Be Careful Out There…

[James_Douglas]

I just talked to a car friend of mine. He has a retired friend who has wanted a classic car for a while. He has gone to some car shows with us over time.

This person, a nice person I may add, found a car on eBay that was sold and then was re-listed as it fell through.

He ended up purchasing the car and paying for it via a wire transfer. Well, you can guess the rest. The car showed up on eBay 2 days ago again and the whole thing was a fraud.

He is out over $10K and no car.

I urge everyone who buys anything on eBay that is over your limit of what you can loose and not worry about it to either pay COD or get on an airplane and pay with cash while standing in front of the item.

Be Careful Out There…

James

[Mr. Belvedere]

E-bay is full of sickening horror stories like that, got to be very careful. Most people I know who bought cars, boats, or trailers on e-bay overpaid and or they were dissappointed with their purchase.

[teardrop puller]

We buy a lot of trucks, to resell in Mexico, off E-Bay. Only send a deposit through PayPal. If they do not take PayPal, be very suspect of something wrong. Go get the vehicle and take a certified check or cash with you after you see the car and take delivery.

kai

[oldmopar]

When I buy or sell a vehicle on ebay all transactions are cash when vehicle is picked up

[PatS....]

I just talked to a car friend of mine. He has a retired friend who has wanted a classic car for a while. He has gone to some car shows with us over time.

This person, a nice person I may add, found a car on eBay that was sold and then was re-listed as it fell through.

He ended up purchasing the car and paying for it via a wire transfer. Well, you can guess the rest. The car showed up on eBay 2 days ago again and the whole thing was a fraud.

He is out over $10K and no car.

I urge everyone who buys anything on eBay that is over your limit of what you can loose and not worry about it to either pay COD or get on an airplane and pay with cash while standing in front of the item.

Be Careful Out There…

James

With all due respect, eBayers have been warned and warned and warned ad nauseum about dotting the i's and crossing the t's when making a large purchase and the NUMBER ONE NO NO is a wire transfer. NUMBER ONE!!!!!!

So, unless a person had been institutionalized for the past ten years and has never heard of eBay it's very hard to feel sorry for some people.

This is the reason it is still happening is because people are their own worst enemies by not heeding , not reading or just plain ignoring warning after warning after warning.

James, it's a shame your friend lost his money, but if he had paid attention he wouldn't have. I don't feel sorry for him, though.

[Don Coatney]

James;

Post the link to the new auction.

[James_Douglas]

Don, There is no new auction as eBay pulled it.

Pat, that is a little harsh as some folks look at eBay a lot and then jump in for the first time when they see their "wish item". They are rash and they pay the price.

All that said, I do think that eBay IS ENABLING fraud by not allowing its registered users to post comments on any item being sold. The community would do a lot of policing of this sort of thing on its own.

However, eBay is so worried about legitimate sellers having someone say something that might stop people from bidding that they are willing to allow the status quo.

We all see on car forums people warning about something not being correct on an item, but if eBay registered users comments were tagged onto any item then a lot of folks would not get hurt.

James

[PatS....]

Don, There is no new auction as eBay pulled it.

Pat, that is a little harsh as some folks look at eBay a lot and then jump in for the first time when they see their "wish item". They are rash and they pay the price.

All that said, I do think that eBay IS ENABLING fraud by not allowing its registered users to post comments on any item being sold. The community would do a lot of policing of this sort of thing on its own.

However, eBay is so worried about legitimate sellers having someone say something that might stop people from bidding that they are willing to allow the status quo.

We all see on car forums people warning about something not being correct on an item, but if eBay registered users comments were tagged onto any item then a lot of folks would not get hurt.

James

James, as I said, with all due respect.

I'm not all that impressed with eBay OR PayPal, BUT there are enough warnings out there, even, GASP, from eBay themselves especially about wire transfers.

If people do not pay heed to those warnings, I don't think tagging comments onto an auction would be worth a damn as it would be ignored as well.

