Alternative to Carter/Weber from Langdon's

[jd52cranbrook]

Hi all,

I want to get smaller jets for my dual Carter/Weber's I got with the Langdons dual intake set up. Searched through Car Quest with no luck.

Then contacted Tom himself, he does not have any, also does not know where to get them, or why I would even want them for that matter. In all his years of selling these, he never has a request for smaller jets.

Id like to get smaller jets, or swap carbs. Can anyone point me in the right direction please?

Thanks in advance,

JD

[martybose]

Hi all,

I want to get smaller jets for my dual Carter/Weber's I got with the Langdons dual intake set up. Searched through Car Quest with no luck.

Then contacted Tom himself, he does not have any, also does not know where to get them, or why I would even want them for that matter. In all his years of selling these, he never has a request for smaller jets.

Id like to get smaller jets, or swap carbs. Can anyone point me in the right direction please?

Thanks in advance,

JD

Tom's got a short memory, since I had the same discussion with him about a year ago. If memory serves, I found someone who could supply different jets, but I don't remember who. I'll dig through my notes and see if I can find it.

Marty

[Powerhouse]

just curious but why would ya want smaller jets? I'm running a single one of those carbs and it runs great...

[greg g]

Your other option is to silver solder the current jets closed, and redrill them in the size you think you want. You will need to buy a drill index of the small pin vise drills.

Are you talking primary or secondary jets? If you think the secodaries are larger than needed, you can replace them with the same size as the primaries.

Also you might want to check the webber carb site as they might have jets in the size you are looking for.

[jd52cranbrook]

Thanks Marty, if you find it I'd like to know.

Powerhouse, my car ran fine with a single carb also, but it is a dual carb intake manifold. My engine developed a bad knock at about 17K miles. Indications that I want to believe show it was getting too much fuel. That may not be why it developed the knock, but it is something I want to address before getting back on the road. As a thread read on the hamb site awhile back, it always smelled rich to me.

Greg, thanks for advise. I am not that skilled to fill and re drill I don't think. But the web site may be the ticket.

JD

[greg g]

an overly rich mixture will lead to unburned fuel being forced past the rings. The oil will smell like gas if this is your symptom. Is the knock your talking about spark knock (pinging) If so it could be more related to timing and advance issues. What do your spark plugs look like???

If you are talking a crankcase knock you probably have more problems than a rich mixture.

[jd52cranbrook]

I always smelt fuel, but I never can rely on my nose. I pulled the motor and tore it down. The cylinder walls were washed of the honing marks for one thing. The knock was not pinging,, it was more like a clapping sound almost. and loud at the end, hence the tear down.

One thing, I found a broken alternator mount, which could have been the noise. But I did pull the belts before breaking it down, and the noise was still there. But it very well could have been it still, as it may have been vibrating against the block. I used the same location as the original generator for the mount.

In any case;

The oil would get black to quick to me after changing. It would smell to me, but like I said, my nose is suspect. My builder stands by his diagnosis of to much fuel. I just want to be safe than sorry.

Upon tear down, he found two wrist pin bushings that were suspect but not convincing to him as being the problem. The rod and main bearings were replaced by me at first to no avail. He found some silicone in pan from gasket material I made for the timing chain cover, as I use two bolt locations for the AC pump bracket. Not a good sign. The crank is getting re ground. (my fault, I replaced the oil pan when I did the bearings, and not sure I got it clean enough), as there was grooves in a few journals.

He is doing the motor for parts cost only to me. Which will be cam, crank and rod bearings, gasket set, and a oil pump. Not that bad a deal to assure my engine is OK.

Oh and I did have the bracket welded. We shall see.

But I want the smaller jets to ease my mind.

[Don Coatney]

What are you using for an air cleaner on these carburetors? And as Greg asked how did your spark plugs look?

[jd52cranbrook]

Plugs looked dark gray to black I would say. And if I remember, wet, it has been a while.

I did adjust timing, and swapped out distributors, but both were HEI.

