What am I overlooking?

[Jim Yergin]

I know there was a recent thread started by Rodney about a hard start problem. I followed the advice on that thread but still can't get my engine to start. Maybe someone can tell me what I am overlooking.

I successfully started the remanufactured 201 in my '41 Plymouth last month for the first time. It would start right up whenever I wanted it to. I couldn't get the idle speed down and George Asche was nice enough to have me send the carb he had rebuilt back to him and check it out. He pointed out that I had failed to install the proper fitting for the vacuum advance line and maybe I had a vacuum leak causing the fast idle. I have reinstalled the carb with the correct fitting but now I can't get the engine started. I have triple checked my static timing, the fuel pump is pumping and there is gas in the carb. The accelerator pump shoots gas into the throat when the throttle is opened. The spark plugs are clean and dry and I have a strong blue spark when I pull and ground the plug while turning the engine over. I have tried starter fluid and it will almost catch and start but fails to do so.

Am I missing something? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Jim Yergin

[Guest Nelsons Ply]

Jim

check the little short wire in the dis.

But you say you got spark.huh

Have to sleep on this one.Got gas spark and no start.

Make sure the wires are not crossed.

Hope its a simple fix.

[greg g]

I would re verify the timing siuation, and make sure it is correct. I chased the same situation for about a half day. I had the spark plug wires off by one tower in the dizzy cap. When trying to start I would get one pop about every 4th revolution but nothing. I had done the static timing with only the wire for number one spark plug, and had it right according tot he book. when I put the rest of the wires on, and back through the loom, I missed clockwise by one. Right church wrong pew, no start. Sleep on it check it out and assure it is correct. You might want to do the static timing drill again just to assure your diz isn't 180 degrees out and or retrace your plug leads to assure they are following the correct firing order sequence. It can get frustrating to get so close and not have things work out. But if you have fuel and spark, its usually just a matter of getting together at the right time. Good luck.

[Normspeed]

Jim, did you change or work on anything else at all between the time you sent the carb to George and the time you put it back on? If so, look to those areas first. For instance did you remove and replace the distributor, or change the timing setting? Or did you change or adjust anything in the distrib, such as the rotor or cap or plug wires?

I ask because with starting fluid it really should be starting up at least until the starter fluid goes through. I'd suspect something like a major change in timing (retarded), or a replaced rotor or cap that is not the correct part but is close. (but you say you have a strong spark so maybe not the rotor or cap). As far as the carb, is there any chance at all that when you move the carb linkage, the bottom butterfly is not opening due to a linkage problem? I don't know if that is even possible on your carb, but it would cause the kind of problem you have, especially considering it won't actually catch and rev up even with starter fluid.

Being a shade tree kinda guy, I would forget for the moment the static timing, and I'd have someone try to start it while I twisted the distrib to and fro to see if changing the timing helped the situation.

It's a real chin scratcher of a problem and I'm anxious to hear the solution.

[Plymouthy Adams]

Are you sure you did not block the intake with a rag while the carb was gone to George and fail to remove it..starter fluid and ignition will always get a "bang" so to speak...flat out sounds like the mix is not making it to the cyclinders.

[Rodney Bullock]

Jim, it sounds like you did everything, sometimes if you walk away from it. Then go back to it you will find the problem. Since we are not there it is almost impossible to tell what is wrong however you know it's something very small because it worked before. I get high strung and over excited and miss things all the time. Knowing that you are so close makes it because you want the best for yourself, that car is great and a woodie to boot. As you know make sure yo got your ground wires in tact and that distributor is in the right position to start go back to the old way bring number one up and have the rotor pointing to 7 'oclock on the compression stroke. Good luck:)

[Guest johns4766]

I have found that spark plugs although clean can still be bad, had the same trouble, installed new plugs and it started right up, maybe worth a try.

[vanbuskirk]

finger in the #1 plug hole method to be sure that you are on the compression, and not the exhaust stroke? There are 2 TDCs. I did it wrong once and caused a lot of unnecessary angst until I discovered my error. Bob

[Jim Yergin]

Thanks to everyone for your helpful suggestions. The only thing I changed from the time I first got the engine running and I removed the carb was to retard the timing to see if that was the cause of the fast idle. After reinstalling the carb I readjusted the timing statically to TDC. I did not take the distributor out. When I first tried to start the engine before removing the carb I discovered I had the distributor off by 180' but corrected it then and have not changed it. The throttle plate in the carb moves freely and there is nothing inadvertently left in the carb.

