1946 Chrysler starter questions, more help needed please!!

[harmony]

After reading the manual again. It says that after performing that test you gave me, the problem is in the generator or ground circuit. Since the generator isn't connected, that leaves the ground circuit. I have The starter well grounded to the battery.  As well as from the large solenoid  ground post to the large starter post.  I'm not sure where to check next.

I guess I'll just start disassembling the solenoid and clean everything looking for anything odd. Then reassemble it.

[vintage6t]

1 hour ago, harmony said:

I just tried what you suggested by grounding out the other small post directly to the battery. Then I pulled the trigger on the remote starter gizmo and the starter spins fine. So from what you said, it sounds like my coil is ok.  But what should that be telling me as to what the issue is?  According to my wiring diagram, when the starter is installed a wire goes from that small post to the A terminal on the generator. 

Sound's like your starter is fine. From what I've read on this forum in the past, it's something like this: That alternator wire is equivalent to the ground wire you just installed. The difference I think is when the engine starts the alternator connection in simple terms "breaks the path to ground". I don't think it actually breaks the path, I think it probably puts 6v on that relay terminal. With both relay terminals at 6 volts, its coil can't energize. That prevents you from engaging the starter while the engine is running. 

 

I'm not sure what specific problem you're trying to solve at this point.

 

[Dodgeb4ya]

The correct answer!  ^^^

[Dave72dt]

That small coil on the solenoid is not functioning.  Continuity does not necessarily mean it's OK.  The windings may be shorted to each other and as dark as it looks, I'd guess it's let all the smoke out of it at some point.  Does the other small post need to go to ground?  At some point it needs a ground to create the magnetic field to close the points.

[harmony]

9 minutes ago, vintage6t said:

Sound's like your starter is fine. From what I've read on this forum in the past, it's something like this: That alternator wire is equivalent to the ground wire you just installed. The difference I think is when the engine starts the alternator connection in simple terms "breaks the path to ground". I don't think it actually breaks the path, I think it probably puts 6v on that relay terminal. With both relay terminals at 6 volts, its coil can't energize. That prevents you from engaging the starter while the engine is running. 

 

I'm not sure what specific problem you're trying to solve at this point.

 

I'm confused. Because the wiring on my daily driver '48 is the same. I have one wire going from that small post that I just grounded, to the A post on the generator. No ground wire.  

From what you just said, I'm reading that  it's ok for me to permanently leave a wire going from that small post to both ground and the A terminal on the generator?

[vintage6t]

1 minute ago, harmony said:

I'm confused. Because the wiring on my daily driver '48 is the same. I have one wire going from that small post that I just grounded, to the A post on the generator. No ground wire.  

From what you just said, I'm reading that  it's ok for me to permanently leave a wire going from that small post to both ground and the A terminal on the generator?

Nope, I'm saying when you install the starter the connection to the alternator replaces the ground wire you used on the bench. The alternator wire acts as the ground when the starter is installed.

[harmony]

Just now, vintage6t said:

Nope, I'm saying when you install the starter the connection to the alternator replaces the ground wire you used on the bench. The alternator wire acts as the ground when the starter is installed.

Ohhh ok. 

[harmony]

Just now, harmony said:

Ohhh ok. 

I guess I'll just install it and see what happens

[Art Bailey]

Don't know if you addressed the mechanical issues yet. Here's a photo of the starter as it came out of my car, you can see what the bracket to the plunger is supposed to look like.

 

Just like yours, the clevis pin and cotter was replaced with a random bolt and nut. You're gonna need to bash one of your stamped plunger bracket pieces back into shape to look like the other one. Also, that square headed thing embedded in the plunger is threaded for adjustment. I believe the info for proper adjustment is in the shop manual. 

 

 

The yoke shoes need to go back in with the rounded part of the shoe pointing toward the gear.

 

I'm still hunting for a suitable boot. I bought one for a '55 Chev that looked like it might work, but it was too small and ripped immediately. For lube, I put a light amount of white lithium on the plunger and other parts...no idea if this is recommended, but figured it can't be worse than what you see in the first photo. 

 

Edited March 9, 2023 by ratbailey

[harmony]

5 hours ago, Dave72dt said:

That small coil on the solenoid is not functioning.  Continuity does not necessarily mean it's OK.  The windings may be shorted to each other and as dark as it looks, I'd guess it's let all the smoke out of it at some point.  Does the other small post need to go to ground?  At some point it needs a ground to create the magnetic field to close the points.

Looks like it does need to go to ground when doing a bench test. But only then.  But the manual doesn't mention that.

[harmony]

4 hours ago, ratbailey said:

Don't know if you addressed the mechanical issues yet. Here's a photo of the starter as it came out of my car, you can see what the bracket to the plunger is supposed to look like.

 

Just like yours, the clevis pin and cotter was replaced with a random bolt and nut. You're gonna need to bash one of your stamped plunger bracket pieces back into shape to look like the other one. Also, that square headed thing embedded in the plunger is threaded for adjustment. I believe the info for proper adjustment is in the shop manual. 

 

 

The yoke shoes need to go back in with the rounded part of the shoe pointing toward the gear.

 

I'm still hunting for a suitable boot. I bought one for a '55 Chev that looked like it might work, but it was too small and ripped immediately. For lube, I put a light amount of white lithium on the plunger and other parts...no idea if this is recommended, but figured it can't be worse than what you see in the first photo. 

 

Thanks for that reminder about that square stud on the end of the plunger being able to be adjusted.  I remember reading about that in the manual.   Yes I did get those small side brackets hammered back into original shape.  I'm just going to stick with the allan machine screws that were being used.  I'm doubting I'll be taking it to Pebble Beach to be judged anytime soon.   Thanks for that illustration.

[harmony]

I got the solenoid cover back on and the starter mounted in place.  Since I don't have a wealth of knowledge on wiring, I'm going to wire everything on the run engine stand as it would be on the car.  I added up all the wiring and it comes to 53 feet.  I'm thinking maybe #14 would be big enough.  Or should I be going to #12 for some of it?

Edited March 10, 2023 by harmony

[Art Bailey]

12 hours ago, harmony said:

Thanks for that reminder about that square stud on the end of the plunger being able to be adjusted.  I remember reading about that in the manual.   Yes I did get those small side brackets hammered back into original shape.  I'm just going to stick with the allan machine screws that were being used.  I'm doubting I'll be taking it to Pebble Beach to be judged anytime soon.   Thanks for that illustration.

I decided to put the clevis back in there because the because the bolt looked to be wearing out the hole in the yoke lever. My guess is that the bolt was slightly harder material than the yoke lever, and the clevis is probably plain unhardened steel, or at least softer. 98 cents for a Pebble Beach point ain't too bad

Edited March 10, 2023 by ratbailey