Crimping and Soldering Terminals ???

[55 Fargo]

Hi all, I have recently replaced most of my wiring on my 47 Chrysler, with wire gauges of 10,12,14 and 16. I have used mostly crimp connections, a few solder connections.

Now I realize solder is best, but I have never had issues with crimps either, infact my crimps are extremely tight, I had to take some apart, they were very tight and needed to be cut off.

Will the crimps be a problem in the long run:confused: ?

I have just learned to solder, a bit:D , so I am not too good at it yet................Thanx Fred

[Oldguy48]

A properly done crimp connection should be fine, but you may want to crimp & solder, especially on any higher current connections. If you're using bare copper wire on the crimp connections, it could eventually oxidize and creat a bit of resistance at the crimp. That can result in some voltage drop, and heat at the connection. If you do solder your connections, use a good quality rosin core (not acid) solder, a clean soldering iron or soldering gun tip, and keep the connection as clean as possible. A good practice is to use an electronic solvent and a small stiff brush to scrub the connection prior to applying the solder, and don't touch the connection with bare fingers before applying the solder. In some instances, a drop or two of liquid rosin type flux can be helpful if the solder doesn't seem to want to flow. Then clean off the flux residue after you've made the solder joint, with the solvent and brush. If you are new to soldering, practice, practice, practice. Before long, you'll find that it isn't that difficult, and a properly done solder connection isn't likely to ever give you any problems. Good luck!

[littleman]

Well, lets see. Yes a solder joint is better than a crimp joint, when the solder joint is perfect( or at least real good), and the crimp joint was not done properly. Reversed, the crimp joint is better.

When full contact is not made in an any electrical conection, corrosion will set in, and interfere.

That said, Pulling on a solder joint , versus a crimped joint, the solder would probably hold up much better.

So IMHO, as long as no one's feet are going to end up thrashing around under the dash, either or is fine.

AL

[oldmopar]

I am sure a soldering a joint would be a good thing and since you have a solid connection the rule in soldering but it would be time consuming. Since I am basically lazy I did not consider soldering any joints when I wired my car but will be coating the exterior visible joints with Silicone Dielectric to seal the joints.

[55 Fargo]

Thanx Guys, my next question is this, there are high quality crimp pliers, I have the cheaper end type, what is the difference, on the high quality crimp pliers are the crimps different, does the plier, crimp them in a better way................Fred

[Oldguy48]

Even an inexpensive crimper can produce a good crimp. I've got a Stanley crimper that I've had for years, and it does an excellent job. I also routinely work with AMP, Thomas & Betts, and other higher end crimpers. They all just basically compress the terminal onto the wire, and if you can give the wire a good strong tug, and the wire remains firmly clamped in the terminal, you've got a good connection. The higher end crimpers are limited as to how much compression of the terminal is produced, and can be checked with calibrated plug gages for proper crimping action, whereas some of the inexpensive ones produce as much compression as your grip can provide. Take a few terminals, and a length of wire, and make a few crimps. Then try to yank the wire out of the terminal. As long as the crimp hasn't pinched off any strands of wire,and the wire is firmly clamped in the terminal, you shouldn't have any problem.

[mackster]

Thanx Guys, my next question is this, there are high quality crimp pliers, I have the cheaper end type, what is the difference, on the high quality crimp pliers are the crimps different, does the plier, crimp them in a better way................Fred

I have several for work. from Snap-on to Harbor freight. My experience is that although the crimp is easier to do with a quality tool, It does not necessarely makes it worth it. I used them all the time at work so I need to have them runnning smooth, fast, and they need to not damage the wiring that I'm working with, as this will set me back in time. time is money. But for a one time deal, I wouldn't spend too much on one I would get the mid-price set....my .02 cents

MG!

[Norm's Coupe]

I have three or four crimper's in all price ranges. Keep getting them as Christmas gifts. At any rate, for me they all work the same, cheap ones or the more expensive ones. As for having problems vs solder joints. About half of the new connections I've made are crimp ons and have had no problems with them. Since my son is Mr. Perfect and to him soldering is the only way, so the ones he's made are soldered and have no problems with them either. So, I say either way is good.

I normally only use crimp ons that have the insulators. If they don't have insulators I use heat shrink tubing over the connection.

[oldmopar]

I would think most crimped joints that fail are the result of using the wrong connector (using a # 12 connector with a # 18 wire) then from the quality of the crimping tool.

Ed

[Jim Saraceno]

I agree with was has already been said. I'm an electrician and I use crimp terminals all the time and I have cheap crimpers and expensive crimpers. When I'm working on a job where I am using a lot of crimp connectors, I use the expensive ones because they give better leverage but the cheap crimp just as well. The only exception to this is when you are using the yellow terminals for #12 or #10 wire. Some of the cheap crimpers just don't give you enough leverage.

[55 Fargo]

The only exception to this is when you are using the yellow terminals for #12 or #10 wire. Some of the cheap crimpers just don't give you enough leverage.

Jim, this is where the grip strength training comes in, sometimes on the smaller the red and blue terminals, I have a tendency of breaking them by applying too much pressure. The yellow 10 and 12 gauge size are a little more of a challenge.

Now having said and having asked some questions, here is another question.

