Questions on 54 C-1 truck project

[888]

I joined back in 2019 when I was looking at a 53 B-1 truck project and I passed on that one.  I've cleared the barn and will have some money towards the middle of December and started looking for another project truck.  Here in SW Ohio there aren't many left but I found one that seems to have some possibilities.  It's a 54 C-1 with the high side bed, 6 cylinder, 3 on the tree, and single rear window that is supposedly original.  Still has the Job Rated trim, grille is all there and not bent, it is said to be "good running", has all of the glass intact, and doesn't appear to be rusty.  Interior looks like it might have been white but the body was painted light blue at some point.  Looks like Dodge had Panama Sand and Sonora Blue in 54 so who knows. Original doesn't extend to the wheels, there are some kind of 5 spoke mag style wheels on there now. 

EDIT - is the bolt pattern on these fairly "modern"?  As in 15" steel wheels and Mopar dog dish hubcaps being possible?  I'd love to have a set of original hub caps but I imagine those are scarce. 

Pictures make it appear like it's been stored inside a concrete floored warehouse or large garage for some years.  Of course, you never know what something is till you go see it in person, which I may do in the next week or so if it's still for sale.  

 

Looking up info on the C-1, it appears that they aren't as popular with collectors as the B and D?   The guy wants a lot for it (to me anyway) and the price is said to be firm, but it's been for sale for quite a while.   My intent is not to restore it, but make an reliable good weather daily out of it, but even that will probably take some investment. 

 

I sorted through a few pages of posts and the post below provides a lot of information about things I would have questions on, but I have a few more:

 

Looks like it is straight axle/drum brakes up front.  I usually work on older aircooled VW's that have kingpin/drums up front and they can be a handful unless you get rid of bias ply tires and stopping takes some advance planning.  How is the steering and braking on these?  About what you would expect from a 1954 but manageable?  I found a link to a kit to discs but it only is guaranteed to work through 1952.  Were there some changes after 1952?

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

 

Edited November 28, 2024 by 888

[JBNeal]

11 hours ago, 888 said:

...is the bolt pattern on these fairly "modern"?  As in 15" steel wheels and Mopar dog dish hubcaps being possible?  ...

 

Looking up info on the C-1, it appears that they aren't as popular with collectors as the B and D?   ... 

 

How is the steering and braking on these?  About what you would expect from a 1954 but manageable?  I found a link to a kit to discs but it only is guaranteed to work through 1952.  Were there some changes after 1952?

I recall the C-1-B rims should have the 5 x 4.5 bolt pattern...fwiw, that side mounted spare rim is not original either, kinda looks like the spare rim I had on the 92 Dakota. 

 

The big problem with the C-series was its limited run:  C-1 debuted for 1954, with a brief run into 1955; then C-3 debuted in mid-'55 with many running changes, the most notable being the cab + doors going with a more forward look, and ran into 1956.  By 1957, the sheet metal forward of the cab completely changed.  So the grille + front fenders for the C-1 and C-3  are interchangeable, but the cabs and doors are not.  The C-3 cab was used in small trucks until the end of 1960, and in large trucks until the end of 1975.  So in some regards, the C-1 was a one-year only production run...that can make parts scarce and repairs expensive.

 

As for steering and braking, the B-series and C-series were very similar.  I do not have a factory parts manual to verify all part numbers, but there were quite a few items from the B-4 that carried over to the C-1, as well as C-1 items carrying over to the C-3 and beyond in compatibility, most notably powertrain and suspension parts.  The big change for C-1 steering was moving the gearbox outside the frame rails, as the frame was made more narrow at the front axle to decrease turning radius.  From a cursory review, this changed the B-4 steering gearbox casting, but the internals were unchanged or slightly modified.

[888]

Thanks very much for the detailed response.  I read that the C wasn't around long compared to the B but didn't know all of the changes made. 

 

So it sounds like the front sheet metal on this one needs to be perfect and I can't wreck it because I'm not going to find replacements easily.  Sounds like I'll need disc brakes

 

Are you thinking that the spare wheel currently mounted is incorrect or the presence of a spare wheel at all on this truck in that location is incorrect? 

 

I've read a few places that the early 1954 model run had a different (100 hp) 6 cylinder engine than the remainder (110 hp) as well?   Are parts harder to come by for the earlier engine?   I've seen someone on here has a cross reference between VIN and engine number so if I can get the VIN, the engine can be determined?  The engine is s a flat head from the photos. 

