My son has started our Scarebird conversation

[YukonJack]

Any updates? Are you happy with the end results?

[medium_jon]

11 minutes ago, YukonJack said:

Any updates? Are you happy with the end results?

We are happy so far. I finally found the replacement flexible brake hose for between the brake light switch and the y/t fitting on the rear axle. That is due here on Friday. This weekend we will put that on. I'm going to have my son do the final two lines on the rear axle. I'll update with photos -- someone wanted a photo of him under the car. 

I have a small leak on one flare fitting at the 2 lb residual valve for the front right brake. So I'll work on that while my son works on the back axle. All the other flares feel really dry. 

I know I need to bleed the system better. The first press on the pedal is soft. Really nice after that first press. 

Thanks for asking @YukonJack

[medium_jon]

We aren't technically done yet, but we got new lines run to the rear brakes on 13 August and I've been busy and haven't been able to get this thread updated. 

I stopped running new lines when we got the junction with the brake light because I had failed to order the flexible hose to the tee connector on the rear axel. For my P20 the replacement hose was part number 10304. I ordered a Raybestos BH10304 from Amazon.com which turned out to be made by some Chinese manufacturer, but at least it fit. And I needed a new hose. My son twisted our old one to get it unscrewed from the fitting on the car and this is what happened to it:

Someone wanted a photo of him under the car so here he is. 

Removing the fitting at the brake switch

Test fitting the line to the rear passenger wheel

Bending the lines around the differential and axle. 

I had made all the brake lines up to the brake switch connector. I had my son make all the lines from that point back. The rear ones were in bad shape. Very rusty. 

We had very good luck with all the flares. Only had one leak on the entire project -- and it was one that I made. Here is part of the tool I used:

The hardest part of using the tool I have is not pushing the fitting too far into the die. I used a putty knife to know when I had pushed far enough. Push too far and the end of the flare can end up being wider than the threaded fitting. 

So, how do they work? Well, I said I wasn't done. I'm going to take it somewhere to have the system bled again. The first press of the pedal will definitely stop the car better than my old drum brakes, but I get much stronger stopping with a second press so I assume I have air in the system. I've checked for leaks and other than the one fitting that leaked a couple of weeks ago (now replaced), I haven't found any leaks. And my fluid level hasn't dropped. And with my remote fillers, I can easily tell if the fluid level dropped. I'll update again after getting that done. 

[HotRodTractor]

I have the same hand hydraulic tool for making flares - it works awesome and makes me wonder why I messed around with the old style hand screw setups for so long.

[medium_jon]

2 minutes ago, HotRodTractor said:

I have the same hand hydraulic tool for making flares - it works awesome and makes me wonder why I messed around with the old style hand screw setups for so long.

@HotRodTractor: Yeah, once I taught my son how to use it, he wanted to make the rest of the flares. There is no substitute for the correct tool. 

[40plyguy]

Who makes that tool? I have the older style and had mixed results with it.

[40plyguy]

I forgot to ask in the previous post. Are you still using the original rear brakes? Thanks

[medium_jon]

@40plyguy : Yes we only replaced the lines to the rear brakes. I didn't feel like tackling the process of pulling the rear drums. And, while I don't know how well the old rear brakes work, I was able to lock them up when adjusting the proportioning valve. So they have power to brake

The tool I bought for flaring was expensive, but it does indeed work very well. 

Mastercool (71475-PRC) Black Universal Hydraulic Flaring Tool Kit 
Link: http://a.co/6aCy1rY

[p24-1953]

Have you had a problem with keeping the dust caps on with the scare bird hubs?

[medium_jon]

@p24-1953 : Yes actually. The driver side one has come loose twice. The first time before I put on a hubcap. The second time was on Saturday before I left town and it was rattling inside of the hubcap. I've not looked at it yet. But we probably drove 100+ miles between the two times. I won't get to it until Labor Day weekend. I know that they aren't inserted to the point of the ridge of the cap, but I haven't figured out why. 

I take it you have experienced this? Any thing I should look for?

[p24-1953]

No solution yet, but mine won't stay on.  I am trying a new one and hope that it will fix the problem.   I did bend out the lip a little in the last one but no luck holding.  I may try the 60+ year old ones again.

Edited August 28, 2017 by p24-1953

[medium_jon]

@p24-1953: My plan was to slightly bend out the metal in 3-4 places at the inner most part of the dust cap. The Scarebird rotors and really nicely made and nothing much to grab ahold of. Likely the caps are too perfect of a fit. Heck turn it into an oval and that too would likely make them stick.  

[Niel Hoback]

Put the cap on a tail pipe expander and make it a bit bigger.

[medium_jon]

6 minutes ago, Niel Hoback said:

Put the cap on a tail pipe expander and make it a bit bigger.

@Niel Hoback: Yeah, that would make sense. Alas, I don't have one -- yet! Maybe my neighbor does. hmm. 

