keithb7

Ok I’m not holding back any more. Lol. I’m a fool to tear into this tranny. Please tell me if you will, @Dodgeb4ya, what is your history with these trannies? You appear ro be this site’s resident technical expert on them. You clearly have been inside more than a couple! Why? Career or hobby?

Great pics Dodge. Yours is much cleaner than my example. I have more Q’s. Ok to keep hammering you with questions? This thread has evolved into a discussion between you and I. Should I carry on here or send you a personal message?

Thanks @Dodgeb4ya second gear was the trickiest to wrap my head around. Engine power goes thru third mainshaft, down to countershaft, then is again reduced again thru 1st gear set. Wow. Add to that the over running set on the countershaft is engaged, allowing engine braking. Fascinating stuff. I’ve sure learned a ton about this tranny. By doing research I am reminded that several sources are best. Not all the info and little details are covered in one book or Master Tech video. I have 3 different factory service manuals, a Motors manual plus a factory parts book. I find myself flipping through them all.

Wait a cotton pickin minute. It just hit me. 2nd and and 4th gear lock up the freewheel clutch in the mainshaft. So 2nd and 4th help hold back the car on a hill. Not 1st or 3rd. Because as soon as you lift your foot off the gas to slow down on a hill, in either 1st or 3rd gear the tranny will shift into direct speed range! I had it mixed up. I get it now. Had to walk away and clear my head. So the high or low range gear chosen will have power going through it, via the locked up counter shaft. Eureka! These Chrysler engineers really has this system figured out well. This simple tranny is tough, robust and is very well designed. Three cheers for the MOPAR engineering department.

Lots of reading and studying the transmission, trying to truly understand it's design and function. It is a rare treat to have a spare real example to took at the poke around. Yet my car is still drivable. I pulled the rear housing assembly out. Things are really starting to sink-in now. I have one question for the transmission experts. I can't seem to wrap my head around one thing. Maybe Mr. @Dodgeb4ya, who has been helpful so far can explain. When the operator selects either 1st (low range) or 3rd (high range), once a certain ground speed it met, the governor switch opens up. The solenoid is now de-activated and the ball is pushed off it's seat by a spring. Pressurized oil now fills the back side of the enclosed piston, and it moves forward. This movement engages the shift fork on the direct speed clutch ring. Then the power from the engine, goes straight into the main shaft, and straight through, out the rear of the transmission. This is called direct speed range. Also at this point the countershaft overrunning gear is dis-engaged and the transmission countershaft is freewheeling. What this means to the driver is, the car is not held back on a downhill slope by the engine and transmission. The car will continue to travel down the hill faster and faster without any compression braking from the engine, if at idle. Am I right so far? For those wondering, my understanding is the tranny does lock and help control downhill speed in 1st and 3rd only. I seem to recall this, from driving my car. However now I am questioning my memory. LOL I need to go drive it again now. From what I can understand, when the tranny is in direct drive mode the counter shaft is totally free wheeling. If that is so, what is the gear ratio of direct drive? In either high or low range? What gears are engaged and how are the speeds controlled? If the counter shaft it freewheeling, I can't seem to understand how the selected gear, range (2nd or 4th now) has the power running through it. The whole mainshaft is turning now. Locked up to the input shaft. Any help appreciated. Thanks, Keith

Man, that was stubborn. Finally got the park brake assy off. Everything was rusted bad. Shoes were even somehow frozen to the drum. Mice and bugs had settled in there at some point it seems. Been a loooong time since the park brake has seen the light of day. My larger wheel drum puller got it done. Not easily, as I had to adapt various spacers to it. The good news is the tranny now turns freely in high & low range as well as reverse. All seem to function properly. The rear housing section will be coming off next.

Not this one. It's stubborn. I will try backing off the manual adjuster next to be sure the shoes are fully released. If still no go, I will try a puller.

Thx Dodge. Yes I saw that in my shop manual. Was going to take it as it comes and see what I can pull off with some ingenuity. We’ll see. Maybe I will become stymied.

I have been poking around in manuals and studying this M6 transmission. Learning how it actually works. Hydraulic actuated. Pretty neat I must admit. Those Chrysler engineers were pretty advanced in my opinion. For the mid-40’s when this was designed. In my opinion it seems to have relatively few moving parts for an average auto transmission. I suppose these are not quite average mind you. I am going to take this spare tranny apart and study it further. Too interesting for me. I really want to get in there and learn. I cannot contain myself. It is siezed up anyway. I am attempting to pull the park brake drum off. I need a puller. Will try my wheel drum puller this weekend, but may be too big. My other pullers including my slide hammer adaptors are too big as well. I’ll keep updating the thread if there is any interest in following along. I can post pics to keep it interesting.

Its cool but asde from the basic valve stuff, like possibly a stuck open or chunk missing, I am not sure I see much value in the pics. The valve seat surface and valve face wear pattern do not appear to show great. Those are key areas in my opinion. Should those areas not appear a little cleaner and shiny? I thought mine were when I took my engine apart. If a valve is stuck open or a chunk is missing a simple compression test will suffice. No? I was hearing “ticking exhaust manifold” type sounds when I had a valve stuck open. Then zero psi with a compression test. Maybe the camera would show that. Just not sure its needed at that point. Can this poor sealing surface be seen with the camera?

