Spring Shackle revisited

[Fernando Mendes]

Dan,I understood that you were asking about this.I think could help you with this pic.

[chipsb3b]

Thanks for the picture.

What you've outlined in blue are the u-shaped shackles used at the rear of each rear spring. There are 2 threaded bushings/sleeves on each shackle, 4 in total on the two rear shackles. One of these threaded bushings has a left hand (backwards) thread.

So the question is - - - where does this left hand threaded bushing go. I believe based on the Forum info. that it is located at the rear of the left (driver's side) spring. But I'd like to confirm this. I've already assembled my rear springs/rear axle/shocks, etc. and before I start on the assembly of the bed I would like to make sure of my rear shackle situation.

Again thanks for your efforts.

Chip Sestok

e-mail: sestokfam@sbcglobal.net

phone: 1-248-642-7247

[Fernando Mendes]

Thanks for the picture.

What you've outlined in blue are the u-shaped shackles used at the rear of each rear spring. There are 2 threaded bushings/sleeves on each shackle, 4 in total on the two rear shackles. One of these threaded bushings has a left hand (backwards) thread.

So the question is - - - where does this left hand threaded bushing go. I believe based on the Forum info. that it is located at the rear of the left (driver's side) spring. But I'd like to confirm this. I've already assembled my rear springs/rear axle/shocks, etc. and before I start on the assembly of the bed I would like to make sure of my rear shackle situation.

Again thanks for your efforts.

Chip Sestok

e-mail: sestokfam@sbcglobal.net

phone: 1-248-642-7247

Yes Chip,you're right.It is located at the rear of the left (driver's side) spring.But it is located too at the rear of the right (passenger side) spring.I have a pic that shows this right side.

[Fernando Mendes]

Chip,for awhile I only have this pic(right hand side).You can see the front spring shackle.

[Fernando Mendes]

""I believe based on the Forum info. that it is located at the rear of the left (driver's side) spring. But I'd like to confirm this.""(Chipsb3b)

Chip,you can confirm the left front shackle in pic number 1968,from this forum in April,18 2007,from Dennis MN,subject:Engine Compartment Detailing.Regards.

[chipsb3b]

Thanks for your comments.

I checked with the Eaton Detroit Spring Inc., they indicated that the left hand threaded bushing should be located at the rear of the driver's side (left) spring.

There is only one left hand threaded bushing for the rear shackles so I had to figure out where to locate it.

Again thanks for your comments.

Chip Sestok

[Fernando Mendes]

LH threaded shackle bushings only on rear of the left front(driver side) and rear of the right rear(passenger side) in diagonally-always in lower or spring eyes.

[HanksB3B]

The more I read this thread, the more confused I become. Excuse me if I'm wrong be the last two posts seem contradictory.

On the one hand, Chip gets conformation from Eaton Detroit Spring that there is only one left hand threaded shackle and it should be located at the rear of the driver's side spring.

On the other hand, Fernando is saying that there are LH threaded shackle bushings on rear of the left front spring and on the rear of the dight rear spring. (sorry Fernando, I understand it, but "the diagonally-always in lower or spring eyes" just adds confusion)

A point of consideration should be that who knows what knucklehead worked on our trucks before we owned them. As chief knucklehead of my truck, I somehow managed to get one of each of the left-handed brake drums on either side of my truck (so I guess I'll be the guinea pig that confirms that whoever designed the left-hand, right hand wheel bolts overlooked the fact that it didn't make difference and that sixty years after his design, people wanting to change from lug bolts to lug nuts would be for the most part S.O.L..

All humor aside, can someone please document the spring shackle dilema something like as follows:

1951 B3B, etc., etc.

Driver Front Spring

Front Pin

Rear U Shackle @ Frame (RH thread)

Rear U Shackle @ Spring (LH thread)

Passenger Front

Rear U Shackle @ Frame (RH thread)

Rear U Shackle @ Spring (RH thread)

Driver Rear

Front Pin

Rear U Shackle @ Frame (RH thread)

Rear U Shackle @ Spring (LH thread)

Passenger Rear

Rear U Shackle @ Frame (RH thread)

Rear U Shackle @ Spring (RH thread)

Does this make sense?

P.S. Also does what Tod wrote, hold true for our trucks.

The 1936-42 Plymouth service manual calls for "place a 7/8 inch gauge between the spring shackle and the frame side rail and between the end of the spring and spring shackle. Install the shackle bushing and remove the gauge." I imagine that the dimensions are probably pretty close on your truck to the older passenger cars. By the way the service manual continues: "CAUTION The lower leg of the left rear spring shackle has left hand threads. This is indicated by the notches in the lower shackle bushing (7, fig 6)."

Thanks,

Hank

Edited November 1, 2010 by HanksB3B

[Dave72dt]

I look at it this way. All 4 springs are hung from a pin at the front and shackles at the rear. Since it would make sense that the front shackles should work the same as the rear, a left threaded bushing should go in the same place on front and rear springs, so front spring-Driver lower rear, rear spring - Driver lower rear. I see NAPA carries 4 different shackle kits, 1 for each corner for my B3B. Is a B1 or B2 different and is there a serial num break to make it more confusing. What's in the kits assuming they are packaged correctly? The shackle offsets mean they can only go in one way and keep the spring aligned.

[ggdad1951]

1951 B-3-D

Driver Front Spring

Front Pin

Rear U Shackle @ Frame (RH thread)

Rear U Shackle @ Spring (LH thread)

Passenger Front

Rear U Shackle @ Frame (RH thread)

Rear U Shackle @ Spring (RH thread)

Rear

Shackle is a large casting and not threaded, it uses pins w/ cross bolts.

