New member. Dual master conversion on a 50 Plymouth Deluxe. Need a measure of a clevis pin.

[cdnpont]

Hello PD1, first post! Needing just a wee bit of help.

1950 Plymouth Deluxe. The owner I believe is a member here, but thought I'd join.

 

 

Starting out on a dual master conversion using the gutted master-through shaft method. The car is asleep down east and can't get to it till June. But we have a master core to mock up with, but no pedal, shaft, pushrod clevis and through pin.

 

Looking to ballpark size a new spherical end for the adjustable pushrod, just need the diameter of the clevis Pin -5-47-4.

 

 

If someone could put a mic. on a spare they might have at their disposal, it would be so much appreciated!

 

Cheers and thanks, Mark

Edited April 17, 2023 by cdnpont
add image

[Plymouthy Adams]

typically the fastest and easiest method and one that will allow best fit and allow for adjustments is to do in place by cutting the rod and splicing in a piece of metal by welding, therein you have your original adjustment sleeve and jamb nut in place and on the other end the polished ball end of the rod....

[cdnpont]

Thanks for the reply. Appreciate it.

 

It certainly does look like an clever solution using the existing, and is proven.

Problem: We don't have the stock pushrod and clevis on hand. We'd really like to mock it all up ahead of time. We'll be going with a Wilwood tandem remote reservoir master.

 

If we could just find that pin diameter we could still perhaps go the spherical joint route. The joint sizes available appear near infinite.

The plan was to take section of bar stock, drill and tap it both ends for fitting the appropriate Rod end/Pushrod and jamb nuts. 

 

The factory clevis, to my eye looks like it could be just under .50" ID.

[Plymouthy Adams]

unfortunately, I did not measure the pin when I did my modern master upgrade last fall.   Your rod is similar to what mine looks like, adjustable each end if needed.  I used a 2006 Dodge master on mine with a universal dual remote  reservoir,  It was most economical,  removed from a working brake system on a wrecked vehicle, an experiment if being thrifty and keeping it all Mopar....no lid to worry about either and uses the input seals where the original reservoir was in place but stubbed to the reservoir on the firewall.

Edited April 18, 2023 by Plymouthy Adams

[Sam Buchanan]

I just stepped out to the shop and to the best of my ability put calipers on the barely exposed threaded end of the pedal pin. I feel confident the pin is 3/8". I too used the stock ends on a fabbed pushrod and it works fine. I welded nuts on the ends of 4130 tubing to provide adjustment on both ends. This kept the old fittings in original condition in case they were ever needed in a standard installation.

 

Edited April 18, 2023 by Sam Buchanan

[cdnpont]

All these ideas are exactly what I came looking for. Thanks! The images of the rods above were actually copied from the site, and are members ideas only.

 

I have to say that our issue is we have no clevis/pushrod on hand at the moment.

 

I like the 4130 tubing with the welded nuts, light and strong. The fact you've found (thank you!) that the pin is likely close, if not exactly 3/8 (.375") allows for a good selection of Rod ends. I'd like to possibly use a QA1 3/8-24 1.25" long threaded rod end or similar. Will probably use a new grade 9 through bolt, SAE washers and locknut as the connection pedal to rod.

 

Plymouthy, the use of an existing Dodge remote master is commendable. You just can't beat that can you. Did you use a 10 rear and 2 lb front residual? Red/Blue, is it a front disc conversion? I like the idea of an adjustable proportioning valve, we're adding one as well along with 10 lb valves front/back. We're lazy and have bought on line, and are waiting for this Wilwood remote master kit in 1  1/8 bore.

 

 

Here's the hulk I picked up from the bottom of the sea today. The cylinder end cap looks like it should come out no problem. By chance I figure got lucky even finding this used core around here.

I'll post more as I go along with the mockup progression if anyone is interested.

 

 

[Sam Buchanan]

My memory is sorta returning……there is a nut welded on the pedal end of the pushrod and a bolt on the cylinder end.

 

I would prefer an AN6 bolt for the pedal pin, high strength but not brittle.

