alignment/cut coils

[Jims50chrysler]

Hey:

This is my first post I hope it is in the right forum.

I have a 50 chrysler windsor with the 6 cylinder three speed standard.

What I was wondering is if someone has a pic of one of these cars with the coils cut and how many coils did you cut. Also does anyone have the procedure for doing a front end alignment on one of these cars.

pictures of this procedure would help as well as I am unsure any alignment shop around here would know anything about anything this old.

thanks in advance

Jim

[greg g]

looks to have been lowered. Owned by a forum member. Prhaps he will chime in wiht his experience.

Welcome to the board. though your specific car doesn't strickley meet the Dodge and Plymouth 46-48 criteria, never fear. There are many folks here with Chryslers and DeSotos. So don't be shy, we're just interested in keeping any old MOPARS on the road.

[Plymouthy Adams]

hey..I think I know that car.....any alignment shop will have info onthat monster and should be able to align it..

CASTER -1 TO +1

CAMBER 0 TO +3/4

TOE 0 TO 1/16

TOE ON TURN OUTER WHEEL 20

TOE ON TURN INNER WHEEL 20 1/2 TO 22 1/2

KINGPIN ANGLE 4 3/4 TO 6

[Normspeed]

Hi Jim, welcome, glad you found the forum. Best on the web. I have a 53 Plym, similar suspension. I took it to a local older Bear alignment shop. Before the lowering, they let a younger tech do the job and it was only so-so. After the lowering I was lucky enough to talk to the one older guy that said he knew these cars. I set an appointment, he did a great job.

[BobT-47P15]

Welcome, Jim.

So, where do you live.......always good to know as there might be someone

else in your neighborhood. You can list your general location in the upper right

corner of the screen. I tend to forget where everyone is.

[splat1955]

Hey Jim....welcome! I'm a fairly new member myself. I've got a '48 Dodge 4 Dr.

It's up on jackstands as we speak. I just cut my springs and am waiting for new spring isolators so I can re-install the springs. Before cutting your springs, make sure you know exactly how high your car sits now and how low ya want to go. Once you know how many inches you need to remove from your coils, your on your way. Don't think of " coils " as what you need to remove from your spring...but think of inches. More often then not, people talk of removing " coils and then find they have cut too much and the car sits lower than they expected.

I talked to Lori at "ESPO springs and things".....you can google that name and find them. They are a wealth of knowledge and carry many of the bushings, springs, suspension parts, etc. for our cars and many others.

Lori explained to me how to measure the amount of spring I wanted to remove to get my car down to where I wanted it. Remember, I got this info from her, I've cut my springs and haven't put them back in yet so I don't kow how close she is to being correct, but I think they are going to be pretty close to exactly what I wanted.

One end of your spring will be flat...on mine it's the top, should be the same for yours. Flip it over and on to a flat surface so it sits on the flat side. Measure from the bottom (the flat end that is now sitting on the floor or workbench) of the spring to the highest point on the top end. That is the total length of your spring. You should already know the amount (in inches) that you want to drop your car. Lets say your springs are 13" total length and let's say you want your car to sit 3" lower for example. The amount in inches you would want to remove from your springs to get the 3" drop is exactly half of 3.....so you'd want to remove 1 1/2 inches from your springs making your springs 11 1/2 inches in total length.

Now, but the tape back inside the spring and up against the side of the spring at the 13" or highest part of your spring and slowly rotate the spring until a part of a coil is at the 11 1/2 mark. Mark your spring there and do the same for the other spring. I believe my springs were 13 1/2 in total length, wanted a 3 " drop and cut them to 12".

Again, I haven't installed mine yet, but I am repeating exactly what Lori from ESPO told me and they've never steered me wrong. Also, as Normspeed suggested to me, take your time and cut maybe half of what you need to cut the first time and alternate between springs. This will help with keeping the springs cool. I also soaked a rag and tied it around the coil, just below where I was cutting so any heat on that side of the cut would sink into the cold rag. Anyway, if you have any questions, about anything, you picked the perfect site to get answers to any questions you might have. Like I said above, I've only been here a couple months or less and I've learned a ton from this great group of guys & gals.

Updated with a pic after springs were re-installed without isolators.

[Jims50chrysler]

Wow! Thanks guys that is exactly what I am looking for, I intend to use caution when cutting the coils as I do want it to be lowered but I do want to drive this car.

I have the suspension on the front apart now and I am cleaning the undercoating off of all the parts, it is hell but I thank whoever did it (Chrysler?) as this car is in unbelievable condition.

Thanks again

Jim

[Jims50chrysler]

Ok I finaly got the drivers side cleaned up and painted , I tried to install the upright into the upper controll arm but the rubbers make it appear to be impossable is there a procedure for doing this or am I not cursing enough

Thanks in advance

Jim

[55 Fargo]

Welcome to the forum Jim, I also have a 47 Chrysler Coupe, with a 3 spd standard trans, no fluid drive, and a flathead 6.

Is yours the fluid drive, with the 3spd trans, what do you have for rear gearing.

I am also in Canada, near Winnipeg, where abouts is Grafton, the only Grafton I have ever heard of until now is in North Dakota..........Fred

[Jims50chrysler]

Hey Fred.

Mine is the 3 speed with the flathead six as well, runs like a dream after I pour a little gas down the carb...fuel pump I think but I will look into that more over the winter, (no rush)

I have been meaning to check out the rear end gears but have not got to that yet hopefully a nice highway gear.

My Grafton is in Ontario...approx 1.5 hours east of Toronto, nice rural area with rolling hills.

I was through Winnipeg (well the bypass) this summer on my way back from the Yukon Looks like a busy city.