 

I've had a number of 89 to 93 Cummins trucks (currently have a 92 standard cab manual transmission dually) and have always wanted to find an earlier Dodge shortbed manual transmission truck.  They are really hard to find in my area of Ohio in decent condition and my track record with sight unseen/shipped vehicles has been really bad so when something shows up around here, I have to check it out. 

 

He wants $7,500 for it which seems like a lot but it might run like a top and be completely rust free which makes it worth considering.  It doesn't appear to be beat up sheet metal wise.   I didn't add a lot more photos because my internet is spotty but there are two different photos of the engine posted in the ad....one does not show a radiator cap and the heater core hoses to the firewall are cut off.  Looks like there are heater hoses in another photo, so that needs to be sorted out. 

 

Any idea about the color?  Many years ago, I was into mid 60's Chevy trucks and the interior sheet metal on all of them was painted a cinnamon brown regardless of the exterior color.  Not sure if Dodge painted all interiors white or this one was white (Panama Sand?) before blue (Sonora Blue?). 

 

Thanks again.  I don't know a lot about these so I appreciate your responses.

 

Edited November 29, 2024 by 888

[JBNeal]

3 hours ago, 888 said:

...

Are you thinking that the spare wheel currently mounted is incorrect or the presence of a spare wheel at all on this truck in that location is incorrect? 

 

I've read a few places that the early 1954 model run had a different (100 hp) 6 cylinder engine than the remainder (110 hp) as well?   Are parts harder to come by for the earlier engine?   I've seen someone on here has a cross reference between VIN and engine number so if I can get the VIN, the engine can be determined?  The engine is s a flat head from the photos...

 

Any idea about the color?...

I found the FB listing in question and this picture has some details worth expanding upon.  Original color probably is that white hue on the firewall...if the back of the glovebox door is the same color, then more than likely that was the original paint.

 

The heater core appears to be aftermarket and the hacked appearance of installation and disuse is not a good thing...it's not a deal breaker as it's peripheral to the engine and can be addressed.  That carburetor looks cleaner than anything in the engine compartment, so maybe that's recent.  The head bolts have been changed to studs with chrome cap acorn nuts, maybe the engine has been gone through,  maybe not.  The missing rad.cap bothers me, that's easy enough to replace but that chore has been neglected.  That plastic fuel filter dangling in proximity to the exhaust manifold really bothers me, kinda tells me the engine has been re-fired after years of being dormant and the owner has lost interest and needs to pay bills before January...who knows what jive he's pushing to unload this beast.

 

The engine number is stamped on the block, and casting dates can be found on the block and head, directly above and below the distributor.  A build card would need to be procured to determine if the engine was original to the truck...a shortcut might be that if the truck title number and flathead engine number are the same, then maybe that flathead is original.  Modern VINs didn't appear until nearly two decades after this truck was manufactured, so the engine number was used on many titling documents...which can be a problem as back in the day there was a legitimate business in engine rebuilding and replacement to maintain vehicles longer rather than buying new vehicles. 

 

These flathead engines from 1951 onwards were basically the same, with changes in compression achieved by head machining.  Parts availability should not be an issue though more expensive than blue oval or gm of that era as Dodge accounted for  something like 10% of the truck market back then, so Dodges are rare compared to them.

 

The side-mounted spare was not a factory option until 1957 or so, definitely not on a C-1, but there were aftermarket kits available as well as many homemade versions found in the wild.  That spare was originally underslung of the bed, out of the way.

 

This truck looks to be a good candidate for restoration, but missing pieces, quick (sloppy) mods and its deteriorated condition are not causing me to drool over it.  If there's no title available right now, I would be even less interested.   If'n ya showed up with a trailer and 3k in unmarked bills in a paper bag, maybe that could close a deal, but more than 5k price tag is a deal that I'd pass on...these guys want top dollar from somebody who is running on emotion and don't like to haggle with someone armed with knowledge.  I like to save a relic from the past from an unfortunate fate, but I don't wanna end up in the poor house reviving a basketcase 

[888]

Thanks again for the detailed response. 

 

I asked the guy to send the VIN so I could at least do some basic checking and the response was "No, sorry we don't send pictures off the VIN".

 

Between your comments and that response, I'll give it a pass and keep looking. 

 

 

Edited November 29, 2024 by 888

[Los_Control]

Yeah not really a VIN on these old trucks.

They did use the engine number for a VIN, then the frame is stamped up front somewhere with the same number.