I am using a K & N Filter.

No luck on the web as yet. I see these were also called Motorcraft Carbs 740.

If you find that source Marty, i would appreciate it.

[jd52cranbrook]

Was over at the HAMB site. The more I read the more confused I get without knowing more.

Would really just like a source for smaller jets. Like I said, that may or may not have been the cause. But I would really like to run smaller.

[claybill]

WELL WHEN YOU AHVE YOUR MIND MADE UP ON DOING SOMETHING..thats what you will do.

however..the comments about SPARK PLUG READINGS is the best indicator

for jetting and fuel. oyu have a highc head..dual ex heders and you should be using the standard jets.

before i would change jets...i would learn a few things;

1...check plug readings on fast and slow situations.

2...check choke for proper operation

3...check idle speed/mixture.....1-1/2 turns out more out is richer, in is leaner.

4...it is possible to lean the carbs way down with mixture screw since you have 2. like 1/2 turn out on each

5...it is possible to actually cut the idle way down or off, on one of the carbs.

6...plug reading..= toasty color is preferred on electrode..slightly darker on outer ring is common...sooty, wet or totally black is no good. white is no good either(toooo lean)

[greg g]

most idle adjustment screws only effect the idle circuit and all the adjustment in the world goes out the window when the throttle plate opens.

[jd52cranbrook]

That's what I was told also concerning the adjustments.

That's why I want to try the smaller jets.

Geeze

I did turn the idle down, I did run only one carb, I did shut the IDLE mixture down. I did run the car without belts, I did turn the timing. Choke was working properly.

What I SHOULD be doing is not get too much fuel into the chamber.

THAT'S what I want to try.

Man, I got the same replies from my cam grind. Turns out this car was pretty quick for a flatty. Not everybody has to play follow the leader and have the exact motor as everyone else. I understand theory. I also understand I was here, looking and listening to my engine noise. I tried many things before deciding to tear it down.

If someone could point me to a source for smaller jets I would appreciate it.

[Lou Earle]

Here is one site

http://www.webercarbsdirect.com/Main_Jets_for_Weber_Carburetors_s/60.htm

Take the air cleaners off and run it- sounds funny but it might be them I got fooled as did Don by them one time.

Have u noticed that the oil on dipstick is very thin and smells strongly of gas?

After u change oil is there more oil/gas in the pan as reflected by higher level on dip stick?

If there is a poor gas air mix it is usually reflected by a lot of soot on plugs.

Sometimes wet.

also my experience has been excess gas is pushed out thru the exhaust valve and into the muffler tail pipe not down into oil pan unless I had really bad rings.

Anyway good luck

Lou

[Lou Earle]

Just noticed you have a non original ignition When I put a Mallory electronic on a 48 ford I had terrible soot/wet plugs, Then was told to open gap to between 50 and 70 thous. I did 70 and all problems cleared right up.

Lou

[Lou Earle]

Also just noticed copper tubing for gas line - very dangerous in my book I had that and one broke almost in 1/2 due to just simple vibration.

There is a reason the line was originally steel. Copper is just to flexible to withstand a lot of un avoidable normal vibration.

Just my observation

Lou

[jimwheeldon]

Have you tried NAPA , using the motorcraft No# instead of the Carter Weber?

I would think that may be mre "common"...Good luck, I'm intriuged at what your end result is. Looks like a damn cool setup to me.

[jd52cranbrook]

Thanks for the info, I will try that link today.

That is a old pic, I have since changed to brake lines by Napa to run my fuel.

I did try Napa's web site, but I may do more calling today.

The gap on the plugs is opened up to Langdons spec, don't have the number handy right now. But they are wider then normal. But I don't think they were that wide, I will look into that.

I have a chrome dip stick, (will have to take it off the lower half) so the readings are off. Always darker in the pan the dip stick. But it does spit out the tail pipes when warming up, black liquid. I always thought it was condensation?