It seems to me that if I have gas (or starter fluid) and spark the reason that it is not starting is that the gas and spark are not occurring together at the proper moment (i.e.timing). I will quadruple check my static timing as well as the spark plug wire sequence into the cap. I also like the idea of turning the distributor while turning the engine over to set the initial timing. Also, just to make sure, I will replace the spark plugs. I may have flooded the engine when I intially tried to start it after reinstalling the carb and fouled the plugs.

Thanks again and I will let you know how I make out.

Jim Yergin

[Justin Slingsby]

Jim, Do you have dry or wet plugs after turning it over a couple of times? Is the motor flooding? Can you smell gas? Does the carb pump gas when the linkage is actuated?

[bob westphal]

I have had trouble with starting old MoPars when I had the engine heavily flooded. These engine can flood easily! If this occurs fuel will lie in the bottom of the intake manifold and continue to keep the plugs wet. Hold the throttle open and look down in the manifold. If you see gas laying in the manifold this is your problem! What I did was to remove all the plugs and blow compressed air down each plug hole while I slowly turned the engine over by hand until air came out the carb on each cylinder. This cleaned all the excess fuel out of each cylinder. I continued this until I didn't see gas laying the the manifold. I cleaned the plugs and reinstalled them and started the engine. It blew lots of black smoke and ran rough until it cleared itself. Give it a try.

Bob

[Guest Nile Limbaugh]

The intake manifold on my 37 actually has a drain built into it at the sump directly below the carb. It's part of the heat riser. Apparently this was to dispel any liquid fuel that wound up there in order to minimize flooding. I took it out and plugged the hole. It didn't affect the running at all!!

[oldmopar]

Is it possible there is a problem with the needle valve and it is not suppling the fuel flow properly kind of a long shot but from reading this I would think it has to be related to the last work done which was the carb swap

ed

[Chester Brzostowski]

Jim,

What type of air cleaner do you have on the carb. If the air filter is restrictive then the motor will flood easier and you will not get the right mixture of gas & air. If you are not doing so.., I would try to start it without any air filter attached.

I was having trouble establishing a smooth idle using the Edmonds repro air filter setup. With only one carb and two filter elements I still didn’t get enough air to allow for proper mixture of gas and air. Once I removed the filter I could get the motor to run smooth at a very, very, slow idle. Also it started right up without the air filter. I was constantly flooding the engine with the repro air filter attached. The only way I could get it started was to remove the air filter. Also with the air filter on the engine it would run slow and then fast.., almost like it had a race cam. Sometimes at acceleration it would backfire through the carburetor. All this went away when I got rid of the air filter.

My 2 cents...

[48mirage]

Compressed air and pooled gasoline. Your story scared me just imagining the fuel/air mix blowing out of the carb like a smokestack.

[Normspeed]

And you didn't even know about the pipe Bob was smoking at the time!

Compressed air and pooled gasoline. Your story scared me just imagining the fuel/air mix blowing out of the carb like a smokestack.

[Guest Roadrunner]

Stop. All it will do is remove your eyebrows:eek:

[Don Coatney]

Jim;

Once when I had my engine setup to run on the test stand it would not re-start. Like you I went through all the steps looking at all the reasons it would not start. I pulled the plugs, distributor, plug wires, and everything in between. Scratched my head a few more times then I checked my fuel supply. I was running the engine with the fuel pump suction line stuck in my lawnmower gas can. My gas can was empty. I filled it and my engine fired up directly.

It sounds to me as if you may have flooded your engine initially and now have fouled plugs. Have you tried new ones yet?

I believe you have a foot starter so I must ask is your ignition key turned on and are you getting power to the ignition coil and distributor? Is your rotor installed in the distributor? Is the distributor cap installed correctly with the Bakelite tab locked into the slot on the top of the distributor?

[Jim Yergin]

Don,

Thank you for the suggestions. I have run through all of them and they check out OK. I followed Bob Westphal's suggestion and saw a fair amount of gas blow back out the carb. Unfortunately my battery was too run down to try and start the car. I will have to wait until it is charged up to determine if flooding was my problem.

Thanks to everyone for the help. I will keep you posted.

Jim Yergin

[Don St Peter]

I recently went thru the same situation on my 40 and found that the carb float was set to high.

Don