A lost title can be a real pita in some states .... no idea about yours.

 

It is so common to swap the original engine out with a different one ... now the engine and frame numbers do not match .... red flag for a DMV inspection.

Some states it is not a big deal and use common sense.

 

I also would not send a VIN online to someone I never met or did business with  .... the guy is smart here.

I also agree $3K in its current unknown condition ... if it runs good, brakes work, minimal rust .... up to $5k

 

$7500 I would want all the fluids changed, new tires, full tank of gas, fresh polish and wax and driven to my door step for delivery.

Just because it is rare does not make it valuable .... in this case, just makes it harder to find replacement parts.

[888]

Thanks for the responses.  You guys have provided exactly what I needed to know.

 

To be clear, I don't know if there are title issues or not.  If I somehow suggested that there are title issues, that's on me. 

 

This is an older vehicle than I usually deal with and in the VW world I usually live in, providing the VIN is the only way to really know what year the car is and what engine serial number was in there from the factory.  Same goes with the newer ones; VIN tells whether it was German or Mexico/Brazil build so that's what is exchanged first and I didn't think asking for it was that big of a deal.

 

It looks like the seller seems to have somehow bought or inherited a number of older vehicles that were in storage and has them for sale on FB.  As JBNeal said (and I agree) I think they've gone through and did the minimum required to get them started so they could sell them as running vehicles.  I'm still interested because it appears to be pretty straight and not rusty but not at anything close to the current $7,500 firm pricing.  I'll just wait it out and see what happens. 

 

Thanks again. 

[888]

As an update - I am going to make the trip to see this 54 on monday, just to see what it actually is.  The sheet metal looks too good to not drive an hour to check it out and hopefully it having been for sale for 10 weeks has motivated the seller.  I've printed all of the info from JBNeal's signature regarding engine serial numbers and VIN's etc to take with me as a reference.

 

I am also looking (remotely) at a 64 D100 Utiline short bed in Tennessee with a slant 6 and factory 4 speed.  I'm waiting on more photos to verify sheet metal condition which seem to be difficult to provide for some reason. 

 

Hopefully, one of them work out, I'll update whenever I have something new to report. 

 

 

Edited Saturday at 04:09 PM by 888

[888]

Okay, time to settle down with a cup of coffee or whatever you drink. 

 

I went to see the 54 in the ad today and it was solid enough to work with, but not $7,500 worth or even close to it so I had some questions about it.   The guys who were handling the selling and placing the FB ads clearly were not the owner so they went to get "the boss" to answer my questions, who was a stately older gentleman.   He mentioned that he had another 54 in the basement that wasn't advertised.

 

I should mention at this point that I'm in a closed down old elementary school in a small farm town in central Ohio...windows are mostly all boarded up and it has been painted battleship grey on the outside.  There are cars and stuff everywhere inside, not a lot of lights and its hard to see.   There are Rolls Royces, a nice 53 Chevy two door, some old Camaros, some nice older round fender late 30's cars, an original untouched Model A, and many more scattered around the first two floors of this school building. 

 

One of the guys took me through this maze to a lower level and there nosed into against a wall behind a Rolls Royce and next to some sort of torn down street rod was a really nice 54 Dodge truck.  Same color blue but completely straight and near mint except for some paint coming off of the bed and being faded on top.  It was really packed in there but I could get the doors and hood open and it looks like the door panels and seat have been recovered and it has been changed over to 12 volt, but there were no dents, no scrapes, no bondo I could find.  The more I looked, the better it got.  Looks like it had a hood ornament on it? 

 

My feet were going numb (no heat in this place, it was 15 last night) so I snapped a photo of the data plate in the engine compartment and checked what I could see of the engine serial number and saw it started with a T and climbed back out of there.   The photo is hard to read but the Vehicle number on the dataplate is T3342724, model is a C1B, looks like the weight rating is 4,900 lbs. 87 net HP @ 3,200 RPM and 105 gross HP @ 3,600 RPM.

 

In my mind, I was thinking if he wanted $7,500 for the one upstairs, he'll want $15k for this one so I didn't bother with more photos and I went upstairs to talk to "the boss".  He told me he wanted $9,500 for it, it came from Colorado and had never been in salt.  He bought it from a friend 10 years ago and promptly stuck it in the school. 

 

We started talking more and I learned he is a multimillionaire from the Dayton area who has close to 150 cars tucked away in various places around the area, this school is kind of like his boneyard, the nice stuff is elsewhere.  His kids are grown and gone and he is in failing health so he is selling everything off. 

