Gemmer steering box

[jerseycj8]

I would like some feedback from those who have rebuilt the gemmer steering boxes.  I have searched and read all the info on this site, and lots of great info.  BUT, I have not seen any direction/feedback as to when the worm, shaft tooth or bushings are considered "needed to be replaced" prior to installing new bearings, seals, gasket and shims.  I did not have the luxury of being able to test the box for steering slop since I bought a parts project.

 

Attached are photos of the worm, shaft tooth and bushing.  The top bushing has a small Nick, but the the shaft really doesn't wiggle.

 

Would love some feedback.  Thanks.

[JBNeal]

Surface conditions of each gear and bushing need to be inspected for scoring, burnishing, pitting, galling, cracking etc to determine if any component has a serious defect.  I was told years ago to drag a fingernail across any observed defect as it wasn't considered serious if it didn't hang...assembled dry, see if anything makes a clicking noise when checking end and side play, this would indicate wear...the worst thing these gearboxes saw was running dry due to a dried out output shaft seal, as no oil could displace moisture and the shiny metal innerds got rusty and degraded rapidly with use...if the output shaft is worn so a new seal won't make enough contact to work properly, switching from 90W to 00 EP or JD cornhead grease works very well as it is less likely to flow out of the seal...as far as minimum/maximum measurements to determine acceptability of components, I never found any so just rebuilt my gearbox with experience from work on similar assemblies to get acceptable results

[jerseycj8]

Thank you JBNeal, appreciate the insight.  So fingernail test on bushing with Nick doesn't pass.  I have to find a local machine shop to fab a new bushing.  Can't seem to find the right ones for a 1.125 shaft anywhere.  The worm and tooth edges and ridges are smooth.  The worm valleys have some very, very minor signs of pitting, but contact appears to be on sides and ridges, not valleys.  If you zoom into the pics, I think you may see that too.

[JBNeal]

Considering the nature of that bushing, if you can buff out any sharp edge to where you can drag a tissue across it and it won't snag, then it should be acceptable...when all of the parts are lubricated, this area basically becomes a pocket of lubricant as there is plenty of surface area to bear the brunt of any loading...

[bkahler]

Even,

 

It's not just pitting that needs to be worried about, it's also how much wear does the worm have.  Even though the worm might be smooth and shiny if it is worn then the sloppiness will still be present in your steering.  I only drove my truck for maybe a grand total of one block before it was parked.  In that short drive I was able to see just how bad the steering was.  The wheel would literally turn almost a quarter turn before the truck would change direction.  It was quite the adventure!

 

Brad

[Dodgeb4ya]

Anywhere the sector or worm contact each other and  have galling or pitting they need to be replaced.

Worn ,pitted, galled sector and worm cause rough ,loose steering and excessive play.

[jerseycj8]

Thank you bkahler and Dodgeb4ya.  So guessing by the pics I posted, no way of telling.  I really don't know about any sloppiness right now because didn't ever experience driving.  Is there anyway of telling on a bench test?

[bkahler]

1 minute ago, jerseycj8 said:

Thank you bkahler and Dodgeb4ya.  So guessing by the pics I posted, no way of telling.  I really don't know about any sloppiness right now because didn't ever experience driving.  Is there anyway of telling on a bench test?

 

If it was assembled you could tell if there was some sloppiness.  I could easily detect that in mine when it it was off the truck.  One of the many reasons I went ahead and bought the kit was I really hate sloppy steering.  I find it extremely annoying!

 

 

[Sharps40]

So.  On a shim adjusted steering box like my 37, you dont know if the worm and sector  are shot untill you pull shims and use the adjust screw.  

 

Essentially undo drag link.   Check play at steering wheel and sector.  Remove a sector shim. Check play again.  

 

Worm is same.  Check, remove shims, adjust screw.  

 

If you cant get it in spec then replace both worm and sector and repeat check, shim, adjust.  

 

Briefly- put yours back together and follow the check and adjust process outlined in the manual.

[gramps1951]

can you still find steering box parts and if so where. love to get mine tighter 

[gramps1951]

23 hours ago, bkahler said:

 

If it was assembled you could tell if there was some sloppiness.  I could easily detect that in mine when it it was off the truck.  One of the many reasons I went ahead and bought the kit was I really hate sloppy steering.  I find it extremely annoying!

 

 

can you let us about this kit and where you got it

[jerseycj8]

Gramps1951 - yes, I came across bkahler's write-up and have contacted that company.  They confirmed part kit referenced is still available.

 

 

[bkahler]

12 hours ago, jerseycj8 said:

Gramps1951 - yes, I came across bkahler's write-up and have contacted that company.  They confirmed part kit referenced is still available.

 

 

I will try and get the worm installed this weekend along with the new sector roller.  I just got done modifying my hydraulic press so that I can handle the long steering shaft.  I had to place it on 8" blocks and add two support angles along the bottom so I could remove the bottom center brace.  The center brace was keeping a long shaft from being placed in the press.

 

Tomorrow I hope to turn the press pin on the lathe that I'll use to push down through the worm.  

 

I'll post the results of the install on my original thread.

 

Sorry it's taken this long.

 

Brad

 

[gramps1951]

I never even thought you could get new worm gears. I was all set on putting in power steering  .  If rebuilt with all new parts and adjusted right is there any play in steering box. In other words should there be some play at the wheel? Thanks Neil

[JBNeal]

Gearboxes by design have some play so binding does not occur as well as allowing for lubrication of contact surfaces...proper adjustments of the gearbox allow for a minimum of play but not for zero play

[jerseycj8]

11 hours ago, bkahler said:

 

I will try and get the worm installed this weekend along with the new sector roller.  I just got done modifying my hydraulic press so that I can handle the long steering shaft.  I had to place it on 8" blocks and add two support angles along the bottom so I could remove the bottom center brace.  The center brace was keeping a long shaft from being placed in the press.

 

Tomorrow I hope to turn the press pin on the lathe that I'll use to push down through the worm.  

 

I'll post the results of the install on my original thread.

 

Sorry it's taken this long.

 

Brad

 

Thanks for the update, please post a pic or two of the process and let me know any issues you come across.  I am hoping to place my order for the rebuild kit from CHS this week, so not that far behind you.  Also, if the press pin isn't too beat up after your use, interested in selling to me?  I don't have a lathe.

[bkahler]

4 hours ago, jerseycj8 said:

Thanks for the update, please post a pic or two of the process and let me know any issues you come across.  I am hoping to place my order for the rebuild kit from CHS this week, so not that far behind you.  Also, if the press pin isn't too beat up after your use, interested in selling to me?  I don't have a lathe.

 

I won't sell it to you, but you can have it

 

 

[John-T-53]

Judging by the photos of the gears in the top post, they look pretty darn good to me. Just install new bushings and seals. 

 

 

[jerseycj8]

With a bored out 318, I think a few hundred $ will be a good investment in making sure manual steering is 100%.  I Agree that worm and tooth dont look that, bad, but dont want to rip apart later and rebuild.

[bkahler]

On 8/27/2020 at 7:29 AM, jerseycj8 said:

Thanks for the update, please post a pic or two of the process and let me know any issues you come across.  I am hoping to place my order for the rebuild kit from CHS this week, so not that far behind you.  Also, if the press pin isn't too beat up after your use, interested in selling to me?  I don't have a lathe.

 

Evan, I updated the CHS Ricardo Cavallero thread with the progress I made on installing their kit.

 

Brad