Fluid drive shifting sequence peculiarity

[harmony]

I wanted make sure I've crossed all my T's and dotted all my I's before posting this.  I've given it lots of time, as in about 3 years of driving experience.  I've got the old girl running really well.  The carb is functioning perfectly now, and it idles at around 450.  It accelerates well and never coughs or hesitates.  At any speed including top end it runs extremely smooth.

It up shifts exactly as it should and automatically downshifts when it should.

 

So here's what happens as I go through the gears, every single time.

If I start out in first and take it up to a speed that sounds like it's time to shift and then drop the shift lever down into third, all is well and I increase the speed until it sounds like it needs to shift and I let off the gas and then I'm in forth.  If I'm in forth and approaching a hill as I start to loose speed, I put the gas pedal to the floor and it shifts into third.

This is the way I usually drive, by skipping second gear.  With most drivers these days, they are right on my bumper off the lights so I find that by using first I can take off reasonably fast and then I don't really need second.

 

Ok so option B, would be to use first and second.  Here's where it gets interesting.  After going through first, and then letting off the gas and letting it shift into second, then I increase speed until I get to where it sounds like I should shift.  I drop the shift lever down into high gear and now I'm in forth.  Never third.   But if I happen to be on in incline using option B, and forth seems a little sluggish, I can go pedal to metal and now I'm in third.

So the short of it is,,,,, option A,,, first, third, forth  or,,,, option B,,, first, second, forth. 

Is that normal?

I've checked all the contacts and everything checks out to be good, and I've followed the "master tech" trouble shooting info in the "troubleshooting hydraulic transmissions" booklet, using the test light in various ways.  I've pulled the solenoid, governor, and interrupter switch and they all look like new and function as they should on on a bench Test. 

 

I mean I'm fine with the way it shifts.  The only time a guy really needs first gear followed by second gear is if you're pulling out a stump and you want to drag it out to the back 40.  So as I mentioned I pretty much always use first, third and forth.   

[DonaldSmith]

I usually skip the power range, and start in 3rd.  Nobody on my tail.  If I do start off in 1st, I'll skip 2nd. 

 

One time I found that I needed first was at a car show, where the lawn where I was parked was lower than the drive.  I needed first to get over the short but steep slope to the paving..

[JonathanC]

10 hours ago, harmony said:

I wanted make sure I've crossed all my T's and dotted all my I's before posting this.  I've given it lots of time, as in about 3 years of driving experience.  I've got the old girl running really well.  The carb is functioning perfectly now, and it idles at around 450.  It accelerates well and never coughs or hesitates.  At any speed including top end it runs extremely smooth.

It up shifts exactly as it should and automatically downshifts when it should.

 

So here's what happens as I go through the gears, every single time.

If I start out in first and take it up to a speed that sounds like it's time to shift and then drop the shift lever down into third, all is well and I increase the speed until it sounds like it needs to shift and I let off the gas and then I'm in forth.  If I'm in forth and approaching a hill as I start to loose speed, I put the gas pedal to the floor and it shifts into third.

This is the way I usually drive, by skipping second gear.  With most drivers these days, they are right on my bumper off the lights so I find that by using first I can take off reasonably fast and then I don't really need second.

 

Ok so option B, would be to use first and second.  Here's where it gets interesting.  After going through first, and then letting off the gas and letting it shift into second, then I increase speed until I get to where it sounds like I should shift.  I drop the shift lever down into high gear and now I'm in forth.  Never third.   But if I happen to be on in incline using option B, and forth seems a little sluggish, I can go pedal to metal and now I'm in third.

So the short of it is,,,,, option A,,, first, third, forth  or,,,, option B,,, first, second, forth. 

Is that normal?

I've checked all the contacts and everything checks out to be good, and I've followed the "master tech" trouble shooting info in the "troubleshooting hydraulic transmissions" booklet, using the test light in various ways.  I've pulled the solenoid, governor, and interrupter switch and they all look like new and function as they should on on a bench Test. 

