2019 RAM Classic - A/C issues

[Eneto-55]

I posted the following last Friday, on a Dodge site that has a sub-forum for the RAM pickups.  Only one person has responded so far.  Wondering what the good folks here think of all of this.  

 

I never 'needed' A/C until we had it. I still do without most times, but my wife has to have it.  (And I'm the one who grew up in Oklahoma....)

 

Purchased our 2019 RAM Classic last year. Now the A/C is no longer cold. I guess I'm late to find out, but it uses R1234YF, not R134A. So, what's the difference, besides the newer stuff having a ridiculous high price?

 

Can the compressor system use the older type? (I saw a bit of discussion about adapter connectors.)

Now I'm wondering is this is why we got what seemed like a really decent deal on the pickup.....

 

Further research (I've been playing catchup - I must be around 10 years behind on finding out about this) reveals that it's something about the life time of the stuff if or when it escapes into the air.  This new stuff lasts only 11 days, where as the R134a lasts for a long time, months, I think they said.

[Dave72dt]

Orifice tubes may be different as well a couple of other components.   The new stuff is supposed to be environmentally friendly indicated by the 11 day breakdown.  Service equipment has to be dedicated to the r1234yf only as remnants of r134a and its lubricants may cause breakdown of ther1234yf.  There's some white pages that may be beneficial to read before contemplating using r134a including some legal aspects.

[Eneto-55]

Anybody here ever done a re-charge on this new stuff?  Same procedure as with R134a?

[Dave72dt]

I've never seen it in 12oz can.  The 30# drums were over 1,000 per when they first came out and the connectors are different than R134a.  You may want to bite the bullet and have it done professionally where any leaks can be found before charging the system.

 

 

Never mind.  They're all over the internet as well as fill kits and not much difference than r134a in price.

Edited July 2 by Dave72dt

[JBNeal]

AC performance check is in order from a qualified AC tech...if you've got a hole in that condenser or a leaky gasket spmewhere, then AC no worky.  These newer systems seem more robust than the R12 days when they all seemed to leak over time.  Before R134a came along, I remember asking several mechanics why R12 had to be topped off so much for a "sealed" system, and I was purty much told they all leak a little bit...YIKES.  The last AC leak that I dealt with was 5 yrs ago on the QuadCab:  hose retaining bolt apparently vibrated loose enough to break the seal, but gasket was still good, so every spring I crawl under the truck with a 10mm to retorque as required...so far, so good ❄️ 

[Sniper]

I am a licensed mobile AC tech.

 

That said, I have never messed with the newest stuff.  I only got my license so I could buy R12 for my 65 Cuda.  Recently, as in weekend before last, fixed the AC in a friend Toyota, R134 system.  A couple of issues with it, the fresh air vent under the hood was almost all the way blocked with leaves and pine needles.  The cabin air filter was probably original to the car and well pluggeed.  The system was maybe 6 oz low on freon.  Works fine now.  I suggest looking at those items as well as the blend air door.  I know there was/is an issue with Mopar blend air doors breaking and that is what controls the temperature.  Not sure when, or if, they ever sorted that out.  Had to fix that on on the old lady's 05 Ram.

 

Another thing to check, does the compressor turn on when you request AC?  If so you have freon in the system, might be low though.  One tube going in the cab should get cold, the other one hot.  If that is happening then it's probably a blend air door issue.  However, without gauges on the system and pressure readings, need ambient temperature too, it's a guessing game.

[Eneto-55]

Thanks, Sniper (and all who have replied).  

I changed the cabin filter last Fall - trying to get rid of the smoke smell inside.  It was extremely dirty - never seen one so bad.  

 

The blend door - that would be under the dash, correct?  Should I be able to hear it moving when selecting a different control setting?

 

I figure that it has a slow leak some place.  When we bought it, I had noticed that the cap for one of the AC lines was missing.  I mentioned it too the car lot owner, but I didn't make a big deal about it, I guess because we needed the pickup too badly, and everything else was so high priced.  I thought it was the low pressure line, because the cap size was the same size as the line on the 93 Chrysler T & C I had scrapped out years before.  (Or at least I'm pretty sure that was the low pressure cap I put on it.) I suspect now that they had charged the system before they brought it over to their main place, where we were waiting to see it. It isn't the only shenanigan they pulled, or that I suspect of them.  The steering "U-Joint" got really stiff fairly soon after we bought it.  I tried to get it off, but found that it freed up when I hit it with WD-40.  I still couldn't get it off, so I cleaned it all off meticulously, then made a leather boot to fit around it, and filled it with a good quality grease.  It has been fine ever since.  (There is no slop in the steering, or in that joint, so I don't think there is any problem with leaving that as a more-or-less permanent solution.)

 

I'll check the lines today, and see how it looks. Are you familiar with the layout of the lines on these RAMs?  Is the high pressure line around the right front of the engine bay, and a smaller diameter? (Probably a stupid question, but A/C is not something I am terribly familiar with.)

 

If it has a leak, I don't think it's inside the cabin, unless this new stuff doesn't have the same odor as R134a. (We had another vehicle that had that issue - could smell it strong inside, and also just in the garage.  The RAM sits outside all of the time, as the garage door isn't high enough - I'm pretty sure it would hit the top of the cab just as it goes in. Would need another person to watch to be sure.  I haven't taken that risk.)

[Eneto-55]

I should have looked at the manual before asking some of those questions. (I still don't know how I can confirm that it is not broken.)

Blend Door:

 

EDIT: Except I got this particular Repair & Service PDF manual on-line, and it must be for the earlier 4th Gen RAMs, because it has stuff about the R-134a type system, not this new one.  The 2019 RAM Classic Owner's Manual mentions both R-134a & R-1234yf.