If folks don't know how eBay works and the dangers and don't bother to educate themselves and ignore the posted warnings, if they don't try to locate a friend to help them through the minefield, then, as I said, I have little sympathy for them.

If that's harsh, so be it. No disrespect intended, it's just my opinion.

eBay is the worlds largest playground for fraud and theft. The sooner people treat it as such, the sooner people will stop being stolen from.

It's not a place for the faint of heart, that's for sure.

As for being warned that something is not correct on an item, again, that is the buyers responsibility to educate themselves, ask questions, do research and not be SO enamored with an item that they wear blinders.

A prime example is the word "Restored". I don't think I have to explain THAT one:rolleyes:

[Norm's Coupe]

James sorry to hear about your friend. Although I agree with Pat (to a certain extent), people still get taken on ebay, etc. However, I do not totally blame the buyers, especially the older ones when something happens like this. Older people (say 50's and above) were raised in different times when people could be trusted more. Therefore, we tend to want to believe the other person we're dealing with is honest. When I first started selling on ebay I was trusting too. I even allowed people to pay by check and shipped as soon as I deposited the check in the bank. Didn't take long for me to stop doing that. Within the first 5 or 10 sales I had on ebay someone's check bounced. I did finally get the guy to pay up with a money order by threating him with legal action. However, I then stopped taking checks, unless I knew the person through the car club or this forum and the POC forum.

You can't even trust people using credit cards today to make a purchase. We've had several bounce on an order that was called in over the last few years. However, it's no big thing because we don't process the order until we have an authorization number from the card processing center, regardless of who it's from (even government orders).

[Plymouthy Adams]

I will say this..there are many warnings out there..tons of bad experiences listed and buyer should beware..however on the other side of the token I think that that E-bay COULD have better safeguards for their shoppers.

I also would like to know that these perps are getting caught and reamed up the yazoo for their scams....to get a product less than it is listed is bad enough..

For the price they get on these listings and such..they could easily become a holding company to protect both buyer and seller..

As an added note...I was looking at a car one time..good looking car..fair price..even got a couple return mails to my additional questions...firming up good..then I added..my cousin lives about 7 miles from you can I arrange for him to look at the car? Car listed ended as well as the communications...and by the way..my cousin did live but 7 miles away..he never ever had seen the car nor could find anyone who did know....he is pretty much in the old car scene...

I guess the guy could have sold it locally..don't know..never heard anything more...just kinda suspicious is all..

[James_Douglas]

Systems can kill people, systems can steel from them.

Let me use a metaphor. Sondra (my wife) has 25+ years in Critical Care Nursing. Due to profit pressures of the health car industry and other job opportunities for young woman that pay more and are easier a perfect systemic storm in health care is with us in the critical care world.

The Nursing staff which is the last line of defense against systemic errors are so bad that I carry a list from her of only those nurses in our HMO who can touch me or her. She is stuck, due to her much better original training, knowledge, and years in critical care, mentoring new Nurses. She thinks 1 in 10 should actually be allowed into an ICU. However all 10 get in.

People are being killed every day by mistakes in hospitals. It is in fact happening to your wife, your children, and you. It has been widely reported in every newspaper and TV news show at some time in the last 5 years.

When you or yours is in the hospital...have your researched and hired in advance an ICU nurse that you know is competent to make sure the system does not kill you? No, you do not and if something happens and your nurse does not catch it someone dies.

THE SYSTEM KILLS YOU. If you can show the medical system failed you, there is some recourse.

*************

In the case of ebay, yes, there is a lot information warning people about scams. However they have structured a system in which scams can flourish, however, they have also structured a system in which they can just sit back and say "I told you so".

I think this is wrong. I have been to a number of real auctions and during the viewing period people to talk about the items. If something is way out of whack with an item and someone is obviously a novice and paying particular interest, it is not uncommon for someone who knows what they are looking at to tell them to be careful.