 

I mean I'm fine with the way it shifts.  The only time a guy really needs first gear followed by second gear is if you're pulling out a stump and you want to drag it out to the back 40.  So as I mentioned I pretty much always use first, third and forth.   

I believe that is normal and how it works inherently...Chrysler believed that this would be adequate for drivers and encouraged them to just leave it in high and drive in third and fourth most of the time. Less shifting was the point and the whole design philosophy of American cars at that time. TBH, second and third are fairly close together (on the M-5 second is 2.04:1 and third is 1.75:1, near where second would be on a three-speed) so there likely isn't a lot of gain for stepping through them (and requiring the time for another shift).

My car (1941) came with this cardboard sleeve over the driver's side sun visor and similar advice was given in the Chrysler owner's manuals of the M-5/M-6 era...drive around in high and only use low for starting on a steep hill or something that required more oomph.

 

I believe that one thing to be aware of on downhills is that 3rd (and 1st) has no engine braking capability because of the overrun clutch that was used to unload the transmission for the 1/2 or 3/4 shift (it seems to have worked kind of like the overdrives of that era, but as an "underdrive"), so if you want to have engine braking on a downhill you need to go down from 4th to 2nd (which should happen with a direct downshift from High to Low range at about 40-45 mph, but that is probably about as fast as you want to go in that ratio).

Edited March 30, 2022 by Jonathan Campbell
Added info about engine braking

[Doug&Deb]

It’s normal. The trans is basically an under drive over drive. When you use low range from 1st to 2nd then shift to high range you’re simply going from under to over drive. What works for me is to start in 1st then shift into high range before the 2nd gear shift. This goes from 1st to 3rd then I automatically shift to 4th. 

[harmony]

42 minutes ago, Doug&Deb said:

It’s normal. The trans is basically an under drive over drive. When you use low range from 1st to 2nd then shift to high range you’re simply going from under to over drive. What works for me is to start in 1st then shift into high range before the 2nd gear shift. This goes from 1st to 3rd then I automatically shift to 4th. 

I agree.  I read lots the literature and watched a few "back in the day" promotional movies and I've tried just leaving the car in high gear, and it just seems laboured at most times by going back and forth automatically from 3rd to 4th.  I treat it more like a standard.  I even clutch when I come to a stop light and pop it into neutral.  Habits are hard to break after decades of driving standards.  But I do show off the fluid drive feature if I'm taking someone for a drive. I love the facial expressions followed by "what the ,,,,,,  just happened???"  ?

[harmony]

1 hour ago, Jonathan Campbell said:

I believe that is normal and how it works inherently...Chrysler believed that this would be adequate for drivers and encouraged them to just leave it in high and drive in third and fourth most of the time. Less shifting was the point and the whole design philosophy of American cars at that time. TBH, second and third are fairly close together (on the M-5 second is 2.04:1 and third is 1.75:1, near where second would be on a three-speed) so there likely isn't a lot of gain for stepping through them (and requiring the time for another shift).

My car (1941) came with this cardboard sleeve over the driver's side sun visor and similar advice was given in the Chrysler owner's manuals of the M-5/M-6 era...drive around in high and only use low for starting on a steep hill or something that required more oomph.

 

I believe that one thing to be aware of on downhills is that 3rd (and 1st) has no engine braking capability because of the overrun clutch that was used to unload the transmission for the 1/2 or 3/4 shift (it seems to have worked kind of like the overdrives of that era, but as an "underdrive"), so if you want to have engine braking on a downhill you need to go down from 4th to 2nd (which should happen with a direct downshift from High to Low range at about 40-45 mph, but that is probably about as fast as you want to go in that ratio).

That's a very cool visor slip card you have there. 

[greg g]

High range was the driving gear. Low was to be used in low traction conditions like mud, snow, hills and sand.  Leave it in high range and use full throttle to accelerate to traffic speed.  Keep in mind the words of Enzo Ferrari,  "We don't have rear view mirrors, because what'sa behind, she`sa no matter!

[Doug&Deb]

Mostly I drive in high range. I have a left turn with limited visibility coming from work where I use low to get moving quickly.