512 cid C series on Dakota chassis- build thread

[Radarsonwheels]

This is the offending uphill run. Shoot all this “aah it’ll be alright” is taking more energy than just fixing it. I just need to raise the hole in the bedside about 1/2” or a little more to get it better than level. It’s on the list.

[Radarsonwheels]

 And I got the 3/8” hard fuel line installed through and above the passenger framerail today so all that’s left to do under the bed is finishing up the fuel system and fuel level sender wire and running brake lines to the back. Then I can start work on the hardwood bed. I can’t wait to hide all this work under the bed and make it look simple and useful again. 

 

The plan right now is five strips of ipe and four stainless center strips. I ordered some undrilled 80” strips- my bed is 79”.  I figure I will see how strong the wood and strips are just laid on there before I decide how many bolts I need and which ones will either interact with the bed floor frame (drill & tap 1/4”/20?) or just have washers to tie them to their neighbors, or if I need a thick strap under them in the middle of the bed to share their strength and not flex. 1” thick ipe should be pretty strong and not want to warp I hope. 

 

I want to get some kind of plan together where the wood can unbolt from the floor frame with 4 bolts and be removed as a unit and I’m also looking at some lifting and tie down type hardware.

 

It won’t be correct like in the book but I want it to look right and last forever.

Edited December 7, 2018 by Radarsonwheels

[dmckeehan503]

Lots of progress.....  getting some great pointers for my build.  Do you happen to have the Moog Spring part numbers you used for the front springs?

[Radarsonwheels]

Moog cc772

 

Lots of people talk about swapping the 4 or 6 cylinder dakota springs for the v8 spec springs. If mopar or their supplier ever made dedicated springs for the v8 they are now discontinued. If you search various years on rockauto under the v8 they don’t even offer springs.

 

I knew my front end was too low and even new v6 springs would be an improvement over rusty 30 year old ones so I crossed my fingers and ordered the moog ones hoping for a little more stiffness and lift. It wasn’t a ton of $ but it was a lot of work- I hate using spring compressors because it can be dangerous and I want to be buried with the teeth and fingers I have now. Plus my spring compressor has a little gauge with it that barely fit the stock v6 coil spring wire diameter and the moog was too thick... used it anyway (carefully!)

 

I was using the compressor style with the threaded block that goes inside the spring and no matter how I tried it the hook fingers would either be in the way and not allow the spring to go into the frame or lca pocket or not grab enough coils to compress the spring enough.

 

The winning technique (first side took two days second side took an hour) was this- take off the bottom block and hooks from the compressor tool and just use the threaded block. Drop the screw down through the shock absorber hole with a big heavy washer. This will allow you to compress the spring at the same time as locating it properly with the rubber damper in the upper pocket. 

 

Then loop a good ratchet strap through a coil near the bottom of the spring and across to the opposite frame rail on the other side of the car. This will keep the spring from launching down, bouncing off the ground, and taking off your jaw on it’s way to your neighbor’s mercedes windshield, while also sucking it into the LCA pocket. 

 

Make sure the end of the spring on the bottom is properly clocked to sit in the recess in the lca. Alternate compressing the spring, tightening the ratchet, and jacking up on the control arm. This will get it 90% there but to pop it home I used a 6’ prybar (ok it was a bedrail haha) to pry the bottom up and in. Of course when it pops home it will scare the crap out of you and make the compressor slip free but the tight ratchet strap is good insurance. 

 

Good luck and I hope I helped!

Edited December 8, 2018 by Radarsonwheels

[Radarsonwheels]

I got three ipe boards my buddy was saving for me today- 1’x1”x8’. Boy they’re heavy! I’m hoping my torquey big block can use the help with traction- no need for a bag of sand in the bed with this heavy bed wood. 

 

My bed is 6’ 7” long by 4’ 6” wide so I need to cut the three boards down and get two more boards. Unfortunately I can only get 10’ lengths and they’re like $80 each! Still not bad on total price for exotic hardwood since 3/5ths was free. I have a couple friends with tablesaws and I have a router and sanders so the tools are covered.

 

I got my stainless hardware in the mail but not the stainless strips yet. I’m still getting my plan of attack ready. I think I’ll fit the side boards around the wheel wells first then sneak up on a good fit side to side with all 5 boards using the bolts hanging down from washers for shims, then mill out the pockets for strips last.  