Edited July 4 by Eneto-55

[Sniper]

12 minutes ago, Eneto-55 said:

Are you familiar with the layout of the lines on these RAMs?  Is the high pressure line around the right front of the engine bay, and a smaller diameter? (Probably a stupid question, but A/C is not something I am terribly familiar with.)

 

I am not familiar with any Ram newer than the 05 I mentioned.  But the high pressure line is the smaller diameter one.

 

Blend air door kit, with installation video.  What a real pain.

 

https://www.blenddoorusa.com/products/4th-gen-ram-09-with-single-zone-climate-control-complete-kit

[Eneto-55]

I think the pickup the guy had when doing the video must be a different model, because he states that they do not have a cabin filter.  I know mine does, because I replaced it.  It is pretty easy to access, through the glove box, as I recall.  You're right, though, if it's like he says, it's a REAL pain - remove the dash??!! I'm not going there. Oh for the days of simple under-dash after-market A/C units.....

[JBNeal]

4th gen Rams for years had an embossed blank on the HVAC box that could be upgraded by carefully cutting along the perimeter to add a cabin filter and a snap-in access door from the minivan.  The 2015 Laramie Longhorn that I bought from my elderly neighbor was almost fully loaded but did not have that cabin filter, so I snagged a kit off eBay and made the magic happen.

 

I have replaced 2 heater cores on Ram 2500s, and it is a chore as the airbags have to be disabled, the steering column is dropped, and the dash is removed as an assembly...easier said than done and with a helper, but I managed to do both by myself out of necessity.

 

2nd gen Rams had an issue with a plastic adapter between the blend door motor and the blend door shaft.  This adapter would develop a split so that the blend door did not rotate fully to completely seal off the heater core or the evaporator.  Not easy to check unless HVAC box is disassembled.  The symptoms would be heater that does not get very hot and AC that does not get very cold, yet engine coolant would be at operating temperature and AC pressure would be good.  The QuadCab had this problem for years but Dad didn't say anything about it until I started driving that truck and asked...tore into it when the AC compressor bit the dust, replaced the busted adapter and kaput compressor, and it's been blowing ice cold or lava hot as needed for the last 7yrs.

[Eneto-55]

12 hours ago, Sniper said:

....

Another thing to check, does the compressor turn on when you request AC?  If so you have freon in the system, might be low though.  One tube going in the cab should get cold, the other one hot.  If that is happening then it's probably a blend air door issue.  However, without gauges on the system and pressure readings, need ambient temperature too, it's a guessing game.

I was up at my shop where the PU is (not on our home property) this morning, and I heard the compressor spin up when I first started the AC, but I'm not sure that it ran after that - clutch not engaged, just the outer part of the pulley spinning).  The large line was cold-ish, and the small line was warm, but not really hot.

 

For my older vehicles that run R-134a, I never had a gauge set of hoses.  I just have the low pressure side hose, and a separate pressure gauge.

 

So would you all recommend splurging for the full apparatus, or is just the low pressure hose OK to use, in your opinion?  I might still take it in to get a shop to find the leak, but we don't really have much of what I (being from Oklahoma) would call 'high' temperatures here in Ohio.  (But my wife is from here, and her opinion is probably the most important one. Except that she doesn't drive it at all, just goes along if we go shopping together, for building materials, or something like that.)  In the back of my mind I'm thinking that as long as it holds the fluid over the Summer, that's probably cheaper way to go, even over a period of years.  I am leery of automobile A/C repairs, because in the cases where I've had it done, it didn't last very long at all - like hundreds of dollars out the window real fast.  Seems like every auto repair shop says they do A/C repairs, so it's hard to find one that you can have confidence in.

 

The heater works better than you need in the Winter, so it sounds like I can assume that the blend door is fine - not the cause.

[Sniper]

I really don't know the new freon systems well enough to say. I know with the old R12 you would just put in Freon until the sight glass quit bubbling and you were good. R134 is more sensitive than R12 was.  But I have no idea about this new stuff. Worst case scenario the garage tells you cost a bunch of money and you decide never mind.

[Eneto-55]

We were camping from Thursday through Sunday (annual deal with our age group from our congregation), and I had made a trip to town to buy the correct hose and an 8 oz can of the R1234 refrigerant a day or so before. So it was Thursday morning before I had a chance to put it in.  The instruction card that came with the hose doesn't match the color codes on the gauge, so I was not sure if it was saying that it was empty, or over-full.  I tried to put some in, but I don't think it took any of it.  So what would cause an over-full reading, when it doesn't cool?  Bad compressor? That's what i'm suspecting now.

 

So we just drove with the windows down. Fortunately it hasn't been over 84 or so, and we didn't go very far to camp.  Then just went on up the road a few miles where we can get on the bike trail. (They call it "Rails to Trails" - they have converted the old railroad easements into blacktopped bike trails.  They are still working of completing some sections, but you can already go for miles.  The section we were on is at least 14 or 15 miles from one end to the other, then there may still be a section that isn't finished.  Then another 15 mile section that goes through our county seat, about 8 miles from our house.  We're getting to be just a bunch of old people, so we just did a 4.5 section to & from, so a total of 9 miles.  That was Friday morning, then my wife & I did it again on Saturday, to keep company with a couple who arrived at the camp ground Friday evening.  I did a bit of back and forth both days, so I got in 20 miles.  Not that far, I know, but my south end is what gets sore.  I wasn't tired otherwise, but the rail lines are pretty flat, so no steep hills, and we didn't ride fast, either.)