'53 B-4TA-190 Fire Engine

[Dodgeb4ya]

2 hours ago, E37Bruco said:

I plan to use 00 gauge when I rewire the truck. 

 

DodgeB4ya...battery jumper cables to the starter while it is off the truck won't work? Theres no flywheel resistance. I figured it would need much cca when it's not spinning the motor. 

Yep...jumpers will work off the truck..

Brent shows it well!

[E37Bruco]

9 hours ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

Yep...jumpers will work off the truck..

Brent shows it well!

Which is what I am doing and getting zero response from the starter. Everything internal looks good. Could I be missing something? The communicator, armature, and brushes looks clean and healthy. 

[Dodgeb4ya]

It's possible the contacts inside the starter switch are the issue.

Did you remove the two screws and pull the starter switch? Are the copper contacts clean copper?

You can also see if the starter motor will spin by just touching the negative jumper cable to the starter motor copper contact...by passing the switch.

Did you take the starter apart to inspect it or just remove the band cover to look at the brushes?

And you are positive the cables are good using a fully charged good new or used battery?

These truck starters are pretty good trouble free starters.

Though that fire engine probably has been started more than driven any miles.

 

 

[E37Bruco]

I removed the switch and went directly to the copoer plate. Yes those are clean shiny copper and making contact. 

 

I disassembled the starter completely to inspect it. I'll test it with a good 12v battery. Maybe this 6v battery is shot. I don't have specific gravity tester yet.

[Dodgeb4ya]

You have a good 12 volt? Hook it up...test the starter...just to see...

Did you try to test the starter before taking it apart?

Are you sure the starter is back together correctly?

Just some more items to try/think about.. 

[Brent B3B]

10 minutes ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

You have a good 12 volt? Hook it up...

I agree, All three of the videos I have posted on this thread was using a 12v battery, 

I like to use a 12v to take the possible electric issues out of the equation (why I disconnect the ignition wire from the starter) get it running good off a 12v, then hook up the 6v system on a fresh battery.

has worked for me

[E37Bruco]

1 hour ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

You have a good 12 volt? Hook it up...test the starter...just to see...

Did you try to test the starter before taking it apart?

Are you sure the starter is back together correctly?

Just some more items to try/think about.. 

It did not crank when we first looked at the truck. But this battery is unknown. I'll try it on 12v next time I'm at the firehouse. I assumed even with a weak battery it would spin some. 

[E37Bruco]

Crisis adverted lol starter works great off a 12v. I'd rather replace the battery than the starter. Thanks for that, I can't believe they won't spin with anything but charged. 

 

Im gonna try and get the master cylinder bore diameter next week or so. She's leaking out the bore with pedal release. I know White Post rebuilds, but I'm praying the 1.5" rebuild kit will give me something to test the system with atleast. 

[Brent B3B]

Sweet! You had mentioned using a 12v earlier…. I guess I thought that was what you were doing all along. ?

Lol, would you please fire this up! I am on the edge of my seat over here. 
 

from what I have seen, the brakes can be your biggest budget item (as it should be) but, for me they have always been after 20 or 30yrs sitting 

not the 5 or so years this one has been sitting. 
 

( start it up!! ?)

[E37Bruco]

Lol I can't start it up. The fuel tank is solid rust. And the 2 flex fuel lines are shot. Still not authorized to spend money on it. Trust me, I'm just as much on the edge of my seat. 

 

Ya I heard someone paid $450 on their master cylinder. Even that aside, I'm terrified that I'll have to replace the wheel cylinders or any parts on the brake booster. I can not find a single thing for the brake system on a 3-4 ton pilothouse. Hence I'm trying to locate alternatives.

[Dodgeb4ya]

I have run many cars and trucks including these big truck twin carb engines by gravity fuel feed.

This using a gallon can with nipple and hose feeding into the front carb connection.

Fuel can setting high up on cowl.Fender is not high enough...not enough flow.

Because you cannot yet get complete go ahead yet this will at least get a thrill going seeing it run and make some noise and smoke....and show the audience you are the man for the job!

I like to get the engine running...hear it, listen to it...check oil pressure cold and hot ....watch temp/amp gauges...test the clutch and shift the trans lever..all routine stuff to do.

Then maybe...a very short test drive to see how the vehicle might/ can drive.

This with out brakes...done it many times..first making sure the E- brake works good enough to stop the car/truck..

As for rebuilding the brakes..You can try honing all the cylinders...hopefully not too pitted...but that's a very heavy rig to be driving with marginal brakes..the hardest part of the brakes on that fire truck might/will be the booster.

But worry about that all later.

Fire it up...get a thrill hearing it run again! Do that first...the easy exciting part.

The rest of the work might not be as easy and fun.?

Video it for us when you do fire it up...please!?