Edited April 18, 2023 by Sam Buchanan

[Plymouthy Adams]

Sam I think refers to the heavier boss pin that the pedal pivots on which I assume you have on the car already.   I see you got the whole enchilada with Wilwood.  My setup for the brake master rod connection was a bolt only, shouldered and the nut was on the brake pedal bell crank with the nut being self locking...snug with no binding.  Yes I installed the Rustyhope disc bracket and followed along with the recommend brake flex hoses.  As a note, the modern Dodge master was also 1 1/8 bore as factory. All the disc componets are new, 2 lb front and 10 pound rear residuals and I bought them in a set with the proportioning valve included.   I also did the shock relocation to 'de-float' the boat so to speak and used the F1 Ford shock brackets as I found them at the swap meet 2.00 the pair.  How can you go wrong, plated the frame both sides when installing the bracket.   Ride and braking is so much the better.  Brakes worked great stock but only after you cycled them a few times as I do not drive the car often and the drum/shoes would grab the first few uses....I would hold my foot on the pedal till I cleared my property by that time they were acting right...but it was annoying and I think brakes are an area for upgrade.  

Edited April 18, 2023 by Plymouthy Adams

[Sam Buchanan]

4 hours ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

Sam I think refers to the heavier boss pin that the pedal pivots on which I assume you have on the car already. 

 

I was measuring and referring to the bolt that attaches the pushrod eye to the pedal.

Edited April 18, 2023 by Sam Buchanan

[Plymouthy Adams]

my error, the welded nut threw me a bit of a curve as I read it

[Sniper]

11 hours ago, cdnpont said:

1  1/8 bore.

 

I don't think you will be happy with you pedal feel or your braking action.

[cdnpont]

37 minutes ago, Sniper said:

 

I don't think you will be happy with you pedal feel or your braking action.

It's not what I hoped to hear Sniper, but I appreciated the input regardless. We actually debated going smaller, but in the end decided on the same as stock. Worst case, we'll try it, and if too stiff and short of travel... we'll just buy another going down in bore, or reconfigure it all with a power booster. Changing to a dual system was really in the interest of safety in this case, but having the brakes less effective kind of nullifies this doesn't it..

 

Would you have considered a 1" or even 7/8 ?

 

Basically, we will now have one 1 1/8" piston acting on 8 pistons instead of 16 in a split system. 

 

I had made this 1" scenario up a while back trying to understand the effects of this, but just overthunk it (as I always do), gave up and said "lets just stick with the 1 1/8",

 

 

 

 

Edited April 18, 2023 by cdnpont

[cdnpont]

11 hours ago, Sam Buchanan said:

My memory is sorta returning……there is a nut welded on the pedal end of the pushrod and a bolt on the cylinder end.

 

I would prefer an AN6 bolt for the pedal pin, high strength but not brittle.

 

I like the idea of the AN6. Thanks Sam. Now finding the exact size might be tough. 

[Sam Buchanan]

54 minutes ago, cdnpont said:

 

I like the idea of the AN6. Thanks Sam. Now finding the exact size might be tough. 

 

Maybe this will help:

 

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/an6.php

 

I just crawled back under the car, looks like you need a bolt with a 1.5" grip. So that will be an AN6-20 or AN6-21 with drilled shank depending on what assortment of washers you use. The rod end you referenced in an earlier post has the same width (.500) as the standard eye.

 

Here are the AN310-6 castle nuts:

 

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/an310_320.php

Edited April 18, 2023 by Sam Buchanan

[cdnpont]

A Castle nut and cotter would be the best and safest way to go. Thanks. I see you can get the bolt drilled or not.

[Plymouthy Adams]

I went to my pictures from when I did the upgrade and here is a picture of the bolt, return spring plate and the bolt was not as I thought self locking but indeed it was a pinned castle nut......maybe this will help you a bit...grade 8 would suffice and one could drill the hole for the cotter pin.  Allow you to keep moving till you found the exact bolt you want be it aircraft or luck onto a stock setup.   1954 Ply Savoy with Automatic thus the single pedal set up.  