Whats the history on the wheel bearings and diff service?

My 1953 Windsor is in the garage for the winter once again. I love working on it and there is no better time than winter up here in Canada, to get at it. I have been babysitting a rear engine oil leak. I am pretty sure it is the rear crank seal. There are also send & return oil passages from the block to the torque converter and back. Could be leaking there too I suppose. Yes I have the 13 qt oil change, engine fed torque converter system. M6 transmission. I am reviewing my original 53 Chrysler manual, looking at the engine pull instructions. It does not tell me to drop the tranny first. I thought I had read in a few different threads somewhere on the net, that the tranny should be pulled first. Should I be dropping the tranny first? I am ok with doing that. I don't have a full car lift,. I comfortable working under it and dropping the tranny I think. The M6 tranny is fairly heavy. I assume my strapping son and I can lift it back into place upon reassembly. If I pull the tranny, I believe the torque and clutch assemblies and housings stay on the engine. Correct? I'll use an engine hoist to lift those 3 components out together & assembled I suppose. I'll pull them off once the assembly is out, and bolt the block to an engine stand. How far I'll get into this, God only know at this point. Flip it over pull the pan. Check bearing clearances. Maybe re-ring it! Lol. I know I have 2 valve guides that are worn beyond spec. Thinking I should pull the head, measure all guides and replace worn ones. May all? I do suck in some engine oil and burn it when coasting down long hills. Measure crank thrust. Not sure I want to do a full rebuild with block machining. The engine makes about 100 psi average compression. If I clean up the leaks, maybe do the front crank seal too and cover gasket, while I have it out...I could very likely get another 10 or more years from the engine. I did a valve grind and new valves summer of 2017. That was a big improvement. Pull the water pump and check the water distribution tube? See where that takes me. Re-seal and re-gasket the tranny while it is out. Measure clutch disc and replace pressure plate springs and throw out bearing? Inspect the park brake. My Motors manual says that unless you have specialized clutch tooling, to replace the pressure plate assy with another complete unit. It claims the friction disc can more easily be changed. Sounds like I will likely get into many, many things. Not sure. I like to plan my jobs ahead of ripping and tearing. Just thinking out loud here I guess. Your comments and experience are welcome as I read through all the manuals I have, (4). My goal is get a good grasp on the tasks I may tackle and the required tooling. As she lays now in the car:

I stumbled across this You Tube documentary. Likely due to clicking on various vintage car links. This particular movie gave me some great insight into the various business and social decisions made by Henry Ford. It seems he was quite a hard business man. Having his fingers in so much. The details of the stresses put upon the average assembly line worker was a great reminder of how tough things were. Then the depression hit. Oh my. I have heard so much about those hard times. The Dirty Thirties. I have read about it. Yet somehow my sources failed to capture the details of everyday people as taught here. Many of us will never truly know hardship like this. This was worth 51 minutes of my time. https://youtu.be/VjH4pCatx0I

I got under my ‘53 Windsor today with a flashlight. The housing number stamp on mine is the same at 1325567 although “-7” compared to “-5” on the one I was given. Likely a production date code I suspect. Stamped into the the shiny flat machined surface, where this one above reads “C56”. Mine indeed reads “C60” which is the engineering code for my 1953 Windsor. This has been a fun exercise. Further comparing and developments will be shelved until I have my Windsor tranny out sometime. Not 100% sure when that will be. I am thinking of sealing up a few oil leaks this winter. We’ll see. Maybe more to come at that time. Thanks Dodgeb4ya.

@Dodgeb4ya this one has the pin synchronizers. Does the stamped C56 imply it was originally built for and installed in a V8 NY’r? Are you aware of any differences in the transmission mounting dimensions for the NY’r compared to my Windsor L6 engine? I am aware that the V8 had the sump type torque converter with cooler. My L6 has the engine-fed torque converter. Seems to me that this tranny may be a good fit for my Windsor. Powertrain gear ratio differences between the L6 and V8, if both have T.C. seem to be at the differential.