On eBay, there is no such public feedback mechanism. Until ebay allows comments to be attached by anyone to an item, or allows comments about an item to be sent to bidders around the seller, then I am of the opinion that they a facilitating fraud.

They know what people's behavior is and they are not actively doing anything to address that issue with their system.

THEIR SYSTEM IS DEFRAUDING PEOPLE.

The problem is that given their economic power and the small relative sums involved, who can find a lawyer to sue them to improve their system. Hospitals are sued and Sondra can tell you the systems get changed ever year in an attempt to stop the carnage. But how is anyone going to get eBay to improve their system to reduce fraud?

To those of you who think my friend is a fool, all I can say is do you have your critical car nursing consultant all lined up to protect your family against mistakes? If not, they I think you are just a foolish as he is and should show more sympathy.

James

[Norm's Coupe]

I think ebay is protecting the sellers too. If I'm not mistaking you can't get the other bidders email address anymore, like you could a couple of years ago, unless you're the seller. That's bad. A couple of years or so ago I used the Buy It Now to buy a Neon sign because the price was cheap. Said right in the title it was Neon. I did it quick without checking the sellers feedback, which only had a couple of negatives and a bunch of neutral feedback. As it turns out the signs were not neon. Luckily I found that out before sending a money order to the seller, then told him I wasn't going to pay for it. Of course it wasn't shipped either, so in short a no sale. Anyway the seller then said he would ruin my perfect feedback score and leave a negative, and also report me to ebay as a non paying bidder. Told him I really didn't give a good a ____! So, he left me a negative and I also left him one. Then all of a sudden I started getting email from previous buyers complaining about the signs not being neon. Told them to complain to ebay like I did for misleading titles. Well................about a week later the guy had tons of negatives and ebay shut him down. I still see the signs on ebay so I think he just changed his ebay sellers name and used a different email for them. However, the title no longer says neon and in the description it says it's just a light bulb inside the sign. However, even under his new seller name he still has a bunch of new negatives and neutrals. The signs are evidently junk.

[PatS....]

"To those of you who think my friend is a fool, all I can say is do you have your critical car nursing consultant all lined up to protect your family against mistakes? If not, they I think you are just a foolish as he is and should show more sympathy."

I never once said he is a fool. He ignored well posted warnings of one thing NOT to do and did it and lost his money, like they said he would.

Fool is your word, no-one else's.

Not sure about the correlation of nursing to ignoring warnings not to do something that will cost you money. I fail to see the connection. Apples and Oranges.

[Plymouthy Adams]

I thought the comparison was the fact that you put your trust in both systems..one is no better than the other...and in terms of nursing..you cannot direct who will and will not attend in a hospital as their staffing is their call...you can verbalize a concern or if you are good/fortunate...document it by film..I try to have as little to do as possible with either....

[Reg Evans]

E-bay is full of sickening horror stories like that, got to be very careful. Most people I know who bought cars, boats, or trailers on e-bay overpaid and or they were dissappointed with their purchase.

I just have to say that I've had over 1000 transactions on eBay (buying and selling) and they have all been positive except one. A trolling motor didn't work and the seller never refunded my $100 after I returned the motor to him. eBay sent me a check for $85 after I filed a complaint. I've never paid more than I wanted to for an item and I've never lost any money (except $15) but that was negated by a hood ornament I paid $5 for and sold later for $250. The profits I've made on other items I've sold far outweighs the selling fees. Two Thumbs Up !!!!! James is right though....Be Careful and ask lots of questions.

[James_Douglas]

The point is that systems can hurt you. In medicine, by example, there are checks, safeguards, as well as court to "help fix the system".

With eBay there is very little the 2% of people hurt by THEIR system that anyone can do to help fix it so the next person that fall into that 2% category does not get hurt.

James

[Mr. Belvedere]

Well, what can I say but good for you. Most of my transactions have been good but the few that are bad really stick in my craw and sour the thing for me, I rarely buy on there any more especially antique car parts.