 

He mentioned living in the old money area of Dayton and told me he owned one of the Patterson houses (John Patterson, founder of National Cash Register/NCR) so I did a little digging on the auditor's web site as to who owned the school and crosschecked Dayton and yep, he owns one of the grandest old houses in the grandest area so it all checks out. 

 

Back to the truck, I think it's a 5 window but I was so shocked by what all was packed in that building that I don't even know for sure.  I have contact info for the guy who placed the ad and I've asked him to take some more photos of whatever he could see and text them to me.  He said he would do that but they haven't arrived yet. 

 

So..the 54 in the ad is definitely out but I am interested in the one in the basement if they can get it out of the hole it's in and it runs and drives well.   It's a lot of money but it looks completely straight and very nice.  I'll post more photos if/when I get them.  I am also looking at a 64 D100 down in Tennessee and awaiting information on that one.  One or the other will hopefully come home soon. 

 

PS - I do see the alligator clip on there

 

 

 

Edited Monday at 08:33 PM by 888
remove non working attachment

[Los_Control]

My 2 cents .... a very limited photo ... it has been converted to 12Volt, I question the quality simply because I see at least 1 original cloth covered wire,

Who knows, maybe that year they were already 12V and the wiring is just patched .... I dunno $9500 still sounds high for a project.

 

 

 

I saw this one on FB this morning, sold at Meacom auction for $13500 .... Granted that is a good deal and have seen them sell for more ... in todays market that is what it sold for.

 

We know your truck has questionable wiring and should be replaced, will need tires .... paint in the photo is not that great ... has been sitting for years, does the engine turn over and does it have any stuck valves? .... From the one limited photo you showed, I would say it is over priced.

[888]

Good points for sure and thanks for the opinion. 

 

More photos will do a better job of describing the positive aspects of it, I was amazed at how nice it was.  Even the tailgate appeared to be mint. 

 

I'm told it ran when parked and will want to hear it run and drive it before considering it. 

 

I honestly wasn't looking at it as too much of a project....I was going to leave the cosmetics alone, maybe install a set of tires and drive it as is. 

[ggdad1951]

what's sad is he's a multi millionaire and looking to make a few grand vs. finding these vehicles a new home before he passes along.  Likely if not sold they all will be crushed as it seems his kids don't care to do the work.

[888]

Yes, it was kind of sad in many ways.  My boys are both grown and gone and busy with their careers so I don't see them very often and I know a bit how he feels. 

 

His kids are both very successful (one works for Goldman Sachs and the other sells properties in Key West) so they have no interest in the vehicles or anything else he is divesting even though he told them there are millions of dollars involved here. 

 

He seems like the type that is going to make his money on anything he has up for sale because that is what he has always done...the classic buy low and hold till you can sell high.  If not, they will probably stay there till the kids have to deal with them but there are empty spaces so some things have moved.

 

No photos have arrived so I may go back today with a magnet to check the body, take some more photos, and see if it fires up.  It really is pretty nice and I'd rather have this one than something that has been restored or has fresh paint on it. 

 

Still waiting on photos of the 64 as well.   It is in primer and may need body work or may not, can't tell exactly what it is till my contact in the area checks it out for me.  If it's rough, it may mean I go with the 54 by default. 

[888]

I see on the web that Dodge had four trim levels on the 1954 Dodge trucks....Standard, Custom, Custom Regal and DeLuxe.   However, I have not been able to find anything yet that tells me what was included with each of the trim levels (and I did check out the Rare Options link in JBNeal's signature). 

 

The one I am looking at has a hood ornament and there aren't a lot of photos of 54's showing a hood ornament. 

 

Thanks

[ggdad1951]

I've seen so many and heard of so many people like that....looking for that last dollar and then when they are gone the kids don't care and just get scrappers....and then they are gone forever.   Sounds a lot like a song we all know by Neil Young.....

 

As for the value...yah it's tough...a good survivor is worth it if you can swing it....save the money on the paint/body work and think of it that way?  Try to find a parts book maybe and you might see what what standard for what and such (ornament might not have been part of the build).  I know next to nothing about the C series so that's my best advice.  I don't know if Eric Bannerman's decoder tool works for C series trucks or not.

 

[JBNeal]

6 hours ago, 888 said:

I see on the web that Dodge had four trim levels on the 1954 Dodge trucks....Standard, Custom, Custom Regal and DeLuxe.   However, I have not been able to find anything yet that tells me what was included with each of the trim levels (and I did check out the Rare Options link in JBNeal's signature). 