 

I got stainless 1/4”x20  wide low profile head flat head screws instead of carriage bolts & nylock nuts. The last board will need a helper to install but I won’t have to file a hundred square holes in my strips and no stock punched strips would work in my custom application.

 

The frame I made for my bed floor is not well supported in the middle because I made it so that the floor would float less than 1/2” over the truck framerails. The whole bed is mounted with 4 poly body mounts- my goal was no squeaks or rattles which is the exact opposite of how it was as a survivor farm truck. I’m hoping to use a thick strap under a central row of strip bolts, then use the bed floor frame I made instead of additional crossmembers. It is .120” wall 1” square which is way overkill (I want to occasionally haul a couch but won’t be loading up bessie the moo cow in my hotrod) so I think it will be fine to just drill and tap it for the strip bolts. 

 

Mainly I am counting on the 1” thick ipe to be pretty stable and strong so I can span that unsupported central area and also so I can use less than the factory amount of strip bolts. Four strips will be pretty managable compared to stock too. I plan to do the front and back hold downs through the bed frame, the central strap to stabilize and share strength through the span, and two rows of floating pincher bolts with fender washers underneath. At least that’s the plan for now...

[Radarsonwheels]

Oh and the other thing I’m researching is the wood finish. I know I need to do the waxy endgrain sealer as soon as I cross cut the boards but I’m a little conflicted about the actual finish. Penofin was suggested earlier and it looks super nice but by all internet accounts it loses its beauty in 6 months and will start to gray out after a year. It won’t be much work to powerwash the gray off and re-oil every 9 months or so but I don’t know if I want to commit to that. 

 

It also is pretty stable in it’s gray state so I can just let that happen if I like it? Or since the sun is what kills the color and UV protection I can get away with refinishing without disassembly as the bottoms sides and parts hidden under the strips will both still be protected and not show anyway? 

 

I guess I’ll get the penofin and see how it does

[Los_Control]

I hate the penofin, just garbage every time I got stuck using it .... and embarrassing.

I do like sikkens with cetrol D

If you can find that, it works really well in the south. apply it once and 7 years later it can use another coat.

While penofin is garbage in 6 months.

[Los_Control]

not saying it is cheap, but the results are important. penofin is $30, sikkens with cetol is $60

https://www.amazon.com/Cetol-SRD-Natural-1-Gallon/dp/B001PICI42

[Radarsonwheels]

Thanks Los! I’ll check it out. Here’s a pic of what I’m working with. I just put it in and walked on it- it has a very little flex but not much. It should be good for hauling a harley sportster but maybe not a full dress electraglide.

[Los_Control]

5 minutes ago, Radarsonwheels said:

I just put it in and walked on it- it has a very little flex but not much. It should be good for hauling a harley sportster but maybe not a full dress electraglide.

Of course as a carpenter, I say more support is better.

You may only want to haul sportsters,  then one day you get stuck with a dresser.

 

Same time you are a big boy, I bet if you are not sitting on the dresser, your truck as is will be fine.

What would it take to install one more cross brace? Ipe is strong, has limitations.

If you like it, I love it  

[Radarsonwheels]

Hmm now I’m just more confused- the sikkens has mixed reviews on amazon and elsewhere because they also sell some reduced emissions amd water based versions that suck and dry slowly or not well. I also read that the cetol lasts much much longer but doesn’t age gracefully.

[Los_Control]

I can only add, as a carpenter in Albuquerque New Mexico, I used sikkens for years. It was the only product that held up for me.

I am talking exterior vigas, fences, decks, any exterior wood it did the job.

For maintenance, I come back 5 years later and it looks a little rough, but the finish is still working, I have seen some pieces go 7 years in New Mexico sun.

A few homes I came back every 3 years and brushed on new oil, keep it looking new.

 

The key is the cetol D, sikkens sells a cheaper brand without cetol, and it is equal to penofin.   IMHO

Now I see it appears that sikkens sold off and the link I posted, claims same recipe as sickens but a new name.

 

You kinda want to question why if you had a quality product, why would you offer a crappy product with your name on it?