[HanksB3B]

1951 B-3-D

Driver Front Spring

Front Pin

Rear U Shackle @ Frame (RH thread)

Rear U Shackle @ Spring (LH thread)

Passenger Front

Rear U Shackle @ Frame (RH thread)

Rear U Shackle @ Spring (RH thread)

Rear

Shackle is a large casting and not threaded, it uses pins w/ cross bolts.

I'm pretty sure it is not correct for a B3B

Still ,

Hank

[Fernando Mendes]

Hank,excuse me,I was travelling today and saw your message now wanting to know too about this subject.I too stayed many weeks looking for and nobody gave me a answer about this that I was knowing to learn.I say to you read the comments in messages "FRONT SPRING SHACKLE"(#17,#21 and #23) and still message "SHACKLE REBUILD"(#8).It is only I can do for you.Regards.

[Merle Coggins]

Do these pages from my parts manual help with the confusion?

[48Dodger]

Working a detailed video of a 1948 stock suspension set-up. I'm trying to demonstrate/address a couple of common questions that come up like the leaf spring orientation, LH threads, center link condition, etc....I have two frames with suspension sitting in front of my shop without sheet metal...so thought I'd take advantage of that. might be done in another week.

48D

[Fernando Mendes]

Merle, I red these pages days ago when I was looking for in my manual and didn't understand.Is these pages in according with my conclusion or not? I only want is the truth,the correct position of the shackles for my B3-B.

[Dave72dt]

Those pages tell me there are 4 different shackle/bushing kits for a B3B but does not say where or if left threaded.

[Fernando Mendes]

Do these pages from my parts manual help with the confusion?

This pages that I looked again only say: "B3-B.....SHACKLE....RIGHT(1)...and LEFT(1).Continues the confusion MERLE.We need your help AGAIN.

[Fernando Mendes]

Driver Front Left Spring

Rear U Shackle @ Frame (RH thread)

Rear U Shackle @ Spring (LH thread)

Driver Rear Left Spring

Rear U Shackle @ Frame (RH thread)

Rear U Shackle @ Spring (RH thread)

Passenger Front Right Spring

Rear U Shackle @ Frame (RH thread)

Rear U Shackle @ Spring (RH thread)

Passenger Rear Right Spring

Rear U Shackle @ Frame (RH thread)

Rear U Shackle @ Spring (LH thread)

To me is like this.Did you think no?

I was looking yesterday in my Jeep Willys MB 1942 and those were wronged position.I will change them according its TM10-1513 from may,15th 1942.In my B3-B too.

[HanksB3B]

I may be wrong but (like the wheel lug bolts) I still think all the LH threads would be all be on the drivers side, Rear U Shackle@Spring. Probably, (like the wheel lug bolts) there is no mechanical advantage, but someone thought so back in the day. Any PE's out there?

Driver Front Left Spring

Rear U Shackle @ Frame (RH thread)

Rear U Shackle @ Spring (LH thread)

Driver Rear Left Spring

Rear U Shackle @ Frame (RH thread)

Rear U Shackle @ Spring (LH thread)

Passenger Front Right Spring

Rear U Shackle @ Frame (RH thread)

Rear U Shackle @ Spring (RH thread)

Passenger Rear Right Spring

Rear U Shackle @ Frame (RH thread)

Rear U Shackle @ Spring (RH thread)

"As you look at the spring eye, from the side you want to install the bushing from, it will curl either clockwise or CCW. The bushing turns the opposite direction of the spring eye."

Hank

Edited November 3, 2010 by HanksB3B

[ggdad1951]

not a PE, but I am a certified(able) engineer. It stands to reason if the front shackle on a side is set up a certain way the rear shackle would follow the same logic for that side.

[Fernando Mendes]

Hank,today I jacked up my Willys Jeep MB 1942 frame and inverted the passenger rear right shackle according its TM10-1513 maintenance manual.

Did you read the #'s I send to you?

[Fernando Mendes]

by Sean Collins » Sun Aug 20, 2006 6:16 am

Lew:

Has anyone ever explained why they do it this way?

As Warwick said, it was purportedly done to make it easier to install.

As you look at the spring eye, from the side you want to install the bushing from, it will curl either clockwise or CCW. The bushing turns the opposite direction to the spring eye.

Friction from turning the bushing the opposite direction, makes the eye open up, easing installation. If you turn the bushing the same direction, the eye wants to close down and grip the bushing tighter.

So if your spring eye is CW, it takes a left thread bushing. If CCW, it takes a right thread bushing.

This crude drawing illustrates. Arrows are the bushing thread direction.

At some point in time, Willys decided it wasn't necessary, and changed to all right hand threads.

If you're installing new springs, you can use all right hand thread bushings.

If you're installing new bushing in old springs, the old springs will have a thread spiral worn into the spring eyes. You should use the same thread as the old bushings.

Sean

From g503.com (WILLYS Jeep site)

[HanksB3B]

Hank,today I jacked up my Willys Jeep MB 1942 frame and inverted the passenger rear right shackle according its TM10-1513 maintenance manual.

Did you read the #'s I send to you?

What #s, how did you send them and is thew TM10-1513 manual (or the pages of importance) posted here is this thread?

Fernando what about Claudio. Is that the front or rear spring that you are saying is turned up instead of down. (Did you remove that post? I can't find it)

Hank

[Fernando Mendes]

This figure was in Sean message from Willys jeep site (g503.com)

[HanksB3B]

I now declare post #44 correct (at least for the B3B). Any nay sayers out there ?

Hank