 

  

 

 

Edited April 18, 2023 by Plymouthy Adams

[cdnpont]

Thank you! 

 

Now I have a pretty good idea of the route to take guys, thanks.

I know this seems far too complicated, but I don't have the stock pushrod, If I did this would be all redundant. But what fun would that be?

 

Will use a 3/8 x ? Grip Length AN6 drilled bolt, 2 (or more as req.) AN960 flats and a matching Castle nut. 

A 3/8-24 x 1.25", .375" bore x .50 " wide PTFE HD rod end for my DIY pushrod.

A length of heavy wall 4130 tube with welded on nuts.

A 4"x 3/8-24 grade bolt, head cut off, taken down to a rounded end as a pushrod on the master end.

2, 3/8-24 Jamb nuts.

 

Now, if I can only ball park the brake lever eye width, I can figure the AN6 bolt length at least close using the new rod end width (plus the thickness of the pullback spring retainer clip).

If anyone has access to the underside of one compatible to 1950, (were they the same over many years?)and could measure this, I'd be grateful.

 

 

 

The image is from this site. You might recognise it...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 18, 2023 by cdnpont

[Plymouthy Adams]

place a classified ad, you risk thread deletion if asking for parts on open forum....want ad is free...link to classifieds in on the blue banner top of page.....good luck.  

[cdnpont]

Gotcha! Edited same.

[Plymouthy Adams]

ok...back up time for Bonzo.....the boss that the bolt goes through is 7/8 inch wide....the bolt will need be 7/16th dia...I just got off the mower from cutting the west orchard and thought I could put my hand on a brake lever....I could, I did and the results are as posted.  

 

 

[cdnpont]

Thank you for the info. The bigger size moves the rod end into a less common bore and thread size now.

Maybe, after all, we'll just make a rod using the existing pushrod when we can get to the car...or perhaps still pursue a DIY solution here before we go.

 

The thread on the stock pushrod eye looks 7/16 as well.

 

I can at least have all the right hardware to take down in June. That and the bracket made with the new master mocked up on it.

Thanks guys.

 

 

 

 

 

[Plymouthy Adams]

a walk though a wrecking yard with a wrench or two, tape measure (caliper) and you may find just the items you need...especially if there are some 70-90's cars and light trucks in the mix.  I welded my new length rod using DOM bushing stock I happened to have had on hand...that is heavy duty stuff also and being DOM...easy to slide a bolt with the head cut off for easy welding...of course you can clean the bore of common pipe with a drill and do the same job.

[Sam Buchanan]

Glad Plymouthy joined the discussion, I didn't know the '50 was different dimensions from my '48.

[Plymouthy Adams]

These are a few pictures I just took for your benefit as I decided to drive the 54 about a few miles just to say I did....once back home I ran it upon the lift to see about a noise....looks like I am going to need an isolation pad for the steering sector...get a knock crossing the railroad tracks...I know I know, stay on this side of the tracks.   I chose to mount my master on a bracket I made special for the master and to also bolt direct to the transmission cross member.  

 

 

 

 

Edited April 18, 2023 by Plymouthy Adams

[cdnpont]

I like how you kept the original boot on the master with the new rod passing through it. Convenient to have that crossmember!

 

How thick do you think the spring attaching eye would be? Maybe 1/16th or so?

 

Here's another shot I grabbed at some point from here, as I really liked the super simplicity of this mount. I just wanted to make it more ridgid.

 

Our rough plan is to fab a 2 piece bracket such as seen below. One large hole for the master (centered with the old) and 2 smaller holes on the face to mount it. Inboard hole passing right through the master frame mount box. Another side section welded to the front section, with the 2 mounting holes slotted to accommodate any fore/aft when attaching it to the old master core, and the butting back up to the frame box. We have no measurements to go on, and I'm sure the tolerances are all over. The slotted side holes should take care of that, and we'll drill through the frame box last.

 

The side plate is kind of planned as a mount for the adjustable rear proportioning valve, and the 2, 10lb residuals.