As far as gas smell on the dip stick, my nose could not tell you I'm afraid.

Thanks again.

[martybose]

I spent over an hour last night going through bookmarks on my old computer without finding the site I thought I had, but the link in the post above goes right to the correct jet, as the carb is known as a DFTA. I've been told that the main jets are on the bottom of the air bleed assemblies, and they will be extremely tight and difficult to get out.

I couldn't find anything that gives an idea of what size the original jets are, so you'll have to pull them out and hope they are marked. Let us know how it goes.

Marty

[BobT-47P15]

Just a non-professional opinion.....that just looks like a bit too much

carbureation for our little flathead sixes. Impressive looking though.

Your engine looks super, JD.

[jd52cranbrook]

Thanks Bob, I like a clean engine and compartment.

Thanks for looking Marty, Lou for the link, Jim I will try that route also.

I have the jets out,

Primary main= Air bleed is 150 jet is 105

Secondary main= Air bleed is 250, jet is 100

Looks like smaller size are not offered on these. This link shows smallest is 115 mm if I am reading it right.

But I am getting closer for sure.

[jd52cranbrook]

I called Weber, talked to a guy there who seemed to know what he's talking about. I ordered what is called air corrector air bleeds. But I could only get one size that may work for the primary only. 165 compared to 150 of the original. Theory being; more air = less fuel in final mixture

http://www.webercarbsdirect.com/Air_Corrector_Jets_for_Weber_Carburetors_s/61.htm

For 4.20 a piece I figured to try it.

He also to check my fuel pressure when back together, 3 to 3.5 was what Weber's liked he said. Anything more, like 4 or higher and he said fuel could be getting past the jet and seat, causing it to run rich. I do have a fuel pressure gauge around here somewhere, will put that on too.

Learn something everyday is good. The journey continues.

[martybose]

Just a non-professional opinion.....that just looks like a bit too much

carbureation for our little flathead sixes. Impressive looking though.

Your engine looks super, JD.

It's really not too much. If you compare the bore sizes, both of the C-W's are smaller than the original. In addition, most of the C-W's were used on 1.8 or 2 liter engines, while our 230's work out at 3.76 liters, so a pair of them is just about right!

Marty

[James_Douglas]

One thing to keep in mind, which many folks forget, is that when you have duel carbs your venturi area goes up. When this happens the engine vacuum is sucking through a large hole.

This brings up two issues: Main Metering and Idle circuit. (Since the secondaries are progressive on this carb and you spend little time at WOT, it probably does not need to be changed and in fact a little rich is not a bad thing at WAT to cool the engine and help keep it from pinging)

1.As a result of the venturi increase it is often necessary to INCREASE the size of the main metering jets.

2.If the carbs you have are running rich at idle with the idle mixture screw as far in as possible, then you would need to make the air bleeds smaller so that the air passing by the idle slot will not pull as much gas to the back side of the idle mixture screw. Not many carbs have any way to change the idle air bleeds. This one may and their is a special Holley number for a 390 -4bbl that has a body with adjustible air bleeds.

In any case, I would not try to do any modifications unless you can get to someone with an engine anilizer so you can monitor the A/F ratio as you make changes.

Good luck, James

[jd52cranbrook]

Thanks James,

That's kind of what I had in mind. I was going to get parts I think I may need together. Fire the car up and running with the original set up. Then go back to a analyzer and work from there.

I really want to get the timing advance set correct also. I want to do it by actual measuring of the HEI itself, with and without vacuum, as told to me by my builder. Then set it by comparing numbers for the correct amount.

What I know is if I don't get these items set correctly once and for all. This work will have achieved nothing.

I will go back to the web site and look for different idle jet sizes. I am not sure yet how difficult it is as Marty says to replace these jet. They are fitted pretty tight, and I would hate to ruin a tube doing so.

In any case I finally gathered my spare change, robbed my piggy banks, and have ordered the new bearing, rings, gasket set. I'm getting antsy not driving it.