Sikkens with cetol D I like and stand behind

Sikkens without cetol D is garbage

I can see where bad reviews will come into play if not separating cetol and non cetol.

[Los_Control]

something for you to remember, penofin is oil just like the sikkens.

A gallon of penofin you can apply a new coat every 6 months for years to come, will always look fresh.

A gallon of oil goes a long ways and a pickup bed does not need much.

I just like the sikkens after using both. They both do the same job.

[ggdad1951]

I built an Ipe deck at my old house...used the Penofin..and LOVED it.  I have also built other decks in the area for friends that used it and they loved it as well.  Even after a year it looked good, I reapplied it ever 2 years.

 

 

my old deck:

 

[Los_Control]

1 hour ago, ggdad1951 said:

Even after a year it looked good, I reapplied it ever 2 years.

Fair enough, I think location also has something to do with it. I spent my last 15 years working in New Mexico, A lot of heat and sun.

I now live in west Texas where there is even more heat and sun.

So my comparisons are in extreme conditions. I also sold quality work, customers wanted quality products. They do not want to call me back every 2 years to do the same job over and over.

I needed something that would hold up and last.

 

What I love about oil, you can tell when it is drying up and no longer protecting the wood. Wash the dirt off and apply more.

And honestly, here in town I only have a ace hardware and they sell penofin. I have to order the sikkens or they offered to order it for me.

The penofin may work great in areas where I do not live.

ggdad the deck looks great 

Edited December 11, 2018 by Los_Control

[Todd B]

Wisconsin and Minnesota have bigger hurdles with the extreme weather changes. I think that is harder on wood than just high heat. 

This may be the only time I agree with someone from Minnesota!!

[ggdad1951]

28 minutes ago, Todd B said:

Wisconsin and Minnesota have bigger hurdles with the extreme weather changes. I think that is harder on wood than just high heat. 

This may be the only time I agree with someone from Minnesota!!

 

same here! 

 

Freeze cycles and even heat here (yes we can top 100°F) mean BIG swings in humidity and temp.  This poses a lot of challenges that other parts of the country don't see.  While it may be HOT in some places, it might never get cold.  We can have over a 120°F temp swing in a year.  That is HARD on natural products left in the elements.

 

 

[Los_Control]

my biggest complaint with all the oils is it drying out. In the heat.

And sikkens with cetol d, last the longest. Sikkens sells stain without the cetol d, and it dries out quickly also.

Good chance if penofin had cetol d in it, I would be shouting from the roof tops to use it.

I have no clue what cetol d is 

 

I have worked with wood a lot, here is the first floor of a 2 story addition we built, the vigas are in the living room .... these got sikkens on them.

Not sure if I have anymore photos of it finished, lost a lot over the past 5 years when I got sick.

(dont beat me up over the 2x4 walls, we framed it twice to make the walls 12" thick, this is first layer.)

[Radarsonwheels]

Sounds like I’d be happy with either product. 

 

I’ll have to see if the good cetol is available in PA or what I can get locally. Another factor might be what colors (or ‘clear’ no color) are available. With the red gut I wouldn’t mind going a little toward a warm reddish brown but not ronald mcdonald red. 

 

The local exotic hardwood sawmill spot only had really wide boards so it cost $50 more than I wanted and of course it was only in 10’ pieces so I have some drops to make shelves for my wife or something for xmas. 

 

Looking at all the wood in the bed I have two pieces that are kinda bookmatched and out of the remaining 3 one that’s a little darker than the others. The math works out to 54” wide with 1/4” bolts, 2 skinny boards at 10” and three wide ones at 11”. 

 

I have to get the shovel strips in the mail friday or next week before I can mill out the board corners but I can get the widths lengths and do the reliefs for the wheelwells in the meantime.

 

I am hoping the ipe will be pretty stable and won’t buckle if I butt it right up to the 1/4” bolts I’m using? I plan to rip the center board last to get a comfortably snug but not overly tight side to side fit.

 

I’m thinking about capping the front with a sheetmetal angle and the rear with a more durable chunk of angle iron. The sides I want to just butt to the bedsides and tubs. 

[Los_Control]

I am partial to natural oil. Goes on clear, but the wood ages and gets a natural patina. It is not instant gratification, for example pine, looks white and blah.