Hi folks, I recently was given a free Mopar transmission. It sure looks like the one in my '53 Windsor Deluxe (C60 car model). Similar features and appearance. I figured, what a great opportunity to get in there and learn about the transmission found many of our cars here. Worst case scenario it does not fit my car, but I still can learn a ton from taking it apart and studying it. There are no local night school courses offered here on "Transmission Rebuilding for post war Chrsylers" . The tranny appears to have been oil free for decades. Governor, solenoid and backup switch are present, so bonus spare parts! Looking in at the gears they appear to in be quite good shape. I see "pin type synchronizers" on the main shaft. I see mention of an M6 transmission in my manuals. However this tranny has "K6" stamped on it. In one 1953 Chrysler shop manual I have, this transmission called the Simplimatic. The transmission section header reads: D44, S16, S18, C56, C58, C60 model cars. Another Chrysler manual from 1953 calls it the Fluid-Matic transmission. This book covers C60, C56, C58, C59 model cars. In my 53/54 parts book it calls the tranny a Presto-Matic transmission with Pin Type Synchronizer. This book covers C56, C58, C59, C60, C62, C63, C64, C66 and several more models. You can understand my confusion here. Looking closely at the parts listed in my parts book for this transmission, I see many, many internal parts are shared among all these semi-auto M6 transmissions, for all model year 1953/54 cars. First/reverse and second appear the same. V8 or L6 engine. The main difference appears to be third and fourth gear. It depends whether or not he car has a true torque convertor, or a regular fluid drive, to ID the right gear part number. Or a pin-type synchronizer. Maybe when I get this tranny apart I can find part numbers on the actual gears, then I can confirm if this tranny came out of a true torque converter equipped car? If it was a T.C. equipped car, I may have a good match here for my 53 Windsor is seems! I cleaned up whatever markings I could find to try and ID it. Your help is appreciated. Here are some pics and actual legible text: Main housing: 1325567-5 K6 Output end housing is marked 1317860. I did find this part number in my 1953/54 parts book. labeled as "Transmission case extension". So that definitely fits my 53. Also marked C56 11752. C56 I believe is Chrysler engineering code for 1953 New Yorker. Which has a V8. Am I right to assume this is the tranny, offered for the V8 equipped 1953 New Yorker? Thanks for your comments and sharing your knowledge. = Keith Not sure what this yellow paint below reads. Maybe "286"? Or "236"?

Up here in Canada....All I see is made in China junk. They don't last the weather. A good flatulence event will knock most down. There are some higher quality ones that should be better. I am skeptical and have not tried one. I'd be inclined to put together something at least a little more semi-permanent. You get what you pay for.

Those do look great. Glad to hear about your experience with ECI. I keep threatening to do this with my 53. Perhaps I will when the current front shoes are worn out.

31 years of driving so far. Have done countless oil changes in every vehicle I have ever owned. Add my wife's, and both of my son's cars. Add my mother-in-law's cars... That is a lot of oil changes. So far.. I have no intention of paying someone any time soon, to do a half-a**'d job of it for me. I taught my sons how to do things right themselves, and pocket the savings. It adds up to a lot of money over the decades. I enjoy the chance to get under my car and inspect things. Leaks, ball joint wear, tires, all that stuff and more. Then I plan to tackle those items that need addressing. Most memorable oil change? My 1953 Fluid Torque Drive, 265 motor. The torque is engine oil fed. Every oil change I have to line up the torque drain plug and drain it too. The entire change take 13 quarts if I recall. 2nd most memorable? When my oldest son was ready to tackle his own oil changes alone. What a mess he made! LOL. Dirty and clean oil all over the place. He said I made it look easy. Pouring it in the fill spout, lining up the drain pan. Pulling the plug and not getting oil on me. I laughed when he spun off his filter and carried from the driveway into the garage. Open side down. He was cleaning up his mess for some time after the service was complete. Recent oil changes in my "new to me" 3/4T diesel upp'd the game. Black dirty oil. Big drain plans. Bigger wrenches. Generally more grunting on bigger vehicles. I enjoy the new challenges and learning. I just may well be happiest when I have completed my own vehicle repairs, folded my money in half, and put it back in my pocket. How very satisfying it is.

Thanks @wayfarer. I have been doing internet research, studying the service manual, and doing a fair bit of required maintenance in the past couple of months. I serviced & re-sealed the rear diff, tranny oil, engine oil & filter, front diff as well as pinion seal. I bought an ISSPRO fuel electronic fuel pressure gauge to install. That way I can watch fuel pressure off the lift pump slowly diminish. Then address the the lift pump before it takes out the VP44 hopefully. My RF outer axle seal is leaking, I will get to that soon. I love the power and durability of these 2500 Dodge trucks. Mine is quite comfortable too. My dash is not cracked. I will keep an eye on the track bar and take your advice when it comes time to replace it.

Out for a fall cruise today. Was a beautiful day. Lots of folks approached me to discuss my car. One of my favourite stops is the gas station. I doddle there checking the oil. Polishing the glass. It seems every single time, I get folks approaching me there. I like it there for some reason. Feels kinda at home there at the gas station, me doing my own self-serve checks. I drove up past my house to snap this pic. Scary as heck leaving the car on a hill. I put the wheel chock in place and set the park brake. But...with no transmission park feature, if she gets rolling there is no stopping her. Especially if I am watching from across the road. Lol.

If anyone can tell me how to remove the centre caps that’d be great! Thanks.

I brought these home yesterday.

LOL. No far from it. My thermostat stays at 70 F these days. Gas has gotten a lot more expensive. Also now our government has tagged on Carbon Tax to the gas bill. Another tax scam. See? There are many reasons I miss my wood heat source. @Worden18 we too have in floor heating. It is awesome. I love it. My problem is the fuel source is natural gas. I have no option to earn free fuel.