When I crimp say ring terminals, either blue or yellow, I strip about 1/4 inch of insulation off the intended wire, I then twist the wire, insert inot the ring terminal, with the terminal ring flat and right side up, I crimp them horizontally or 90 degrees. I crimp close to the ring first, then crimp behind this crimp, them give a full crimp to both until very tight.

I just tried this on the bench, I could not pull off the terminals, with a good tug.

Is this the right way to crimp, or is there an actual proper procedure to follow for best results...............Fred ps thanx all for the replies, I like it when a question produces responses and opinions

[Normspeed]

I picked up a ratcheting crimper at Pep Boys for around $35. I really like it, I get good solid crimps, lots of leverage, and it doesn't tear up the insulators. I used crimps and solder with heat shrink insulation on all my underhood wiring. But even without the solder, I get good crimps connections.

I've heard that in areas exposed to vibration, solder joints are more likely to fail over time. That would be in planing hull boat applications.

[Jim Saraceno]

Sounds like your crimps are fine. You really only need one crimp, close to the center of the metal section. The terminal should be held with the ring up or down for the best results. If you crimp too hard, you may break the insulation and if you crimp to weak, you can pull the wire out.

That brings up the one other thing to look for. Some crimpers are made for bare terminals. Those crimpers have a tooth on one side and a valley on the other. Most terminals today have insulation on then so be sure to use crimpers specifically for the insulated terminals. They will have shallow valleys on each side.

[eric wissing]

The only thing I could add is that whether you crimp or solder use shrink tubing to cover your connections. It lasts so much better than electrical tape. Eric

[Normspeed]

Fred, the best tip I can share about soldering is, heat the area to be soldered (wire, connector) with the soldering tip and when it's hot enough you'll be able to touch the wire solder to the heated area, not to the soldering gun tip, and it will melt right into both parts for a good solid solder joint. Heat shrink is great stuff for insulating the joint, if you remember to slip it on the wire beforehand and move it up the wire to a cool area.

[randroid]

Gents,

I've always favored the crimp-and-solder combination, but I'm a belt-and-suspenders kind of guy. What perplexes me is finding un-insulated connections. I prefer using them with heat shrink but I've looked for them in hardware stores, automotive suppliers, and even Radical Slack, all to no avail. When I do find a few (always the wrong size) they're more expensive than the pre-insulated ones.

Anybody know a good source where I might pick up a few dozen of each size I need without mortgaging the cats?

-Randy

[Normspeed]

You could take some insulated ones and pull the sleeves off with a needle nose pliers.

[Plymouthy Adams]

when faced with a situation where I want a soldered ternimal I also just take my knife ans slice the insulation off and use shrink tube to dress it when finished..getting harder and harder to find uninsulated lugs..

[teardrop puller]

I remember that in the Navy working on their airplanes, we had to use crimps. Solder joints on a wire that can wiggle, will break off. So. if the terminal is mounted to a non movable thing, make sure that the wire can not move. If the joint is a splice, I like solder, as long as both side can move the same, like in a wire bundle. When I worked, That was a long time ago, all of the cabinets that were built had crimped terminals. We had to use calibrated crimpers. Too tight is bad as well as too loose is bad. So go figure.

kai

[Plymouthy Adams]

same here teardrop..we used Stak-on brand that were for the color coded bule and red lugs..and they were calibrated..

[Norm's Coupe]

Gents,

I've always favored the crimp-and-solder combination, but I'm a belt-and-suspenders kind of guy. What perplexes me is finding un-insulated connections. I prefer using them with heat shrink but I've looked for them in hardware stores, automotive suppliers, and even Radical Slack, all to no avail. When I do find a few (always the wrong size) they're more expensive than the pre-insulated ones.

Anybody know a good source where I might pick up a few dozen of each size I need without mortgaging the cats?

-Randy

I see non insulated crimp on connectors at swap meets all the time by the bin full. A lot of times, that's all my son buys when he goes. (He likes to crimp, then solder). Since those guys have them, they must be readily available. Try some of the electronics supply catalogs and you may find them. Only problem with that is, you may have to buy more than you need.

[HughForrest]

I like the uninsulated terminals but can't find them locally, so I get the insulated ones and take off the vinyl sleeve. I slip on heat shrink tubing, then crimp-no solder as I tend to overheat things.

A while back I asked a professional electrican what pliers and crimpers he likes best. Without hesitation he said "Klein". I got a pair of the Klein plier-style crimpers with the "Tooth-and-valley" for uninsulated terminals as described above, and a little wire nipper beak. Couldn't be happier with it, and the price was pretty good at Home Despot.

[bob_amos]

As a professional electrical tech. I always crimp and solder. I also use non insolated terminals or will remove the nylon or vinyl insolator and slip on some heat shrink tubing. This gives a tight seal and looks more true to the original terminals. Nothing but nothing beats doing the job right the first time.

[Jim Saraceno]

Nothing but nothing beats doing the job right the first time.

I was told "Measure twice and cut once." but I usually say "Gee, I dunno! I cut it off three times and it's still too short!"

[Oldguy48]

If you're having trouble finding the type of terminals you're looking for, try your local electrical distributor, where the professional electricians get their supplies. Home Depot or Lowe's probably won't have them. Ask for Thomas & Betts crimp terminals. They are available in insulated or non-insulated varieties, in most any configuration you might need (spade or ring terminal) for most any wire size. Not sure of the current pricing, but for something as important as this, they are worth whatever the price. There's a big difference in quality with these compared to what you'll find in your local Autozone.