another 5spd question

[Young Ed]

Took a little trip to the Upull yard yesterday. Found a tempting dakota. Its a first gen one. Its early enough to still have the 5 bolt wheels. Its a 4cyl 5spd. Now for the sake of my question we are going to ignore the engineering aspects of getting that 5spd to fit. But am I correct to think that the 4cyl would be similarly powered to a flathead 6 and that the rearend would then be the appropriate ratio for an old truck? I could get the tranny rear end and driveshaft for I think about 150. Of course I'd have to remove it myself

[jimwheeldon]

Although the 2.5 is similar in horsepower to the 218 the torque curve and max torque is quite a bit different. The 2.5 is a revver. On the plus side they are a very stout engine and it was made in a turbo version and could easily be converted. Oooh ...I just caught on that you are NOT using the engine..Yeah - The tranny and rear end should be perfect. I sold these brand new and the majority had 355 rear ends ...would be super for the flattie with 5 gears!

[woodscavenger]

Is there a conversion for the flattie to the 5spd from the Dakota?

[Young Ed]

Not that I know of. There is one for the s10 type 5spd but I just gotta be different

[Don Coatney]

Ed;

Sounds interesting. I would think the transmission from a Dakota four banger engine would be stout enough for your flathead. One consideration. Is the transmission case intragal to the bell housing the same as furd rangers or does the transmission bolt up to the bell housing? What are the ratios?

[Young Ed]

Don these tranny's have a separate bellhousing. Its the same one as my v6 dakota. If it handles my v6 and driving style it should survive the flathead I have the ratios at home in my shop manual but I dont recall them off the top of my head.

[Young Ed]

Jim when you were selling these did you ever hear that the 4cyl and v6 had the same tranny? Don what rear end ratio are you running in your p15? 3.55 seems a little too low if the OD from the dakota is still .7:1

[Young Ed]

OK I'm going to reply to my own post again

Per my 94 shop manual the 4 and v6 dakotas used a AX 15 transmission. The ratios in 94 are

First 3.83:1

Second 2.33:1

Third 1.44:1

Forth 1:1

OD .79:1

Lets see what else may be useful. Its a toploader with the shifter in the tranny(no external linkage). Also mentions in removal instructions to remove speedo cable if so equiped. In order for this swap to work I need it to be equiped with one!

[james curl]

I made a post about the New Process 2500 and the New Venture 535 5 speed transmissions which were usaed in the Dodge Dakota pick ups frpm 1987 to 1996 in some form.

[Don Coatney]

Ed;

My differential is 3.55/1. At 70 MPH I am turning about 2200 RPM,s. Fifth in my T-5 is about a 30% reduction. My tires are about 26.5" diameter actual.

[Young Ed]

James my 94 shop manual lists a nv3500 5spd which was used in the v8 dakotas. However this one does not have the removable bellhousing.

Don sounds like that would be pretty close to the same setup then. I would probably only have a 218 or 230 though in front of the tranny. Although we do have some NOS pistons for some sorta long 6 sitting around......

[james curl]

The information on the truck transmission site lists the 3500 as used on Dodge Ram and the 4500 is used in heavy duty diesel pick ups and large trucks. I have a Haynes Dodge Datota Pick Up repair manual and it is very vague on the transmissions. The information that I have came from the truck transmission site.

http://www.motivegear.com/tech_info/tranny_guide/tranny_guide.html

[Young Ed]

Per the site you posted the tranny in my 94 dakota was only used from 92 and up. So I now an not sure what tranny would be in that junkyard truck???

[james curl]

I hope its a New Process 2500 or a New Venture 535 as the bell housing is seperate from the transmission. Saw one on ebay for $550 buy it now but it didn't look like the one on the web site, looks like it bolts to the bell housing from inside the bell housing which would not work with the flat head bell housing as it bolts to the engine behind the flywheel. The bell housing has a web across the front of the bell housing and cannot be stabbed like a open front bell housing with transmission can. The web on the bell housing goes behind the flywheel and must be installed before the flywheel, clutch disc and pressure plate are installed. Then the transmission can be installed.

[Young Ed]

James I think I get what you are saying there. Basically the tranny needs to be able to be removed from the bellhousing with the bellhousing staying attached to the engine right? Also in looking at the front of one of those AX15s the collar around the tranny input looks to be an odd shape which would require an adaptor plate. For how cheap that tranny is at the junkyard I may just go pull it for experimentation.

[james curl]

You might be able to make a 1/4" or 3/8" adapter to bolt to the transmission with ears that would bolt to the flat head bell housing. The flat head bell housing must be installed before the engine or transmission is installed in the car. The bell housing can be installed after the flywheel, clutch disc and pressure plate are installed if the engine is sitting on the floor or a bottom mounted engine stand, then you can drop the bell housing down over the flywheel. You cannot remove the bell housing with the engine installed in the car as I do not think it can be lifted high enouth for the front skirt on the bell housing to clear the flywheel before pulling it back into the interior of the car.

[Young Ed]

I'm hoping I can do this without having to make an adaptor like that. Seems like that would inflate the price of the swap quite a bit. Another bit of good news on the 39-47 truck forum I have been informed that these dakota rear ends fit in the trucks with just a spring pad relocation. Width is a good fit. So at least that part will work.

James you are working on your swap for a car correct? Luckily the truck bellhousings have a lot more surface area to bolt tranny's to.

[greg g]

Does this help you out????

http://www.motivegear.com/tech_info/tranny_guide/tranny_guide.html

[Young Ed]

That's what I was studying last night. No where on there does it say what the 87-91 dakotas got for a 5spd? I even looked through the 4spds in case they only had 4 gears. Sadly when I was at the yard I didn't shift it through all the gears to see how many were there! If you find a front view of the ax15 that I am looking for the front piece looks like it may be sticking out too much.

[greg g]

The other consideration is the diameter of the input shaft bearing retainer. I learned that these are as variable as the input shaft that they support. During my research in to the use of the A833 4 speed OD, I came across several sizes based on application. You don't want on larger than the hole on the bellhousing. Did you consider using this tranny. It features an OD gear after gears similar to the standard three speed.

http://hometown.aol.com/erlihemi/PwrGiant.html

[Young Ed]

Greg I have thought about that one too. Of course the 5spd is more fun If I recall those 4spd ones have external linkage that can be troublesome.