[DJ194950]

Got a piece of pipe that the OD is close ( within 1/2" to the ID of the cap?

Put it in a vise to hold the pipe at 90 degrees to the vice tightly -  slowly/gently take a small hammer to the outer edge of the cap while it is held about 1/8"=1/16" into the pipe and slowly hit  the cap just inside the where the pipe rests against the pipe outside the dust cover while it is held at a ( approx.) 30 degree angle to the pipe. This will expand just the edge slightly and make a tighter fit to the inside of the hub. Then maybe the same tapping the other side just outside of the formed ridge to create a raised ridge. Find a socket that fits the OD of the cap inside the socket as tight as possible and tap the cap into the hub!

Have done this Many/many times at work, seems to have worked good. Hope I have made some sense of this!. 

Another idea, hope to be of help!

DJ

[medium_jon]

2 minutes ago, DJ194950 said:

Hope I have made some sense of this!.

Yes, @DJ194950, I can visualize that. Thanks.

I see you have a driver 1950. Great. We enjoy driving our club coupe

[Pauls_Plymouth]

Jon, from what i see, the new bracket bolts to the original MC, thus the pedals still work, yes?

[Pauls_Plymouth]

What hose did you use, 15, or 17 inch  Cadillac? I am in the middle of this same conversion from scarebird. 

[medium_jon]

@Pauls_Plymouth: thanks for the questions

We used the 15" hoses, but we also moved the connectors to the opposite side of the suspension. Honestly with where they connect, I think the 17" would be fine too. One side can touch the suspension with the steering wheel lockek but during normal turning while driving it has plenty of space. 

Yes, we're using the stock brake pedal, connections, pivots, springs, etc. with how I mounted the new master cylinder. I don't think that the hunk of metal is worth $35, but we don't have the capability to make anything like it and it was very easy to work with -- so, for us, money well spent. 

I've managed to drive all 4 of our vehicles this week and I think our 1950 Plymouth compares nicely. 

1950 P20: braking happens as soon as you touch the pedal and has a reasonably short throw. Not touchy, doesn't just swap from slowing to stopping. Doesn't require much pressure compared to before our Scarebird conversion  The only 'non-power' breaks of our vehicles  

2003 VW New Beatle: lots of free play before slowing. Even application once it kicks in  

2014 Toyota Prius V (wagon) this is a hybrid car and the only 'automatic' here at home. A light light pressure on the brake pedal just kicks in the regenerative generators. Press further and the actual brakes kick in and they are very grabby / touchy. Have to be careful. This is the heaviest of the 4 vehicles we have here. 

2016 Mazda 3. Long pedal travel but really good stopping. A little touchy on the pedals however. 

[Pauls_Plymouth]

I used the same master cylinder as you, but used a universal bracket as its a convertible with X frame. That leaves no room for a longer MC set up. Appreciate your thread, as it helps me make less time wasting decisions. 

[medium_jon]

@Pauls_Plymouth  I'm glad you found parts of it useful. Please post some photos here of how you have the master cylinder mounted. I'm sure others would find it helpful. I hunted for information on adapting the alternative pedals and didn't find much relative to my P20 application, so I chose to keep the original master cylinder as the pedal mount. But I can see where the X frame of the convertible would get in the way. 

[Pauls_Plymouth]

Sure, it came with its own pedal (near identical to orig. pedal) After 2 weeks of measuring, cutting, drilling, more measuring, more cutting - it ws done & worked well. I also used the original pedal - but had to ream out the pivot hole. I had to cut out the original MC bracket from the frame . OK, nothing bigger than 3 mgb pics? How do you put pics on here?  

Edited September 16, 2017 by Pauls_Plymouth
Operator lacking info to do this

[medium_jon]

Glad it worked well in the end. I spent more time just thinking about the MC mounting than actually doing it. 

This is a really good forum - the knowledge that is shared astounds me. I'm not a car guy, so I've a lot of archives. But to keep costs down, they limit image size. My real hobby is photography, so I have lots of tools. I also use an IPhone and a MacOS laptop. The photos upload automatically and I export the ones I want for posting at a file size that works. Straight phone based images won't go unless you crop them first. And current Digital camera image is WAY past this site's limit. 

[JerseyHarold]

If I have a saved photo I want to upload, I first make a copy, then open it with 'Paint'.  Paint allows you to easily resize the image; use the resized image for uploading.  HTH.

[Pauls_Plymouth]

Medium_jon ,  I tried the pics again. It worked. This pic is after i spent 2 weeks on the universal bracket, which i had to cut out the original mounting bracket. . I had extra original MC, looked at it 30 times, cut some of it away, thinking I could mount a wilood MC to it & keep pedal pivouts. It looks feasible , what do you think?

Edited September 16, 2017 by Pauls_Plymouth
Still learning