I just have to say that I've had over 1000 transactions on eBay (buying and selling) and they have all been positive except one. A trolling motor didn't work and the seller never refunded my $100 after I returned the motor to him. eBay sent me a check for $85 after I filed a complaint. I've never paid more than I wanted to for an item and I've never lost any money (except $15) but that was negated by a hood ornament I paid $5 for and sold later for $250. The profits I've made on other items I've sold far outweighs the selling fees. Two Thumbs Up !!!!! James is right though....Be Careful and ask lots of questions.

[Captain Neon]

There are just as many frauds on eBay as any other selling system. The crooks used to advertise in Hemming's. They've only moved over to eBay. Before eBay, there were parts and accessories that my family and I never thought we would ever see much less own. I remember when the rare chance some one was selling a P15 clock on Hemming's it was sold before I could call. Now, one can be found pretty easily if one keeps looking on eBay. I now have a beautiful, if inaccurate, dash clock in my P15 because of eBay.

My father has a deluxe hood ornament for his 1954 Ford because he found one on eBay. Paid a pretty penny for it, but before eBay, he'd given up hope of ever having one for his one of a kind 1954 Ford. His deluxe hood ornament is the only one I've ever seen.

I have complained to eBay that we need to be able to read all the negative feedback a user has without having to scroll through all of the "positive" responses. I think the system works well. I have been skunked a few times on a few inexpensive items, but upon looking at the guy's feedback, I should have known better.

I like eBay, and, despite its flaws, I find it to be a benefit to the old car hobby. It sure beats the old days of classified ads in Hemming's.

[james curl]

You can also get skunked on the HAMB site, but unlike e-bay they spell out the skunks name and no longer allow him to post items for sale.

[splat1955]

I've used the bay for a number of years....2001 I think I registered and started selling. I've never not paid for an item....but have gotten items I wasn't happy with...and those ebayers made it right. I've had the typical Non Paying Bidders.....maybe 15 of those in the last 6 years...but then, they didn't get the product either...and so, I had to relist....no biggie.

You can get ripped off anywhere....in any forum. There are a ton of " ebays " out there....there are a ton of car sites......if your either not wise or careful, you are asking to get ripped off. You can get burned by answering an ad in your local newspaper.

I've got some sympathy for james' friend that got burned....but man, wiring money. There is NO bigger clue that you are about to get ripped off than someone asking you to WIRE MONEY! That is like the #1 warning that you get from any site.....Whether it's ebay, a car site.....anywhere...DON'T WIRE A DIME! Man.....you have to have been living in a cave and lack the basic senses to send anyone 10K for anything unseen in person. Unbelievable.

[Normspeed]

Come on Splat, tell us what you REALLY think.

I hope James' friend has some legal recourse. He might look at the bright side...I wish I could even consider wire transferring $10,000 to anyone anytime for any reason.

[PatS....]

Come on Splat, tell us what you REALLY think.

I hope James' friend has some legal recourse. He might look at the bright side...I wish I could even consider wire transferring $10,000 to anyone anytime for any reason.

Yeah, $10,000 would be nice to rub on my body to make all the hurt go away. .

I would deliver the money personally, and collect the car. Even if I couldn't take it home, I would rent a storage facility from a national chain and store it until I could collect it.

I wouldn't leave my $10,000 car with a stranger for a second.

Did I mention I don't trust anyone? A lesson learned the hard way unfortunately:mad:

[BobT-47P15]

One time when I was in college, I sold a guy I didn't really know a 39 Chevy...took half the money and a promise to pay the rest in a month , kept the title, but let him have the car...it ran. Never saw that car again....nor the second half of the money. The good thing was that I was only selling the car for $75.....so the loss was not large. Lesson Learned!!

In the 70s when I was buying 50s cars ... playing with them for a while ... then selling them again for a little profit---if some guy wanted to pay

something down and take the car, that did not happen. I told them they

could make payments, the car would stay put, and I promised not to drive it from that time on. That occurred two or three times and worked out fine.