Jim

[55 Fargo]

Hi Jim, there is a stamp on the hoghead on your diff, there should be a stamp indicating the gear ratio. I don't think anyone on this forum, has been as unlucky as I, discovered I have a 4.30 rearend on my car, this was somebodies well intentioned idea, but it sucks to have these gears, I do have a 3.54 waitng to be installed. So you also have no fluid drive, mine is also gone, will not be returning to it either...............Fred

[Normspeed]

I used two putty knives to hold the seals in place while I got the upright into position, then pull out the putty knives.

[PatS....]

There is a complete very old Bear alignment set-up at a local second-hand store. There is no manual and I checked with Bear with a model number and they have no record of that number and no-one recalls such a number in the time they have been with the company. They think it would be no newer than mid-fifties.

$100 and it's been there for over a year. I hesitate because of no manual but I may grab it anyway.

[Jims50chrysler]

Fred I will look for the tag tonight I hope that I don't have 4.30 gears

Normspeed I will give the puddy knives a try tonight.

PatS Sure would be nice to find the manual for that alignment setup you wouldn't have to do too many alignments to recover your $100.00

Jim

[Jims50chrysler]

Well I could not find the rear end tag but for what its worth I rotated the driveshaft 1 revolution and the rear tire rotated approx 1.75 revolutions

Normspeed The puddy knives did not work for me (not enough hands) but what I did was tie the rubbers to the upright with electrical ties, tapped the upright into position in the upper controll arm (with a rubber hammer), cut and remove the ties then insert the pivot bolt through everything. worked like a charm.

Now for the part that is slightly embarassing....Fred I am not sure now if I have a 3 speed or fluid drive....I have a colum shift like 3 on the tree, I have a clutch like a standard but when I look at the transmission it appears that there is a couple electrical solinoids on the right side of the transmission which seems to me to be out of place for a standard transmission?

if it is a fluid drive how do I drive this thing???

I thought I could get away without it but ....I am going to order a manual.

Jim

[55 Fargo]

You my friend have a semi auto M6 4 spd tans, with high and low ranges, with a flui drive coupler ahead of it, and it sounds like you have the 3.54 rear end. travelling on the highway at 65 to 70 mph no problem, and cruise forever at 60 mph.

To drive this car, ou simply pu the gear selctor into high range, with your foot onnthe brake, let the clutch out slow, the car will not stall. You then accelerate to about 25 mph, let you rfoot off the gas, and you will hear that famous clunk, as your M6 trans shifts into 4th gear. You then just cruise, when you come to a stop, just use the brake, like an automatic, the car will then cruise up to 25 mph, again let your foot off the gas, and let this baby shift into high. If you are in high, and you floor it, the trans will kick back down, just like an auto maitc. You could dirve all day like this, you only use the clutch when you first start up the car, and are getting ready to roll. Okay opne qaulifier, everything needs to be in good shape to work, the solenoid, governor, kick down, antistall, all the wies and connections. The fluid drive need to have fluid and the trans needs to have lube, now go for a ride and see if it works.........Fred

[Jims50chrysler]

This could explain why I could not find first gear below reverse, to explain reverse was where I thought it should be on a 3 speed standard, I could not find first but I did find what I thought was 2nd (now I am guessing low range) and 3rd (now I am guessing High range) and that also answers the question why did it not stall when I let the clutch out in "3rd"...man that is one intresting transmission. how are they for reliability? (assuming they are in good shape to start)

I won't be able to go for a ride untill I get this front end back together but I am looking forward to going for a decent ride to test this transmission out.

You have made me feel better about the gear ratio, I really enjoy going away to distant shows as opposed to local shows....its not that I even am crazy about car shows anymore but they are a good excuse to go somewhere.

Jim

[55 Fargo]

Jim, these trans if maintained and in decent shape are bullet proof. You want to firstly, make sure the fluid drive ( fluid coupler not trans), is not leaking and has fluid ( universal tractor fluid), it should be drained and filled if possible. The trans M6, uses SAE 10 W non-detergent oil, not sure what the modern alternative is.

Make sure all of the connections, at the solenoid, governor etc, are all in good shape and the connections are tight.

Once the engine is running properly, you want to have it idling at 450 rpm, when warmed up. this will allow the trans to shift automatically,when you take your foot off the gas, if the idle is too high it will not shift into 4th gear in high range or 2nd gear in low range.

Yup are correct, you will not find a 1 st gear spot, pulled back and down, because it does not exist. You have reverse, then push and to the top, is low range, and push and then down is high range.

If everything is functioning you should enjoy your first ride.

What kinda shape is everything in, when was the car driven last...............................Good Luck Fred

[PatS....]

These pages may help:

http://www.imperialclub.com/Repair/Transmission/fluiddrive.htm

http://www.imperialclub.com/Repair/Lit/Master/012A/index.htm

http://www.imperialclub.com/Repair/Lit/Master/012B/index.htm

http://www.imperialclub.com/Repair/Lit/Master/024/index.htm

[Jims50chrysler]

Thanks Fred.

The car is in remarkable shape....the paint on the bottom of the floors is almost as shiney as the paint on top of the car there are three areas of the floor thar need attention, the spare tire well...there is a hole on the left side of the trunk and the plate the pedals come through on the drivers floor requires attention, nothing major. The overall body is good but there is rust around the beltline where the stainless went all the lights work, new exhaust from front to back, interior was redone 15 years or so ago it is faded but ok the headliner is falling down probably due to the weight of the mouse droppings

I think the plates that are on it are from 2001

here are a couple pics..not good ones but the best I have right now.

Thanks PatS I will check those sites out tomorow

Jim

[Normspeed]

Is that the trans that won't hold the car if parked on a grade, like an automatic without park?

[55 Fargo]

Yes thats the type, the ebrake needs to be in good working order to keep these cars from rolling, when parked on a grade