 

 

[Brent B3B]

Yeah! ?

Rob and I are not going to let you over think this. ?

use a can like Rob said… will tell you if the pump needs attention or the carb or timing etc. 

( the crowd is chanting…… do it, do it, do it ?)

Edited February 6, 2022 by Brent B3B
Video removed

[E37Bruco]

Well I can't run it on 12v. The ign Coil isn't made for that....right. 

[bkahler]

1 hour ago, E37Bruco said:

Well I can't run it on 12v. The ign Coil isn't made for that....right. 

 

Yes and no.  You can't feed it a straight 12 volts but you can use a ballast resistor to drop the voltage to the coil.

[Dodgeb4ya]

Yes you can run it for some time...10 minutes at a time ...won't hurt it.

I have done it dozens of times on flatheads....

Just pull any 6 volt feeds off the battery cable and starter stud.

You don't want any 12 volt back feeding into the trucks electrical system.

You just want to feed 12 volts to only  the ignition coil.

Just to see if it will fire up and run for a few minutes.

Then go back to the 6 volt battery when you are ok'd to move ahead on the  B4TA project.

Edited February 1, 2022 by Dodgeb4ya

[Brent B3B]

Ok, last video of my 6v positive ground system being ran off 12v battery 

https://youtu.be/kCR6qPUjyYQ

 

hopefully this one is more clear and you can see it only takes one wire from the coil to the battery….. nothing else hooked up.

 

Keep in mind though, don’t just leave the coil wire hooked up to the battery without it running. (Or at least trying to start it) The coil will get hot.

Example = don’t hook it up and the go make yourself a sandwich ?

[Dodgeb4ya]

I did that once...forgot to pull the 12 volt jumper wire off the coil after the engine died...walked away..heard a loud pop about a half hour later.

Went back to re-start the engine.

Top of the coil was blown off?

[PlugUgly]

On 1/13/2022 at 4:39 PM, Dodgeb4ya said:

Ah....

Brent..I love Big Red as is!

I store my Massey in the back...

Yes with the global warming..here especially on the left coast we do need more fire trucks.

Oddly there are two 1951-52 "T" series fire trucks here In the PNW...

One was is up in the LaConner/Mt Vernon area ....the other down in Orting.

The one in LaConner was the Monroe Fair Grounds Fire truck...as I recall a 190" wb truck.

I have not seen either in over 25 years.

Private owners on both trucks.

The one in Orting was occasionally used in their local parade.

I sure do like the chrome grille and look of the 190" wb.

You can see more of these Dodge fire trucks searching google and Flicker Dodge heavy trucks.

The twin screw is the rarest of rare.

There is one some where down in central Oregon.

The guy posted about  it here about 5-10 years ago...needing a trans...and I forgot I had one for it?

Rob, My research shows that my 1952 was originally from the city of Enumclaw. So that would make 3 here in the upper left by my count. Hoping to get mine started soon. Just waiting on the new balance tube to be finished up by my son. Then I need to take a look at the fuel lines as I put it all back together as it almost seems like I have too many. 

[Dodgeb4ya]

That's awesome we have a few of these "Big Boy" Dodge fire trucks here in the Great Northwest.

Now if Brent could get one or two we could have a fire engine party!

Your balance tube job is factory perfect too.

Here is exactly how the fuel lines are supposed to be on a twin carb Moly Block...

Though there are three different styles of fuel pumps....doesn't really change any routing much though.

[PlugUgly]

Thanks, The balance tube was made by my son in his high school metal shop. He still needs to weld the flange on to the tube but then it should be good. I am extremely happy with how its turning out.

[E37Bruco]

Ya I'd have to replace those 2 rubber fuel lines. 

 

Is it sad I know what plug ugly means haha. Is that 52 a 3 ton? 

[PlugUgly]

56 minutes ago, E37Bruco said:

Ya I'd have to replace those 2 rubber fuel lines. 

 

Is it sad I know what plug ugly means haha. Is that 52 a 3 ton? 

Not sad at all that you know what that means. I love running into folks familiar with it. 

 

Yes the 52 is a 3 ton. I'm new to alot of things on this rig, so I am definitely still learning.  I have 2 other fire engines but this Dodge is the newest of them and the one I am least familiar with. The other 2 are a 1948 Ford and a 1950 Chevy.

[E37Bruco]

That's awesome. Have you had to do any brake work on that? The brake system seems to be the one area I'm struggling to locate parts. 

[PlugUgly]

Not yet. So far the brakes seem operational while towing and everything on it was put on hold while I had the intake and exhaust manifolds repaired. Got them back and now its time to start digging in.

[E37Bruco]

Unbolted the master cylinder today. Did I measure the bore correctly? 1 7/8"

 

Anyone have any info on this