driving, with the odd day here and there. No more than 200 miles per month.

Thanks for the tip on the oil.

[Rider145]

Two plugs on the right side of the trans. Lower is the drain. Upper is the fill.

Fill to where you can stick your pinky finger (or whatever finger fits) in the hole to the first joint, and touch the lube.

I'll show this picture to my mechanic...the good one...

[JIPJOBXX]

Napa Auto Parts Has The Correct Tractor Oil-jon

[Don Coatney]

Fluid Drive

Fluid Drive was a $25.00 option available on the D24. Besides the cool looking Fluid Drive script on your rear bumper, what did you get ? Fluid Drive is a torque converter, that is, it converts engine torque and transfers it to the transmission via a fluid medium. The idea is simple. Imagine two electric fans facing each other. If you turn on one fan the air pressure created will cause the blades of the facing fan to spin. In this example, the fluid medium is air. The Dodge Fluid Drive works in a similar manner. The torque converter coupling is bolted to the flywheel. Inside the torque converter coupling are two "fans" facing each one another. The entire torque converter is filled with a special fluid. As the engine turns one set of fan blades (called vanes) is driven, forcing the fluid against the vanes of the facing unit. This causes that unit to turn which drives a standard clutch and pressure plate assembly. The power is then transmitted down the drivetrain to the rear wheels just like the standard drivetrain.

The advantage of Fluid Drive is there is no direct mechanical connection between the engine and drive train. This translates into a very smooth power transfer and resulting smooth ride. It also provides some unique and interesting features. For example, to shift into gear you would put the clutch in just like a regular three speed. However if you are idling at a traffic light you can let the clutch out and the car won’t stall ! That’s because at idle not enough energy is being transferred from the front vanes to the rear vanes. As you step on the gas however, the pressure increases and the rear vanes start to spin, transferring energy to the drive train. You would then shift gears like a normal three speed. You can also start in any gear. For example, you could start in third, even though the acceleration would be rather slow. In some ways, Fluid Drive is like a very simple automatic transmission.

Th units are essentially maintenance free. The only service requirement is to maintain the correct level of fluid in the torque converter coupling. A special access port is located on the passenger side floorboard on the side of the transmission hump. Remove the access door and bell housing cap. Turn the engine over until the filler bolt lines up. It is a good idea to stuff a rag around the opening so you can’t drop the filler bolt in the flywheel housing. The service manual recommends using a magnetic socket for the same reason. Be very careful as you fill the unit. Any spillage will always find it’s way to your clutch disk ! After filling, make sure the filler bolt is secure with no leakage.

The factory fluid was a Mopar #10 Fluid Drive fluid. Unfortunately this is no longer available. The original fluid was an ISO 32 (10W) with an anti wear additive and an anti foam additive which was needed to break up the foam which develops as the vanes turn in the torque converter (Fluid Drive Coupling). The non-foaming characteristics is critical, because if air bubbles form the fluid will compress and power can not be transferred. Today, two replacement fluids are readily available. Automatic transmission fluid (ATF) is an ISO 32 fluid. However DEXRON ATF contains a seal swell additive which works fine for modern seals but will swell old seals in Fluid Drives too much. This may cause them to fail. An alternative ATF fluid is Ford Type F fluid. It does not contain the seal swell additive.

The best replacement is Universal Tractor Fluid #134. This is an ISO 32 fluid with all the properties of an automatic transmission fluid for wear, heat dissipation, and anti foam. Surpassingly my local NAPA store stocks it in 1 and 5 gallon quantities, so you should be able to fine it locally without much trouble. Obviously if you have a farm/tractor supply outlet nearby they will have it. Universal Tractor Fluid #134 has other positive characteristics including added shear strength for moving bevel cut gears under high loads similar to what is found in the old Fluid Drive transmissions. Many of today’s modern manual transmissions use the #134 fluid, not a gear lube, as the factory fill. If you have any experience using #134 to replace transmission gear lube, it would be interesting to hear about your results.

The biggest repair problem with Fluid Drive is seal leakage where the transmission input shaft mates into the housing. Any leakage will quickly ruin the clutch disk. Repair kits are available but difficult to find. So are experienced repair personnel. Using the correct replacement fluid can go a long way in extending the service life of your unit. Otherwise the units are factory sealed. Carburetors used on Fluid Drive cars are different than the non Fluid Drive models. The Fluid Drive adds some drag on the engine and a dashpot is used to slow throttle closing, thus preventing engine stalling. The adjustment of the dashpot and replacement of Fluid Drive seals are addressed in detail in the factory service manual. Lastly the same manual 3 speed transmission (Type C) is used on both Fluid and non Fluid Drive applications with one part change. The Fluid Drive transmission has a slightly longer input shaft to accommodate the greater depth of the coupling. The shafts can easily be replaced making a standard 3 speed into a fluid drive version and vice versa.

[48mirage]

A couple of years ago I went into my local NAPA looking for the oil for my fluid drive. The kid didn't know what the 134 meant. I did find on the shelf a Valvoline Universal Tractor Fluid. On the back of the jug it listed the oils it would replace. There were at least a couple of them that had the 134 number imbedded in the part number so that is what I am using. It has been a year and a half and 5000 miles with no problems. In fact I could feel the difference in performance immediately. FYI it took close to 2 gallons to fill the fluid drive unit.

[JIPJOBXX]

I have a promotional movie that was put out by Dodge to sell there fluid drive cars made back in 1946. It runs around 10 minutes and it shows a guy trying to train a young girl on how to shift a manual transmission. Well after a few minutes and many restarts of the car the gal get upset and the guy gets mad also. So they part but in the next sceen a young stud come by and introduces the girl to the new Dodge Fluid drive car. He shows her how easy it is to drive the car by just putting it in third gear and not having to shift threw the gears. Fun old short promo movie and it also go into after she feels good about being able to drive a car but also how the fluid drive works.

Of course the movie is all black and white and the second guy gets the girl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why to go Dodge!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Captain Neon]

I never tried to teach a girl how to use a stick shift. It was more fun showing them how to shoot pool or throw a football.

[Plymouthy Adams]

actually I thought teaching them to ride a motorcycle was more fun..you sat behind them..of course you know you had to hold on somehow, relatively safe as they could not let go of the handlebars....beats Kramer's move of stopping short....!!!!!

[Frank Elder]

Did'nt he do that by accident with george's mom in the car?