 

The one I am looking at has a hood ornament and there aren't a lot of photos of 54's showing a hood ornament. 

 

Thanks

 

I ordered a copy of Bunn's C-series Trucks Restoration Guide awhile back for research purposes, and learned a few things from it.  The C-1 was an evolution of the B-series, but the C-3 was a step backwards in styling...it does not make much sense to invest in design and tooling for a truck cab and doors to only be in production for less than 2 years... there wasn't anything wrong with the original design, but marketing direction followed the competition with the forward look fad...the result was leaky doors and windshields that rotted out cabs, and the subsequent D-series corrected these issues by designing cabs with raked windshield lines similar to the B-series and C-1.

 

The C-series had trim badges on the front fenders for Custom, Custom Regal, and DeLuxe.  No hood ornament was installed at the factory; a ram head medallion or a V8 badge were on the nose of the hood center, just above the DODGE badge atop the grille opening.  If you're seeing a ram hood ornament on this basement prospect, it might've been borrowed from an older truck or car.

[888]

Thanks for the insight on trim levels etc.   I don't recall anything but a Job Rated badge on the sides anywhere. 

 

I saw that book online but it was not available to be ordered, leave it to Bezos to have them. 

 

I also remember the fancy dogleg A pillar being a weak point in case of a rollover crash when they were all the rage on passenger cars in that era.  They would cave in and the roof ended up on top of the seats.  I was actually glad that this was a C-1 and had the raked windshield and straight A pillars versus the later design.  Not that I intend to end up on the roof but I've seen some amazingly bad drivers recently.  

 

I'd hate to think someone drilled holes in that center panel between the hoods to mount the wrong ornament but that is what may have happened.  I believe the seats and door panels are a greyish woven material so those are not factory either, the seats have blue cloth inserts in the seating areas to match the paint.  Someone may have made the truck what they wanted it to be versus what it originally was from the factory.

 

I plan to go back to the school tomorrow and take as many pictures as I can given the limited space around the truck and post them up for comment.   I've got to go to Columbus and look at a new daily which is 1.5 hours the wrong direction so it will be a long day, and I hope to do it all. 

 

I'm also packing a magnet to check for filler.  It looks completely straight, almost too straight for the age but everything looked good and passed the knock test.  It's best to be sure and use a magnet, though. 

[bkahler]

What I think will most likely happen when he passes on is the kids will contact an auction house and have them deal with clearing out all of the vehicles.  This sort of thing happens all the time. 

 

Don't put too much into the truck having the wrong hood ornament.  Lots of people like the looks of the ram ornaments and frequently that sort of thing is what attracted them to that particular model in the first place.  On my 51 the ornament was optional but I have one that is the correct ornament, now I just have to decide if I want to drill the holes and install it. 

 

The odds of finding a completely stock truck in great shape are pretty slim.  You can always buy replacement covers from vendors like DCM Classics if you want the original look and fee.

 

Looking forward to more pictures

 

[888]

Well, I made sure that these guys were going to be there at noon today before leaving for the 1.5 hour drive up there but when I was almost there around 11:40 I was informed that they wouldn't be there until "around 1 pm".  I was not going to kill an hour and 15 minutes waiting until "around 1pm" rolled around so I told them I was going back home.  

 

This is starting to become a pattern....I was first told I could come anytime between 10 and 4 weekdays but when I got there at 11 the first time they didn't show till 11:30. 

 

I asked for more photos and was told they would be sent, and they were not. 

 

The problem is that I'm not dealing with the owner, I'm dealing with two guys who aren't the sharpest tools in the shed who must be writing the ads and fielding the responses for the owner.

 

I'm headed out of town tomorrow for 10 days and told them I would get back with them when I got back.  I go back to work on 2/17 and after that, I won't be able to get up there.   At this point, I'm almost out of patience with burning 3 hours at a time going back and forth for no reason but I may give it one more shot before writing them off. 

 

I will update if I can get more photos between 2/10 and 2/17. 

Edited 10 hours ago by 888

[ggdad1951]

2 hours ago, bkahler said:

On my 51 the ornament was optional but I have one that is the correct ornament, now I just have to decide if I want to drill the holes and install it. 

 

get that drill out! 
 

[bkahler]

22 hours ago, ggdad1951 said:

 

get that drill out! 
 

 

Not until it's been properly re-chromed