But in 6 months it starts to get color, 1 year it is "wow thats pretty cool" couple years down the road, it has a color you cant really duplicate with stain.

 

And the wood you have is already beautiful,  I personally would not try to add color to change it.

And even more important when I was working, I tried to keep everybody using the same natural so it was easier for me doing touch up 

 

Sounds like your plan is fine, leave some room so it can expand/contract with weather, the shovel strips will cover the gaps, drill your holes slightly larger then the bolts so they can expand. When you lock it down tight, then it has a better chance to buckle and crack.

On the edges from factory is a strip of angle attached to the side of bed and the wood slides under it, acts the same as a shovel strip and allows you to leave a gap.

Edited December 11, 2018 by Los_Control

[Radarsonwheels]

Thinking about how to do the rear wear cap. I want the whole slab to be a unit that can be removed or propped up like a hood for a battery change. I plan on four hold down D rings or maybe just three- two in front and a central one in the back for lifting with the hoist. These would bolt to the bed frame for strength.

 

 

I think I have a racing power disconnect on the shelf somewhere that would make a good interruptor for the ground terminal- that way I can have a double secret kill switch and also an emergency way to easily disconnect the tucked away battery in case of fire or maintenance. 

 

The front cap I’m thinking just painted 16g lip of sheetmetal to keep stuff from rolling between the wood and bed, but I don’t know. Hafta see how it will fit with the bed stamping. I could even get nuts and put in a minivan tailgate ram or two and hinge the front...

[RNR1957NYer]

I remain a big fan of your hand sketches! (your build is pretty cool, too!)

[ggdad1951]

24 minutes ago, Radarsonwheels said:

Sounds like I’d be happy with either product. 

 

I’ll have to see if the good cetol is available in PA or what I can get locally. Another factor might be what colors (or ‘clear’ no color) are available. With the red gut I wouldn’t mind going a little toward a warm reddish brown but not ronald mcdonald red. 

 

The local exotic hardwood sawmill spot only had really wide boards so it cost $50 more than I wanted and of course it was only in 10’ pieces so I have some drops to make shelves for my wife or something for xmas. 

 

Looking at all the wood in the bed I have two pieces that are kinda bookmatched and out of the remaining 3 one that’s a little darker than the others. The math works out to 54” wide with 1/4” bolts, 2 skinny boards at 10” and three wide ones at 11”. 

 

I have to get the shovel strips in the mail friday or next week before I can mill out the board corners but I can get the widths lengths and do the reliefs for the wheelwells in the meantime.

 

I am hoping the ipe will be pretty stable and won’t buckle if I butt it right up to the 1/4” bolts I’m using? I plan to rip the center board last to get a comfortably snug but not overly tight side to side fit.

 

I’m thinking about capping the front with a sheetmetal angle and the rear with a more durable chunk of angle iron. The sides I want to just butt to the bedsides and tubs. 

 

you even draw the wood grain...LOL

 

Just bear in mind the Ipe is TOUGH...it chews up saw blades, drill bits and the like.  Carbide is the way to go, knowing it likely will be trash after it's done.  Be careful the Ipe splinters you will find are SMALL, but feel like a iron splinter.

Where did you get your strips from?

[Radarsonwheels]

The strips are from ‘classictruckbeds’ ebay seller. They are polished stainless and probably not correct dodge profile but I’m going for ‘looks right’ not correct. Since I only needed four strips it cost a similar amount from most sellers but this one had 80” strips sold in any amount. Shipping is the killer on the long package.

[Radarsonwheels]

I am conflicted about the 90° edge strips. I don’t want anything that tucks in except maybe on the bed front since I want to be able to remove the bed wood as a unit without disassembly. I don’t mind if it gets tight in humid months but I don’t want buckling, cupping, or gaps that will let anything like a ratchet strap S hook slip between.

 

Maybe if I give 1/16” gaps on either side of my 1/4” bolts and base my gaps on butting the shovel strips into the milled corners of the boards then the 18g strips will flex a little if the boards swell?

 

I don’t mind changing the look from stock but I want it to work. Didn’t brand X trucks not have angle strips or do I have that wrong?

 

Thanks for all the feedback- there are some experienced and passionate woodworkers on here!

Edited December 11, 2018 by Radarsonwheels